Kalashnikov still the best?

[Devlin]

Shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act (http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33409)

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used (Kalashnikov) AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."



Some U.S. troops in Iraq have reportedly taken to using AK-47s in preference to the standard-issue M-16. The Cold War-era gun, renowned for its durability and easy handling, is plentiful in Iraq.

Kalashnikov designed his first weapon in 1947 and is still chief constructor at Izhmash arms factory in Izhevsk in the Urals mountains.

The factory's director Vladimir Grodetsky told the news conference that around a billion rifles had been produced around the world using parts of Kalashnikovs or based on the same design, only 10-12 percent of which were made in Russia.

I'd be interested to here from the KevinB's of the world on this one, as this debate has raged on for many years now

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I also seem to remember pictures from the border wars between China and Vietnam back in the late 70s where the Vietnamese army was using captured M16s vice AK47s

 

[NL_engineer]

I remember reading some wear (probably Soldier of Fortune) that the reason the US forces are using AK's is because the Iraqi people don't notice the sound of it as being out of place.  In the same article said that the US forces are not using any old AK; but an American made one that has a rail system and sights similar to the M16/M4.

 

[Baloo]

In the same article said that the US forces are not using any old AK; but an American made one that has a rail system and sights similar to the M16/M4.

In line with S_Baker...I am quite surprised by this, unless it was misinterpreted during the article. I was (still am) unaware that the United States or any company within its contracts manufactured the Automat Kalashnikov, in any variant.

 

[Armymedic]

Just because it is popular and readily available doesn't mean it is the best.

 

[Jungle]

In line with S_Baker...I am quite surprised by this, unless it was misinterpreted during the article. I was (still am) unaware that the United States or any company within its contracts manufactured the Automat Kalashnikov, in any variant.

Look here: http://www.quarterbore.com/kac/sr47.html It is NOT an AK, but a very interesting design...
I don't know the status of the rifle, but they exist.

 

[Big Red]

After the initial invasion there were some troops using the AK out of neccesity.  Many units were tasked with infantry jobs but did not have the weapons to do the patrolling. For example a vehicle crew may have only been allocated 2 M4s and 2 pistols.  I have only ever seen one US soldier using the AK out of preference but he had it tarted up with a Ultimak rail and Eotech.

I carried a variety of AKs for the first 6 months I was in Iraq. They are good weapons and extremely reliable. A M4 is a better weapon and is also reliable if properly maintained.

 

[teddy49]

I have a lot of respect for Mikhail Kalashnikov as a designer.  He's probably the best one to come along since John Moses Browning.  But he's out of his lane on this one.  Most of the US soldiers I see carrying AKs around here, do so because they work intimately with Iraqi forces.  I'm personally issued an East German AK for work here, and it's a fine rifle.  I have complete faith in it.  It's simple, robust, accurate as is practically necessary, and reliable.  That said, the sights, suck, at least until I put on the Ultimak Rail and the EO-Tech.  Ergonomically it's not that great, especially if you're right handed, The ammo and mags weigh a frickin ton, and it doesn't have a bolt hold open.  Which for me is a big thing.  Where the AK excels is it's ability to take neglect and keep on ticking.  The M-4/M-16 series requires, a bit more maintenance, but is as reliable, if taken care of.  The problems of the Viet Nam era are long past.  They simply, are history.  One could go on about other rifles and where they fit into the argument.  A case could probably be made for the FNC, but it would probably lose out due to the fact that it's not nearly as prolific as the other rifles.  But between the AK, M-16 series, and the FAL, you probably have the most significant and best rifles of the post WW2 era.  Pretty much anything designed since, incorporates features of these 3 weapons.

In the end it doesn't matter what you have, as long as it works reliably and can put the bullets where you point them.

 

[NL_engineer]

S_Baker, and Baloo,
I probably misread read or misinterpreted the article.

 

[Armymatters]

Don't forget that the Kalashnikov gas system has been heavily copied and modified by many manufacturers, Western and Eastern Bloc alike. Examples of such copies are the FN's FNC, IMI Galil, Valmet M82, SIG 550, and the numerous Chinese knock-offs and designed patterned off the AK-47.

Mikhail Kalashnikov is somewhat right in saying his design is the best, by looking at how many assault rifles are patterned off his gas system, and how prevalant his design has been in global conflicts. But as other have saided, he had the right idea at the right time, now, other have improved on the design.

 

[Armymedic]

Anyone who has fired a AK-47 knows it is not the best weapon out there. Don't get me wrong...its good, but not the best.

 

[Britney Spears]

Jeeze guys, don't get caught up in the misty eyed elegends, go out and fire one! and after that take it apart and see how it works! It's a well thought out design but it isn't rocket science. Most rifle designs work in more or less the same way, they all require maintainance, and they can all be less or more accurate depending on the age and maintainance state of the weapon. At the end of the day the rifle is just a tool, you are the weapon.

 

[Big Red]

Here's a couple that I used to own.

ETA: underfolders suck.

 

[HItorMiss]

Having just recently (year or less) fired 100-200+ rounds down the the barrel of an AK, I can say that what the AK excels at is the fact that I could almost literally dig my shell scrape with it and then turn around and put rounds down range. Accuracy suffers for the robust design, I think the the best analogy I can remember is that the AK family was design as a machine gun first and a rifle second (note the selector switch positions, Safe, Auto, Repetition) Where as the M16/C7 were designed as Rifles first and a machine gun second.

Were to have a choice I will take my C7/C8 any day of the week over and AK, But I also know that I could still do my job if I had to use an AK.

As for the best, I'll say that the AK was made for illiterate farmers who could be given 3 mags and the AK told how to insert the mag and c.o.c.k it and then run toward the enemy on Auto hoping to suppress rather then kill. Our M16/C7 takes a bit longer to learn to use an maintain, but for that we get a precision (in comparison to the AK) Killing tool.

 

[Armymatters]

Just did some digging on that quote from Mikhail Kalashnikov. It was in response to a Washington Post news clipping that Venezuela canceled a contract from Kalashnikov’s Izhmash factory for 100,000 AK-103 rifles because they were "outdated". He fully stated, as from the following article:

Kalashnikov, who in 1947 invented the prototype of the now extensive Kalashnikov range, said: “The article did not surprise me. It was not the first attempt to besmirch the name of Russian weapons.”
He claimed that even U.S. soldiers preferred the Kalashnikov, which has gone through numerous improvements since the first AK-47 model, to their own M16 rifle.

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1691735&C=europe

 

[Centurian1985]

More stuff:

In terms of a single person having the most influence on modern weapons, Kalashnikov is the hands down winner.  Like an earleir quote said, you can beat a horse to death with the thing and still shoot a pretty good grouping at 200-300 meters.  The things are like the energizer bunny, just going and going...

Ref, posts of US troops using them, yes, that is a common tactic with some 'forward operating forces' so that local experienced (opposition) soldiers would be hearing the familiar AK instead of the tinny M-16 sound of firing if they had to fire a shot or two.   

Ref, a US company producing AK's...hmmm  could be possible, but if its not under official contract, no one will ever admit it.  There are US units armed with Eastern bloc weapons and trained to fight with Eastern bloc weapons...and following that logic who wants an old crappy AK-47, wouldnt you rather fight with a brand new AK? And how will you get it without letting people know you have them? And if you were to insert insurgent forces behind enemy lines would you arm them with M-16s or AK's?  Not so crazy if you think abiut it.... ;D

However, as far as I know, US soldiers do not prefer the AK - they prefer the MP5! ...Or the long-range .50 cal sniper guns, for their 'look cool' factor (they are completely blinded to the difficulty involved in actually doing sniper work).

 

[GO!!!]

I've only read/heard about US troops using captured weapons out of necessity, due to a lack of resup or insufficient numbers of weapons, as stated earlier.

I saw a picture somewhere with the picture of a Chinese conscript after his "indestructable" AK had a breech explosion and sent shrapnel into his head/face.

I've yet to see or hear of that happening with the M16 family.

 

[Big Red]

However, as far as I know, US soldiers do not prefer the AK - they prefer the MP5! ...Or the long-range .50 cal sniper guns, for their 'look cool' factor (they are completely blinded to the difficulty involved in actually doing sniper work).

: Ummm...sure.

 

[Centurian1985]

You doubt? Top two choices among US marines and rangers I worked with...   8)

(Although, yes, too generalized... not ALL US soldiers are blinded to that...)

 

[1feral1]

FACT: US companies even now are manufacturing AKM recivers (yes they are stamped and will go the 7.62 and 5.45 versions), and these are primarily for the civvy market in semi auto. The assault rifle market is even bigger now than it ever was in the USA, and good on 'em for it too!

As for the AK guru himself, ole M.T. Kalashnikov, himself, take a look at the MP43/44, and you'll see where he got his ideas from, that and from other captured German engineers. I rate him as a 2/10, nothing more than a copycat, and way over rated.

After firing 10s of thousands of rds out of AKs (almost every variant, including the 5.56x45mm Chi Com contract rifles for Nigeria and the 5.45 AKS74, etc) over the past 25 yrs (and writing a few articles too), its not that great of a rifle.

So, you can read all you want on it, buy the video and listen to the stories, but unless you have used it, carried it, and get to know it personally, don't believe everything you hear.



Enough said about him, eh.

Wes

EDIT: I am not bagging the AK, and  I am however confident to use and carry this rifle anywhere in any theatre, as it does have its purpose, and every IW has its limitations, you just gotta know the ones with this rifle.