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Kazemi Raped and Tortured - news report

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From the Global website....

Kazemi was tortured and raped
 
John Ward
Canadian Press

March 31, 2005

OTTAWA -- A former Iranian army doctor spoke with clinical coolness Thursday as he methodically recounted a tally of bruises, broken bones and other injuries he says could only have been the result of the deliberate torture and rape of Canadian journalist Zahra Kazemi.

Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew said Dr. Shahram Azam's gruesome account just reinforces Canada's long-held belief that Kazemi's death was no accident, as Iran claims.

"We know that she was murdered and not the victim of an accident,'' the minister said in Toronto.

At an Ottawa news conference earlier, Azam, speaking through an interpreter, recounted in a matter-of-fact way how Kazemi was brought into his Tehran hospital unconscious and on a stretcher on June 27, 2003.

Azam, a former major in the Iranian security force, arrived in Canada on Monday. He fled Iran last summer with his wife and daughter under the guise of seeking medical treatment.

Officials from the Foreign Affairs and Immigration departments interviewed him in Sweden in November and fast-tracked his claim for refugee status.

Reading from notes he said he made when he examined Kazemi, Azam said he found horrendous injuries on the woman , ranging from a broken nose and finger bones to head and body bruises, a ruptured ear drum, lash marks, torn-off fingernails and toenails and feet beaten blue.

He said as a male doctor in a military hospital, he was banned from examining a woman's genitals, but the nurse who did so told him of "brutal damage.''

Prison officials sent her to the hospital saying she was suffering digestive problems and had vomited blood. Azam concluded that the blood had poured down her throat from her smashed nose.

"As a doctor I could see this was caused by torture,'' Azam said.

Kazemi, 54, an Iranian-born dual citizen, was arrested after taking pictures outside a prison in Tehran in June 2003.

Azam saw her four days later.

Iranian officials have said she died after she went on a hunger strike, fainted and struck her head as she fell.

The authorities have at various times acknowledged that Kazemi was murdered by state security officers, but the official explanation is unchanged.

"This was not an accident,'' Pettigrew scoffed.

Azam recited his findings in a calm, detached manner, gesturing to describe the location of some of the worst bruises.

He said a CAT scan that night showed bleeding in the brain and he learned the next day his patient was brain dead. The incident shook him.

"It was the first time I saw a patient brought in from a prison,'' he said. "It was so shocking for me.''

He said he had to come forward to tell his story freely because: "I am a human being.''

Marlys Edwardh, lawyer for the family, said Azam's recollections match the description given by the women's mother, who was allowed to briefly view the body in the hospital.

She said his account also makes it clear the Iranian government has lied about the case from the start.

Kazemi's son, Stephan Hachemi, who has kept his mother's case in the public eye for months, watched expressionless from the audience as Azam delivered his grisly findings.

Hachemi kept his emotions under tight rein as he said he's disappointed with the Canadian government's lack of progress in getting justice for his mother.

"I'm continuing what my mother has started by standing up to the Iranian regime,'' he said.

Edwardh said they have asked Prime Minister Paul Martin's office to go back to the Iranian government and press for a full criminal investigation of the case. Iran put a low-ranking official on trial last year, but he was acquitted after a hearing that was seen as a sham.

Pettigrew said the Iranian justice system failed completely.

"Iran is failing basic human rights and, to Canada, this situation must stop,'' he said.

Edwardh said the government should press for international mediation and compensation for Kazemi's family.

Pettigrew said officials will meet the family's lawyers to discuss all options.

"The family needs answers, Canadians wants answers and we will not stop pursuing this case until justice is rendered,'' he said.

Stockwell Day, the Conservative Foreign Affairs critic, said it's time to get tough with the ``brutish Iranian regime.''

He said the Canadian government should demand that Iran return Kazemi's body and conduct a new trial under international oversight.

If Iran refuses, Canada should recall its ambassador and impose sanctions, he said.

Hachemi said all Canadians have a stake in his mother's case.

"It's everybody's responsibility,'' he said. "It's not a personal matter, it's a national matter, it's an international matter.'' 

© The Canadian Press 2005


http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?id=18ceca54-9994-4796-be71-a7576f6a6755

Sounds pretty brutal......Thoughts?
 
"It's everybody's responsibility,'' he said. "It's not a personal matter, it's a national matter, it's an international matter.'' 
I think he is dead on there. Governments that allow these brutal forms of torture to happen, and do nothing to correct it cannot call themselves civilized. There is no longer a place in this world for that kind of behaviour. Ripping out the finger nails and raping a woman to extract information is down right barbaric, and belongs in the dark ages. Maybe I am reacting with more emotion than logic, but If there is any excuse to topple the Iranian government, this is a very solid one in my book. Sign me up.

The big question is, what is the Canadian government going to do about this? Bets anyone? I got 5 bucks on a big fat 'passive power' approach where they do nothing.

What also irks me, is I am willing to bet the Iranian government will come back and say the Dr. was lying, and was just making up the story so he could escape to Canada. (From what I read from the story the Dr. can prove he was there but has no proof of the woman's condition) I don't know about you, but I buy the story. Why else would the Iranian government refuse to fly this woman's body home.

Sorry for the rant. I don't know about you guys, but I find this whole story deeply upsetting.
 
I say we pull our ambassador, and kick theirs out.  No discussion, nothing, just a big boot in the ass.  We can impose sanctions (I don't know what we get from Iran other than BS and I don't know what we give them) but whatever it is, they have had thier last taste of it.

It is time for Canada to show the world that we take care of our own, and that we are not a push over nation.  It is bad enough that we continue to supply the US with hydro and oil, while they charge duties on our lumber, and the beef don't even get me started on that.

We are not here for the benefit of everyone else, our priority should be look out for number 1..........Fcuk number 2...................

It seems that we are always trying to please number 2 while we neglect number 1.


 
It's a wonder Pettigrew isn't apologizing to Iran for allowing her to leave Canada in the first place.

But, Boyz, what do you really expect?

Responding to the Iranian mullahs would require some sense of moral outrage on the part of our foreign policy establishment.

And mustering any type of outrage - let alone a moral one - seems to be beyond the capability of the sleek and languid sophisticates who are too busy understanding the "complexities" inherent of Iranian theocracy.   (This is the same crowd that couldn't decide if Hezbollah was a terrorist organization.)

There was a time when murdering a country's citizens meant war - think Gordon at Khartoum. But we're a long way past that sort of moral clarity when evil (yes Bush deserves credit for reintroducing the notion) was met by force. (We need to let our former Anglosphere Allies subject the modern day Mahdis to grape shot and gatling gun fire.)

Personally I think we should invade the Iranian embassy and hold the ambassador hostage for 444 days - but that kind of old fashioned aggression would be frowned on by the Fort Pearson panty-waists since it would preclude further invitations to the global multi-lateral cocktail circuit - and that just won't do.

Afterall, what would the Persian Street say if we did something crazy?  

No, Boyz, the mullahs play hard ball, we play softball, in fact, we don't play at all, and once again a Canadian citizen is viciously and brutally violated with nothing more than rhetoric (and scarcely little of that) as a mark of Canadian outrage.

mdh

 
Someone should tell those monkeys that nothing says "Small Penis!" better than raping a prisoner.

Tom
 
Think of her and Bill Sampson, who was imprisoned and tortured in Saudi Arabia the next time you hear the term "Soft Power" being used in any serious discuission about Canada's place in the world.

Soft power means we, as Canadian citizens, are "fair game" anywhere in the world unless we are working in our capacity as soldiers, or under the protection of American forces.
 
An Editorial comment:

"she died after fainting and hitting her head"

If I can be so bold as to offer some advice to my fellow Canadians, it is this: make sure that if you travel overseas you do not cross any lunatic dictatorships. Because it is manifestly clear that our government will not lift one single fucking finger to help you.

The pitiable story of Zahra Kazemi is both stomach-churning and enraging on so many levels: your anger is directed not only against her theocratic torturers, rapists and murderers, but against the effete incompetence of the Canadian government.

    She had a badly broken nose, a smashed eardrum, broken fingers, a crushed toe, missing fingernails and toenails, a severe head injury, signs of flogging, and deep bruising all over her body, he said.

Re-read that for a second. "Missing fingernails and toenails". They were ripped out of her body. Try to imagine how much that hurts.

    An examination by an emergency-room nurse revealed "brutal" damage to Ms. Kazemi's genital area, which the nurse said could only have been the result of violent rape.

Tortured. Raped. Murdered. A Canadian citizen. And what has the government done? Not much. In an original fit of pique, they recalled the Canadian ambassador. Then they sent the ambassador back. Then they recalled the ambassador again. Then they sent the ambassador back. It should be noted that the second time they sent the ambassador back, was after the Canadian government had received incontrovertible evidence that Kazemi had been tortured, raped and murdered.

So, after sitting on that evidence since November, and it having now come to public light, what are they going to do? Nothing.

  At a press conference in Toronto yesterday, Foreign Affairs Minister Pierre Pettigrew brushed aside the calls for a new approach, saying Canada is already doing all it can to seek justice for Ms. Kazemi.

Okay. Now re-read that again. "Canada is already doing all it can to seek justice". What does that mean?

    Economic sanctions by one country alone don't work, Mr. Pettigrew said. And he dismissed the notion of recalling Canada's ambassador. "We need an ambassador there to promote our case," he said.

So, no economic sanctions. No more recalling of the ambassador. So, what's the ambassador going to do? Guess.

    Mr. Pettigrew acknowledged that Canada's ambassador to Iran has not yet discussed Dr. Azam's evidence with the Iranian government. "The diplomatic relations are not yet at that level," he said.

Nice. So the ambassador who is supposed to be "promoting the case"? Isn't doing anything. Why? The relations aren't quite at that level. Excellent. So we keep doing our sad little dance with the dictators. At what point do we look down and see that the blood is pooling around our feet as we waltz across the floor?
http://letitbleed.blogs.com/blog/2005/04/she_died_after_.html
 
Economic sanctions by one country alone don't work, Mr. Pettigrew said. And he dismissed the notion of recalling Canada's ambassador. "We need an ambassador there to promote our case," he said.

Hmmm..what are the Canadian-Economic ties to Iran? I checked the foreign affairs webpage. Looks like we have more to lose than they do in terms of sanctions. No wonder they are dragging their feet on that one. Can't piss off one of your best customers.

http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/middle_east/iran_relations-en.asp
The Canada-Iran commercial relationship is healthy. Iran is frequently Canada's largest export market in the North Africa-Middle East region, with two-way trade in excess of $700 million in 2000. Wheat comprises more than two thirds of our exports to Iran (or roughly $500 million), making Iran one of Canada's largest export markets for wheat globally. The Iranians welcome Canadian commercial interest in Iran (including in the important oil, gas and mining sectors) and would like to see more Iranian exports to Canada.

There is a significant Iranian community in Canada, numbering about 250,000. The community has acted as a bridge for commercial relations between our countries.

So the ambassador who is supposed to be "promoting the case"? Isn't doing anything. Why? The relations aren't quite at that level.

If economic ties are so good between us, why are political ties so poor? Does not make sense to me, so I decided that I am going to write the canadian ambassidor to Iran and ask what exactly he is doing:

The Canadian Embassy
57 Shahid Javad-e-Sarfaraz, Ostad-Motahari Avenue
15868, Tehran, Iran
Telephone: (011 98 21) 873 2623
Fax: (011 98 21) 873-3202
Email: [email protected]

Oh, and the travel advisory for the country doesn't seem to mention anything about risk of being tortured, raped, and beaten to death. Travel is safe in most areas. Phew! I won't have to cancel my vacation to Iran it seems!

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/dest/report-en.asp?country=132000
The security situation in Iran remains stable, although civil disobedience appears to be on the rise. Personal safety risks have not increased. Travel is safe in most areas.

Violent crime has increased but it is not necessarily targeted at Westerners. Travelers have occasionally been victims of petty theft. Avoid displays of affluence and ensure personal belongings, passports, and other travel documents are secure. Travelers should watch for fraudulent plainclothes police officers who may ask to see foreign currency and passports. If approached, politely decline to cooperate, but offer to go to the nearest police station. In recent years, foreigners have been abducted in the vicinity of Bam and in the Sistan-Baluchistan region. In early December 2003, two German tourists and one Irish citizen were kidnapped.
 
The Canada-Iran commercial relationship is healthy. Iran is frequently Canada's largest export market in the North Africa-Middle East region, with two-way trade in excess of $700 million in 2000. Wheat comprises more than two thirds of our exports to Iran (or roughly $500 million), making Iran one of Canada's largest export markets for wheat globally. The Iranians welcome Canadian commercial interest in Iran (including in the important oil, gas and mining sectors) and would like to see more Iranian exports to Canada.

Why would it be so hard to cut off the flow of Canadian wheat? It would only cost 5 "Adscams" to cover the loss to Canadian farmers, and the Iranians could think about our displeasure over supper, with bread and wheat products suddenly priced out of the market for most people. That alone might be the final straw to break the rule of the  Mullahs (unless we somehow think having a bunch of power crazed thugs who think nothing of torturing and murdering Canadian citizens in addition to their nuclear ambitions is a good thing.)
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         
 
{Insert your own comment}  :-X

Canada willing to help Iran, despite Kazemi row
Last Updated Fri, 01 Apr 2005 10:36:41 EST
CBC News

OTTAWA - While publicly denouncing the killing of Zahra Kazemi in July 2003, Canadian officials were also quietly allowing an Iranian government official to visit Canada, according to documents obtained by CBC Radio.

Iran had requested that one of its officials, Seyed Abu Talib Najafi, be briefed on the workings of Canada's new Advance Passenger Information database, designed to identify potential threats to civil aircraft before they board.

According to e-mails obtained under the Access to Information Act, Customs officials were concerned about the visit becoming public. One e-mail said: "We should keep this as low-key as possible."

Two e-mails within Canada Customs suggested there were concerns: "What's our position about the requesting country? ... in view of the current situation with Iran."

Just eight days previously, the Department of Foreign Affairs had recalled Canada's ambassador to Iran because it had refused Canadian inquiries about the Zahra Kazemi case. Kazemi, a Montreal-based photojournalist, was beaten to death after being arrested for photographing a Tehran prison riot. Iran maintains her death was accidental.

Foreign Affairs told Customs officials its only concern was "whether [Najafi] will be able to get his visa in time."

In dozens of e-mails, there is no mention of Kazemi, and no one questions why Canada would help Iran, considered by some to be a brutal police state. As well, no one asks why a government with a known track record of sponsoring terrorist attacks might want information about a new passenger security screening procedure.

With just days to go before the visit, a flurry of e-mails reveals that there were last-minute concerns about Najafi's identity. Canada believed his first name was Nasser â “ only after he landed in Canada did they learn his actual name.

And in an e-mail sent after Najafi was already en route to Canada, Chrystiane Roy, Iran desk officer at Foreign Affairs, informed Customs that if Najafi already had a visa, "it would be too late to do any screening."

In the end, it was only the huge North American blackout of Aug. 14, 2003 that prevented the briefing session.

Instead, Rachelle May, now acting director general of the Canada Border Services Agency, took Najafi across the street for a coffee. In a report sent afterwards to Foreign Affairs, she writes, "He showed interest in Advanced Passenger Information."

She adds: "He was pleased that I took the time to meet him."

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/01/iranofficial-050401.html
 
And our government's dealings with the Iranian dictators surprises anyone?  This country (and the liberals in particular) has a long history of willfully ignoring dangerous and sadistic regimes.  Anyone remember Mackenzie King's assessment of Hitler in 1937?

"My sizing up of the man as I sat and talked with him was that he is really one who truly loves his fellow-men, and his country, and would make any sacrifice for their good." (Diary, June 29, 1937)
Hitler appeared to be "a man of deep sincerity and a genuine patriot." (Diary, June 29, 1937)
King saw similarities between himself and Hitler, writing, "As I talked with him, I could not but think of Joan of Arc. He is distinctly a mystic .... He is a teetotaller and also a vegetarian; is unmarried, abstemist in all his habits and ways." (Diary, June 29, 1937)

And lest you think comparing the Iranian regime to the nazis a bit peculiar, I would just like to point out that both were/are supported by an organisation of murderers and thugs, the SS in one case and the Revolutionary Guards in the other; both are ideologically based, one on Aryan mysticism, the other on Islamic fanaticism (little real difference between the two) and both regimes have a hatred of Jews.



 
Didnt Mackenzie King also take political advice from his dog and dead mother??

Although I in no way condone torture or murder of prisoners (she in no way deserved what is alleged to have happened to her), I have to be devils advocate and say that Kazemi knew the laws of Iran, knew the culture and yet still chose to do what she did.   While it may seem frivolous to us to take pictures of a government facility, over there it is a crime, and that is even stated on the DFAIT website.   Canada should demand of the Irainian government the prosecution of those involved, or at the very least a public apology from the government.

As for Sampson, I was sure I read somewhere that he renounced his Canadian citizenship for his UK one...what did we owe him.



                                                                                   TRAVEL REPORT



Iran

6. LOCAL LAWS AND CUSTOMS

You are subject to local laws. A serious violation may lead to a jail or a death sentence. The jail sentence will be served in local prisons.

Canadians arrested or detained have the right to contact the responsible Canadian government office (embassy, high commission, etc.) listed below. Arresting officials have a responsibility to assist you in doing so. Canadian consular officials can provide a list of local lawyers upon request.

Canadians should be aware that capital punishment can be expected for persons found guilty of possession, use, or trafficking of drugs, those who challenge the Islamic faith or attempt to convert Muslims to another religion, and those who engage in sexual relations outside marriage. Former Muslims who have converted to other religions have been subject to arrest and prosecution.

It is prohibited to import alcohol or pork products.

Iran is an Islamic theocracy. Islamic practices and beliefs are closely adhered to in the country's customs, laws, and regulations. Common sense and discretion should be exercised in dress and behaviour. Visitors should dress conservatively (e.g., women should cover their head with a scarf and also cover their arms and legs). Respect religious and social traditions to avoid offending local sensitivities. Playing any kind of music in public, including in cars, is prohibited by law.

During the lunar month of Ramadan (the ninth month of the Muslim calendar), visitors should refrain from drinking, eating, and smoking in public between sunrise and sunset. The Islamic year is based on the lunar cycle, consisting of 12 months of 29 or 30 days each, totalling 353 or 354 days. Each month begins at the sighting of the new moon. Ramadan began on October 15, 2004.

Canadians with Iranian nationality should be aware that, unlike Canada, Iran does not recognize dual nationality. Dual nationals have to enter Iran using their Iranian passports. The Canadian Embassy's ability to assist dual nationals is very limited. Naturalized Canadians who are Iranian by birth should be aware that Iranian authorities could take an interest in them for reasons related to politics, security, property, or professional background. The following problems have occurred:

a) If a dual national enters Iran with a transit pass issued by an Iranian embassy abroad, it may take anywhere from one to 12 months to obtain an Iranian passport to exit Iran or return to Canada.

b) If a male dual national has not completed his Iranian military service, he will be required to do so. Iranians who reside outside Iran are temporarily exempted from military service while abroad and are permitted to visit Iran once a year for a period limited to three months. Dual nationals ignoring this limitation may be prohibited from leaving Iran.

c) Iranian immigration authorities have been known to confiscate the foreign passports (including Canadian) of Iranian dual nationals.

d) Canadian women married to Iranian nationals who register their marriage with the Iranian authorities (e.g., the Iranian Embassy in Ottawa) automatically become Iranian citizens and are deemed to be Iranian citizens according to Iranian law, even if they travel to Iran on a Canadian passport with an Iranian visa. Iranian immigration authorities often impound the Canadian passports, particularly those of women who intend to reside in Iran. Women who are considered to be Iranian by marriage must have their husband's permission to travel and to leave Iran, even if they intend to use their Canadian passport.

e) Canadian children whose father is an Iranian national may also face difficulties while in Iran (e.g., according to Iranian law, children of a male Iranian national, including Iranian/Canadian dual nationals, are in the sole custody of their father). The father's permission is required for the children to leave Iran.

f) Iranian authorities sometimes place an observation in Iranian passports limiting the bearer to one trip to Iran per year. Dual nationals using an Iranian passport to enter Iran should take note of this limitation as it will be strictly enforced. Canadians who have exceeded this limitation have been prohibited from leaving Iran, separating them from their family in Canada. This situation seems to be more frequent for dual nationals who have not completed their military service in Iran.

Homosexuality is a criminal offence. Those convicted may be sentenced to lashing, a prison sentence, and/or death.

Photography of government and military installations, such as ports and airports and their surroundings, is strictly prohibited. Such sites are not always identifiable. Refrain from taking pictures whenever you are not at a recognized tourist site. When in doubt, ask for information.




 
chaos75 said:
As for Sampson, I was sure I read somewhere that he renounced his Canadian citizenship for his UK one...what did we owe him.
                                                                                   

I believe he renounced his citizenship after he discovered our government had done nothing at all to secure his release. BTW, he was released as part of a package deal between the Sauds and the Americans; a bit of hard power added to the equation and look at the different outcome!
 
Chaos raises a good point - we wouldn't be too upset if a Canadian was executed for trafficking in heroin in Singapore.

That being said, was Kazemi properly put on trial according to Iranian law?  If she wasn't, I think Canada should pull our embassy and not tolerate the state-sanctioned murder of one of our citizens, regardless of her offence.
 
That being said, was Kazemi properly put on trial according to Iranian law?
No, She was arrested for taking pictures of a prison, and then died durring captivity. There is no mention of a trial in any of the sources I have seen.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kazemi/
Iranian-Canadian photojournalist Zahra Kazemi died in Iranian custody on July 11, 2003, almost three weeks after she was arrested for taking pictures outside a prison during a student protest in Tehran.
 
Chaos, Infanteer, look at it this way: what do you think the worldwide (let alone Canadian government) moral posturing would be like if this had occured at Abu Ghraib?
 
I do this with some trepidation, but:

What can Canada do? Even if we had a powerful military, what could we do to Iran? Most of the people saying "do something" are talking out of their collective posteriors. The slagging of our diplomats only shows a lack of understanding of the environment in which they work.

I do think there are things to be done in the Kazemi case, but unfortunately for you lot it isn't likely to be public. I hate to break it to you, but publically poking another nation's government in the eye is nothing more than a salve to our own people. If you think the Iranians (or insert your totalitarian barbaric government here) give a fig you're living in a dream world. Great. The side benefit is that other Canadians could suffer.

I'll also point out the dual citizenship problem, along with the problems that arise from other nations' tendency to ignore obtained citizenship (you were born Syrian, therefore you remain Syrian). As far as the Iranians are concerned Ms Kazemi was Iranian. It doesn't excuse her torture and murder, but in their minds it means Canadian interference is BS.

Let us not forget that our role begins when diplomacy fails, amd even Churchill said "it is better to jaw-jaw than to war-war."

Acorn
 
What can Canada do? Even if we had a powerful military, what could we do to Iran? Most of the people saying "do something" are talking out of their collective posteriors. The slagging of our diplomats only shows a lack of understanding of the environment in which they work.

I do think there are things to be done in the Kazemi case, but unfortunately for you lot it isn't likely to be public. I hate to break it to you, but publically poking another nation's government in the eye is nothing more than a salve to our own people. If you think the Iranians (or insert your totalitarian barbaric government here) give a fig you're living in a dream world. Great. The side benefit is that other Canadians could suffer.

Acron, I can certainly see your position. But in my mind doing something (effective or symbolic) is a hell of a lot better than doing nothing about it. Is Canada really that weak we can roll over an do nothing to protect our citizens abroad?  I think it is pretty obvious that the Iranians don't give one care as to this, as was clearly demonstrated as this event first unfolded.

If Canada does anything at all, I am sure it will be held in closed meetings. But is the government going to do anything? I look to the William Sampson case where the government took credit for doing nothing, and was quite pleased about it. 

What kind of diplomacy is bending over and letting the Iranians do whatever they feel like without significant repercussions?

 
Canada seems incapable of protecting it's citizens abroad, particularly in countries like Iran.
Canada, despite what Canadian government bureaucrats have stated has no signifcant reason
to do business or maintain any links with Iran whatever. Friends from Israel and the U.S. have
pointed out that Iran (and to a lesser extent, Syria) is behind the violence directed against
Israel, but the Iranian Mullahs fear direct confrontation with the IDF, who would promptly
cause many Iranians to acheive ultimate martydom. About the best we can hope for from the
current minority in Ottawa, is for the Minister of International Affairs to stand in front of the
Iranian Embassey in Ottawa, and stick his tongue out. A country that cannot protect it's
citizens or enforce hard edged sanctions and legal actions against these outrageous governments
risks loosing all respect in the international sector, hard to restore, once gone. MacLeod
 
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