Kick starting a "closed" file

[Springroll]

Ok, there is a bit of a story behind this, so bear with me.

I applied for CE on July 23 2005.
Everything was done on my application and I also completed my CFAT, Med and Interview with ease.
I changed my trade after some careful considerations and decided to go pRes IntOp. I booked my PT test and failed the push ups section.
I was going to rebook the test, but my husband was diagnosed with a rare disorder and I decided he should take priority, so I did not rebook. That was only in January of this year.

After some long chats the last few days with my husband, I decided that I was going to go Reg Navy, for reasons I don't feel like going into on here. I called up the recruiting center here in Halifax and was told my file was open. Then I get a call from the MCC there about 5 minutes later and was told that on March 3rd my file was closed. The MCC told me my new order of business is that he wants me to pass my PT test first. Once completed then I have to reapply all over again, new references, the works. When I told him that my file has not been open for a year yet, he told me that I would have to be in the CF by July 23rd of this year for any of it to count, and the chances of that are slim to none.

Is there a way I can get this going on the fast track?
I also don't want to bug all my references again. They were hard to come up with in the first place, and either asking them again to do it, or finding new ones, may prove to be more than difficult.

Any help with this is very welcome!

 

[kincanucks]

Do what the CFRC wants you to do or don't apply.  It is as simple as that.  Updated references, a new employment application form and a new security form is not the 'works'.  Good luck.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/application_form_e.aspx

 

[Springroll]

He wants me to redo everything though....including all the testing again.
I could understand the PT test, but the other tests are no more than 6 mths old....

Meh, the application is filled out and ready to go, again, a call out to the booking office to book my pt test, and now I have to find some new references...and the CF wonders why people don't want to join. They make them go through the hoops all over again, or they take their time in processing things.

I figured there would have been an easier way. Not trying to sneak in, since they have done everything already and have records of it, but to go through all of this again in less than a year is ridiculous.

 

[kincanucks]

CFAT - no, unless you don't meet the minimum for the trade you now want.

Medical -  should be just an update unless something has changed in your medical fitness.

Interview - of course.

Physical -  you failed it so of course.

 

[muskrat89]

They make them go through the hoops all over again, or they take their time in processing things.

Kinda makes combat seem easy, doesn't it?


Anyhoo, asked and answered.

 

[Scott]

He wants me to redo everything though....including all the testing again.
I could understand the PT test, but the other tests are no more than 6 mths old....

Why not just do it all and get it over with? You may do better on some sections considering you've been through it once already. I know guys that would have killed for a second chance at the testing, etc.

Meh, the application is filled out and ready to go, again, a call out to the booking office to book my pt test, and now I have to find some new references...and the CF wonders why people don't want to join. They make them go through the hoops all over again, or they take their time in processing things.

Now that is the dumbest statement I have seen on this board in a long time. What makes you think that you can just walk in and be accepted as CDS because "you have the desire"? Get off your high horse. There are guys on this board who have been waiting YEARS to get the call, what do you have to whine about? It's real simple, if you want to work at McDonald's then you must apply and meet their criteria, the same goes for the CF only on a bigger scale. The bottom line is that if you are sick of "going through the hoops" then PFO. 60,000 +/- full time employees and they're supposed to drop everything for you?

I figured there would have been an easier way. Not trying to sneak in, since they have done everything already and have records of it, but to go through all of this again in less than a year is ridiculous.

If you are looking for an easier way then you are trying to sneak in. Who are you to call it ridiculous? Do you have the TI in a recruiting slot to say that? I think not. Do not expect the military to bend over backwards for you, they will not and should not.

It amazes me how much peoplet hink that they can just walk into the CFRC and be employed the next day. Like they are the ones doing the CF a big favour by applying.

 

[Scott]

In the interest of debate this topic is being unlocked at the request of a few members. Some feel that not enough has been said so we'll give it a shot. This is the reply to my last post I received yesterday via PM (Used with the author's permission) The text in italics would be quotes from my post above.

Why not just do it all and get it over with? You may do better on some sections considering you've been through it once already. I know guys that would have killed for a second chance at the testing, etc.

I did great on all my testing. Qual'ed for every trade out there available for an unskilled NCM, why should the CF pay yet again to get me to redo it all? I am having to pay for my retest for my PT, so why not just continue from there? I only applied July 23rd of 2005...not even a year ago.

Now that is the dumbest statement I have seen on this board in a long time. What makes you think that you can just walk in and be accepted as CDS because "you have the desire"? Get off your high horse. There are guys on this board who have been waiting YEARS to get the call, what do you have to whine about? It's real simple, if you want to work at McDonald's then you must apply and meet their criteria, the same goes for the CF only on a bigger scale. The bottom line is that if you are sick of "going through the hoops" then PFO. 60,000 +/- full time employees and they're supposed to drop everything for you?

I have jumped through all their hoops, and all that was left to do was my PT....

If you are looking for an easier way then you are trying to sneak in. Who are you to call it ridiculous? Do you have the TI in a recruiting slot to say that? I think not. Do not expect the military to bend over backwards for you, they will not and should not.

Like I said, not trying to sneak in. EVERYTHING has already been done, EXCEPT I had to redo the PT. CFAT, interview, medical, security screening.....everything else was done.

It amazes me how much people think that they can just walk into the CFRC and be employed the next day. Like they are the ones doing the CF a big favour by applying.

Well, without people applying and signing, there would be no CF, now would there? I am not expecting to be employed by them tomorrow, but I do expect not to be jacked around. I know I am not the only one on this forum who has been, since after posting this board I have a received a couple replies from others who have had a similar experience.

I also received this in my inbox (Again used with the author's permission)

Thank you for posting in the "kick start a file" thread. I wanted to post right after Springroll but it was locked before I could finish typing my reply.

I wanted to post that I am going through the "redo" everything process as well, but I have a positive outlook on it. It is my fault I left the recruiting process last year, and no one is wasting my time. If anything, I wasted the recruiters time last spring. This whole "I want an easy way in" idea is sad.

Anyways.. thanks for responding.

Kelita

Hmmm, I'm not the only one thinking along certain lines. Anyway, now it's my turn again. My rebuttal to Springroll: (Some information provided by CFRC Officer)

I did great on all my testing. Qual'ed for every trade out there available for an unskilled NCM, why should the CF pay yet again to get me to redo it all? I am having to pay for my retest for my PT, so why not just continue from there? I only applied July 23rd of 2005...not even a year ago.

BECAUSE THEY SAID SO! You do realize that you are applying to them, right? It's not the other way around. I did make that clear, did I not? You'll do what they ask or you'll pack up and leave, it's that simple. Do you know how long it will take to get you in? Because if you got all your stuff done on July 23rd of last year then, in theory, some of the things required of you will hit their expiry date before you are enrolled. And I am sure that the last thing any recruiter would want is more whining so why not get it done now?

Expiry's for parts of the recruiting process:
CFAT -  no expiry and there is no need to rewrite unless the applicant doesn't meet the trade they now want.
Interview - usually one year but if they are going for a new trade then a new interview will be required.
Physical fitness - 6 months for a off the street applicant.
Letters of reference - one year.
Medical -  normally one year unless something has happened.  In any case the applicant will be required to answer the medical questionnaire (Part I) again.

Getting clearer now? Maybe by having you do some things over again you will not have to be held up later. I am sure that these guys know what they're doing, or do you have some experience in this that you have failed to enlighten us with?

So what would you rather? To be held up now or held up just as you are about to get an offer, possibly miss your window for this year and have more to gripe about?

I have jumped through all their hoops, and all that was left to do was my PT....

That is a poor attitude, why do you want the job again? Nevermind. Obviously you haven't done all they want and the decision really isn't yours. What are you going to do at your BMQ when they ask you to scrub the brass? Are you going to tell them that you've already done that and shouldn't have to do it again? Of course not....  :

Like I said, not trying to sneak in. EVERYTHING has already been done, EXCEPT I had to redo the PT. CFAT, interview, medical, security screening.....everything else was done.

Not trying to sneak in? But you did say you thought there was an easier way. Who tells you this stuff? See my reply above for why you may have to some more things over, it makes perfect sense if you think about it.

Well, without people applying and signing, there would be no CF, now would there? I am not expecting to be employed by them tomorrow, but I do expect not to be jacked around. I know I am not the only one on this forum who has been, since after posting this board I have a received a couple replies from others who have had a similar experience.

I don't think you are getting jacked around and think you ought to wind your neck in a bit with that statement, who is going to employ you with an attitude like that? And thank you for pointing out to dumb old me that without applicants the CF would not survive, I needed that refresher  : What you continually fail to realize is that you are applying to them!! They have zero obligation to you, their obligation is to the organization - to ensure the organization gets the best.

The Recruiters don't just deal with you, sunshine, they have a full plate. When I asked for what they use to evaluate when someone reapplies I got these points:

We ask ourselves a few things when someone reapplies:

- how long has it been and what has expired and what recruiting forms have changed and what can we salvage from the previous processing?
- what is the applicant applying for now and does that applicant meet the requirements for what they what now?
- what is our processing schedule like now, what has priority and when can we get the applicant in?

After all this a decision is made on what has to happen to an applicant's file.  Of course in explaining this to an applicant they only hear what they want to hear and when they repeat it to someone else it is usually wrong.

NOTE THE LAST LINE!

My advice: lose the chip on your shoulder of someone who's been so hard done by and if you want in then do what they ask of you. Over the course of a 25 year career this will seem like peanuts. Or, pull the pin.

Thread unlocked. Keep it civil and relevant or it goes bye-bye again.

 

[Springroll]

Ok, here are the facts:

Application Date: July 19, 2005(I was wrong on the July 23rd date...my bad), First Contact by CFRC: July 25, 2005, Aptitude completed: August 22, 2005, Med completed: September 28, 2005, Interview completed: September 28, 2005, PT Test completed: October 28, 2005...need to retake, failed the push ups. Rebooked for December and had to cancel. My husband was diagnosed in January and I will totally admit that my CF application at that point was the last thing on my mind. I came back to the forums March 10th, got some motivation from a wonderful person on here, and called the CFRC March 14th. Was told by the Sgt that my file was still opened and whe would go grab it. Got a call 10 minutes later from the MCC saying that my file was closed March 3rd and that i would have to rebook my PT test and pass it, then we would start the whole process again, including the testing.

I am not happy about having to start form scratch again, for obvious reasons, but I am still doing what they require of me. I called up bookings on the 14th and they returned my call yesterday and now I have my retest on April 5th. My application(which has not changed except for what I am applying for) is filled out and ready to go, and now I am just waiting for a call back from the CFRC to see if I have to get my references again, or if they will just use the ones in my file. My CFAT results, according to the LS who gave us the test that day, said that I qual'ed for any trade in the CF available to an unskilled NCM. Why should I have to retake this test too? The results are still accurate and I am happy with the results from the last one...seems odd to me to be wasting money just to get the same results as last time, including the security checks and all. None of it is free, and we all know this.

Now, here was my reply to you last night when you asked if I minded if you posted my private msg to you in this thread:

Re: (No subject)
« Sent to: Scott on: Yesterday at 16:30:46 » Quote Reply Remove 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As long as the thread is then left open for replies, then fine.  But like what was said when it was locked, the original question was answered....so then it really is up to you.
If you would rather, we can keep it going private...saves space on the boards.

Too be quite honest, it should have remained locked and no new msgs posted to it, it just goes to take the thread off topic, which I know is something that is frowned upon on the boards.

In the end, you are the one with the power, not I, so it is up to you.

I will say that I was quite happy with the reply from kincanucks, and was content with the board being locked after the question was answered. Some did not seem so content and felt the need to reopen it to criticize me. That, in my opinion, is not the point of these forums. I asked a question, got the answer from a very reliable source, and that is the end of it....case closed, or in this case, thread locked. Now it has been reopened so that I can be criticized again. Seems pointless to me to reopen a thread when the original question asked, was already answered.

 

[Pea]

Now, here was my reply to you last night when you asked if I minded if you posted my private msg to you in this thread:
I will say that I was quite happy with the reply from kincanucks, and was content with the board being locked after the question was answered. Some did not seem so content and felt the need to reopen it to criticize me. That, in my opinion, is not the point of these forums. I asked a question, got the answer from a very reliable source, and that is the end of it....case closed, or in this case, thread locked. Now it has been reopened so that I can be criticized again. Seems pointless to me to reopen a thread when the original question asked, was already answered.

Since I happen to be the author of a PM quoted in this thread then I guess I ought to weigh in on this. After your initial post I tried to reply but the thread was locked as I was typing my response. I PM'd Scott with my response because I knew that sometimes Mod's reopen a thread if you have a relevant post. Yes some felt the need to respond because we were (well I was anyways) shocked at how you felt about having to redo the process. Being in a very similar situation to you at this moment, as I am also resubmitting everything, I felt the need to point out that I don't think it's so horrible to have to redo something that is past it's "life expectancy date". Was I trying to pick you apart? No, I try not to make things personal, and would rather pick apart the argument then stoop to "calling the person out". I just didn't like the idea of you making the recruiting process look like such a gong show to all the newbies to the board who are looking at joining the CF. And perhaps one wouldn't get the feeling of being criticized if they thought a little more of what the reaction to their post might be, before they made it.

I know first hand that it takes a bit of time to have to redo everything, as I am currently having to take time off work to go to the CFRC and do an update medical, do an PT test, etc. But, like I said in my quoted PM.. I wasted the recruiters time last spring by not finishing the process, so now I must take up a bit more of my time in order to get what I want.

 

[Springroll]

I know first hand that it takes a bit of time to have to redo everything, as I am currently having to take time off work to go to the CFRC and do an update medical, do an PT test, etc. But, like I said in my quoted PM.. I wasted the recruiters time last spring by not finishing the process, so now I must take up a bit more of my time in order to get what I want.

I totally understand what you are saying. I didn't know you had ceased your application.
You also could have sent your reply to me privately over MSN since we are on each others lists.

There is a difference in timelines here between when you stopped and when I stopped, right?

I guess for me, I was more ticked that one second my file is still open and then 10 minutes later it was closed March 3rd 2006....at that time, not even 2 weeks earlier. I fully admit I was ticked right off about it. I was still ticked when I made this thread. I was hoping that I would hear something along the line of what kincanucks did say, and that is why this thread became a dead issue for me. I got the answer to my question...nuff said.

 

[Scott]

Ok, here are the facts:

Application Date: July 19, 2005(I was wrong on the July 23rd date...my bad), First Contact by CFRC: July 25, 2005, Aptitude completed: August 22, 2005, Med completed: September 28, 2005, Interview completed: September 28, 2005, PT Test completed: October 28, 2005...need to retake, failed the push ups. Rebooked for December and had to cancel. My husband was diagnosed in January and I will totally admit that my CF application at that point was the last thing on my mind. I came back to the forums March 10th, got some motivation from a wonderful person on here, and called the CFRC March 14th. Was told by the Sgt that my file was still opened and whe would go grab it. Got a call 10 minutes later from the MCC saying that my file was closed March 3rd and that i would have to rebook my PT test and pass it, then we would start the whole process again, including the testing.

You failed the physical, passed everything else, we know, you've told us before. We know the rest of the story, you've told us that before as well. Thanks for telling me again.

I am not happy about having to start form scratch again, for obvious reasons, but I am still doing what they require of me. I called up bookings on the 14th and they returned my call yesterday and now I have my retest on April 5th. My application(which has not changed except for what I am applying for) is filled out and ready to go, and now I am just waiting for a call back from the CFRC to see if I have to get my references again, or if they will just use the ones in my file. My CFAT results, according to the LS who gave us the test that day, said that I qual'ed for any trade in the CF available to an unskilled NCM. Why should I have to retake this test too? The results are still accurate and I am happy with the results from the last one...seems odd to me to be wasting money just to get the same results as last time, including the security checks and all. None of it is free, and we all know this.

Maybe they know something you don't? Maybe they think you cheated? Maybe they've changed the test? Maybe they lost it? Maybe there are new marks required for certain areas? Maybe they just felt like f*cking with you? Maybe you pissed them off?

In the end who cares? Just go do it and quit worrying. Must I repeat that it is you applying to them? You will do whatever they ask of you if you want the job, it's that simple and I see you still have issues with it. If I were you I wouldn't worry about them spending more money than they should on poor ol' Springroll, I'd just worry about taking those tests again and passing them all this time so that there are no more hang ups. Make sense?

As long as the thread is then left open for replies, then fine.  But like what was said when it was locked, the original question was answered....so then it really is up to you.

If you would rather, we can keep it going private...saves space on the boards.

Too be quite honest, it should have remained locked and no new msgs posted to it, it just goes to take the thread off topic, which I know is something that is frowned upon on the boards.

In the end, you are the one with the power, not I, so it is up to you.

On one hand you want the thread left open for replies and on the other you feel it should be left locked. Never saw someone contradict themselves in the very same message. This thread still is on topic, we are speaking about starting a closed file, are we not? What I took exception to was your attitude towards doing what was asked of you. It seemed as if you thought you should be above that. Don't care if that was the case or not, that is how it looked and I replied in kind - in fact, I replied at the suggestion of others. Threads morph into different areas all the time, you've been around long enough to know that. I think you wanted this one to remain closed simply because you got challenged.

I will say that I was quite happy with the reply from kincanucks, and was content with the board being locked after the question was answered. Some did not seem so content and felt the need to reopen it to criticize me. That, in my opinion, is not the point of these forums. I asked a question, got the answer from a very reliable source, and that is the end of it....case closed, or in this case, thread locked. Now it has been reopened so that I can be criticized again. Seems pointless to me to reopen a thread when the original question asked, was already answered.

Oh for the love of God please quit playing the martyr!! In the interest of providing the other people looking in on this thread and forming an opinion on the CF I challenged you and your statements, it is up to you to back them up - I do with mine! I've received information from very reliables sources as well, a Recruiting Officer - don't get much more reliable than that, does it?

Criticize you? My dear, I have better things to do than go beating up on poor Springroll. I saw statements made, I saw red, I replied because I had something to say, if I were not Staff I would have PM'd my response to one of them and asked for it to be posted, I left the thread open after my most recent reply. I have been a member of the CF and know first hand what the process is like from start to finish. I did it and shut my yap about it, like most others.

Now if you have a problem with how I handled this I suggest you quit brining it here and take it up with the site owner, you get no pity from me.

For the record: I replied to this topic because it flat out pissed me off. It wasn't at all that Springroll wanted to salvage her file, wasn't even the fact that she was pissed off that she ran into some walls, it was comments like this:

and the CF wonders why people don't want to join. They make them go through the hoops all over again, or they take their time in processing things.

I figured there would have been an easier way.

I have jumped through all their hoops,

Here is some advice you were given earlier:

Do what the CFRC wants you to do or don't apply.  It is as simple as that.  Updated references, a new employment application form and a new security form is not the 'works'.  Good luck.

http://www.recruiting.forces.gc.ca/engraph/howtojoin/application_form_e.aspx

I guess for me, I was more ticked that one second my file is still open and then 10 minutes later it was closed March 3rd 2006....at that time, not even 2 weeks earlier. I fully admit I was ticked right off about it. I was still ticked when I made this thread. I was hoping that I would hear something along the line of what kincanucks did say, and that is why this thread became a dead issue for me. I got the answer to my question...nuff said.

I had big time snags when I got in as well and did not go mouthing off like you have.

So what, you got your question answered. I brought up a very valid point about your attitude that you just do not want to address. Fine, don't want to deal with it here then I would suggest you do some soul searching before hitting BMQ. Just because the thread is a dead issue for you doesn't mean someone else mightn't have something to say.

 

[Pea]

In the end who cares? Just go do it and quit worrying. Must I repeat that it is you applying to them? You will do whatever they ask of you if you want the job, it's that simple and I see you still have issues with it. If I were you I wouldn't worry about them spending more money than they should on poor ol' Springroll, I'd just worry about taking those tests again and passing them all this time so that there are no more hang ups. Make sense?

For the record: I replied to this topic because it flat out pissed me off. It wasn't at all that Springroll wanted to salvage her file, wasn't even the fact that she was pissed off that she ran into some walls, it was comments like this:

So what, you got your question answered. I brought up a very valid point about your attitude that you just do not want to address. Fine, don't want to deal with it here then I would suggest you do some soul searching before hitting BMQ. Just because the thread is a dead issue for you doesn't mean someone else mightn't have something to say.

+1.. Thank you Scott. Exactly what I felt as well. I am not even in the CF and the comments making the joining process look like such a gong show pissed me off too. Many of us run into problems when trying to join. I was lucky and had my whole process other than the PT test done and cleared in 2.5 months. 2.5 months sounds like a very appealing time line to me. Unfortunately I decided to do some "soul searching" and put my application on hold. Which leads me back to where I am now. Am I complaining that I have to do what the CFRC wants again? NO. It is what is needed to join the CF. I want to be in the CF, so I must do what is needed. Makes sense hey? Now that is why I wanted the thread reopened so I could point out how ridiculous some of the initial statements were. If one posts something on a public forum then they have to be able to accept the fact that their argument might be criticized. I have been criticized before, and will be again I am sure.

I totally understand what you are saying. I didn't know you had ceased your application.
You also could have sent your reply to me privately over MSN since we are on each others lists.

There is a difference in timelines here between when you stopped and when I stopped, right?

Like I said earlier, I wasn't trying to make this all personal. It's not all about you. It's about some broad statements that were made, that I thought were ridiculous. I don't see how knowing I was in a similar situation would have affected if you had made this post. What were you hoping to get out of this thread anyways? Sympathy? Because that reminds me of another thread on here, about how we shouldn't recruit females into the CF who need their hand held or special treatment.

Quote from that thread:

What I was trying to describe was those women who seem to require someone to hold their hand all the way through their career. Constantly needing to be praised, rewarded etc. I have met many people like that from both sexes, but the majority are women. Almost like they aren't to sure if they should even be in the CF in the first place. Now I am not generalizing all women are like that, because I know that not all are.

*Edited for spelling*

 

[Springroll]

What were you hoping to get out of this thread anyways?

The answer I got from kincanucks.

 

[Scott]

Oh boy, oh boy, + 100 for you Card!! I avoided that quote from the thread about women in the Infantry because I would have been accused of more criticism  

If one posts something on a public forum then they have to be able to accept the fact that their argument might be criticized. I have been criticized before, and will be again I am sure.

You'll have to accept a whole bunch of criticism if you get in, both of you. You can't just lock a thread or ignore it there, gotta face it.

What were you hoping to get out of this thread anyways? Sympathy?

The answer I got from kincanucks.

You wanted to be the center of attention. You got a bit of a raw deal from the recruiters, that sort of stuff happens. Instead of bucking up, taking the high road and getting it done you bitch about how you've "jumped through hoops" and wonder if "there is an easier way". I hope you don't display the same attitude in the interview because if it was me sitting across from you there would be no way you'd ever get the job.

 

[Springroll]

You wanted to be the center of attention. You got a bit of a raw deal from the recruiters, that sort of stuff happens. Instead of bucking up, taking the high road and getting it done you bitch about how you've "jumped through hoops" and wonder if "there is an easier way".

You obviously missed the part where I said I am doing what they are requiring of me.

 

[Scott]

You obviously missed the part where I said I am doing what they are requiring of me.

Yup, and whining the entire way - that was the point. Never once did I say that you weren't doing what was required, I said you should do it a bit more quietly.

 

[aesop081]

You obviously missed the part where I said I am doing what they are requiring of me.

Ahhhhh Springroll, still looking for the last word eh ?

You asked a question to which you already knew the answer, as the CFRC had already given it to you.  The Kincanucks gave it to you again.  We now find ourselves in a thread that is, once again, all about you.  This has been your trademark here hasn't it ?  I started out when you came here with freindly advice about joining as a CE and you have very quickly overstayed your welcome here.  Your overall attitude is very disapointing to say the least.  You knew what the requirements were the first time and you did not adequately prepare yourself ( PT test) for the task at hand.  This is not very promissing for you future career.  I truely hope that you are not employed by the CF.  Everything i have seen from you so far screams "problem child, from your attitude to your constant arguments.

As made famous in a movie about a "high maintenance woman" :

SEEK LIFE ELSEWHERE


Sorry Mods

 

[Scott]

He finds the words I seek so dearly.

Locked. Have something meaningful to contribute? PM a Mod.