Leadership and Non-Issue Gear

[Matt_Fisher]

Hmm, just to add to this post regarding CF members and non issued kit. On and Ex Cougar Salvo held in Kamloops   BC last month, I remember seeing a WO dressed in a variety of Kit. At first I thought he was OPFOR (Opposing force) however I learned that he was the CSM of one of the TF Coy's. He had a MARPAT HAT, an unknown OD LBV, German Flectarn Gators, and what looked like civi pattern hiking boots. The only issued clothing i could see was his CADPAT shirt and pants. The troops within the company were not as "radically dressed". They did have a mixed bag of issued and non issued kit. Despite the varying boots styles, shemagh scarves, non issued pistol holsters, non- issued knee pads, non issued stealth suits (under combat shirt) and non issued Camelbaks and back packs, they all to me look unmistakably Canadian. Now I was not in the TF Coy therefore if there was someone who was there that wants correct me or add anything please feel free.

The point is, aside form the CSM, all the troops were able to "add" kit and still look Canadian.

(edit-Spelling)

Wow,  that WO must have steered clear from the TF HQ.  I have it from good sources that an OC of one of the sub-units was relieved and sent home for not wearing the issue Tac-Vest and Helmet and there was a brigade wide witch hunt for anyone wearing desert boots.  :

 

[Infanteer]

Anyone who has heard the story on that specific CSM will understand his whole eccentric kit outlook.  Various SOC units and multiple Armies (and LEOs) tend to do that to a guy.  I've heard that WRT to leadership he is a superb WO.

 

[2 Cdo]

The only major problem I see with personal kit is, when things fall apart(and they will eventually) what are you going to replace that Gucci kit with? I don't know too many CQ's/RQ's who carry an extensive line of your favourite hiking boots or chest rigs!

 

[Matt_Fisher]

The only major problem I see with personal kit is, when things fall apart(and they will eventually) what are you going to replace that Gucci kit with? I don't know too many CQ's/RQ's who carry an extensive line of your favourite hiking boots or chest rigs!

Did you read the discussion thread?  :

 

[Britney Spears]

Your question has already been answered earlier in the threat at some length. The answer is "same thing you do when the ISSUED kit falls apart. replace it with more issued kit."

 

[Infanteer]

See kids, this is why it pays to go back at least 1 page so that you know what the discussion is about.

You don't want to look silly talking about Leopard Tanks when everybody else is talking about toilet paper....

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

To amplify Bossi's post a few pages back, I also used a non-issue thigh rig for my pistol overseas.  I got a few raised eyebrows but I pretty much only wore it off camp.  I bought it because the issue one was not working for me.

In a unit, I feel that we shouldn't get too pedantic about kit.  This runs somewhat counter to our way of doing things.  As long as the rules have some common sense and are applied evenly there shouldn't be any big leadership issues.  Courses are, perhaps, a different matter.  That being said, should we not train as we fight?  Its been said elsewhere but mosts post-battle photos of victorious troops show an incredible diversity of kit.

Cheers,

2B

 

[mover1]

:

I don't know who you are, or how much TI you have, but sometimes more often than not, the issue stuff is inadequate, and falls short of the soldier's real needs. I have 'many toys' as you seem to think they are, and I don't have 'em for the LCF either.

15 years TI.
Yes some of the stuff is inadequate. But there is something out there called a UCR form CF-777(Unacceptable condition report) that can be filed through either your unit or supply. As well if you have an idea for a new policy or way of doing things submit it through CFAO 99-2 -- INCENTIVE AWARD PLAN  if you have something right off your noggin that has never been thought of before and will revolutionise the way you work though some new fangled device, try  CFAO 99-4 -- INVENTIONS.
That way the powers that be can know and identify the shortcomings of the kit or policy and can correct it and better tailor it to you needs. Plus it can be finacially rewarding to the submitter if there are any savings incurred to DND.

 

[KevinB]

Mover1,

Mnay UCR's have been submitted on gear from operational units.  Problems come down to $ or it was some sacred cow.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

15 years TI.
Yes some of the stuff is inadequate. But there is something out there called a UCR form CF-777(Unacceptable condition report) that can be filed through either your unit or supply. As well if you have an idea for a new policy or way of doing things submit it through CFAO 99-2 -- INCENTIVE AWARD PLAN   if you have something right off your noggin that has never been thought of before and will revolutionise the way you work though some new fangled device, try   CFAO 99-4 -- INVENTIONS.
That way the powers that be can know and identify the shortcomings of the kit or policy and can correct it and better tailor it to you needs. Plus it can be finacially rewarding to the submitter if there are any savings incurred to DND.

I think you've been drinking the NDHQ Kool-Aid too long... :

Ask KevinB about how many UCRs were submitted regarding the issued Tac-Vest or the Bianchi holster to no avail.  I remember a 45 minute conversation I had with a program officer from CTS about the Tac-Vest, ruck and other assorted kit back in 1999.  He seemed little interested in what other militaries, particularly the US were doing in regard to modular gear, and dismissed the MOLLE/PALS system as "something that wasn't working anyways" and how Canada had developed its own unique "daisy chain" method of attaching kit, and that there was no need for a modular vest or to carry more than the infantry school prescribed load-out of 5 magazines.

I'm all for going through the channels to identify and report non-effective equipment, but when those channels fail you consistently what are you supposed to do?

 

[Infanteer]

I remember a 45 minute conversation I had with a program officer from CTS about the Tac-Vest, ruck and other assorted kit back in 1999.  He seemed little interested in what other militaries, particularly the US were doing in regard to modular gear, and dismissed the MOLLE/PALS system as "something that wasn't working anyways" and how Canada had developed its own unique "daisy chain" method of attaching kit, and that there was no need for a modular vest or to carry more than the infantry school prescribed load-out of 5 magazines.

Wow, now there is a nomination for "Tool of the Year" award....

 

[MPSHIELD]

"Anyone who has heard the story on that specific CSM will understand his whole eccentric kit outlook.   Various SOC units and multiple Armies (and LEOs) tend to do that to a guy.   I've heard that WRT to leadership he is a superb WO."

Infanteer- Yes in my post i had failed to mention that. In my opinion, all that kit did not effect him in doing his job (which is important) and did not have an negative effect on his leadership. In my dealings with him, he was very supportive of his troops and a good leader.

 

[KevinB]

Ask KevinB about how many UCRs were submitted regarding the issued Tac-Vest or the Bianchi holster to no avail.

Actually our local chain listened and we got to use personal kit...

Unfortunately DLR woudl not field a Paraclete mass buy nor for Safariland..

 

[2 Cdo]

Sorry about that one troops, got a little lazy and didn't do any back checking. But I digress, that's got to be the first time ever that I've made a mistake! ;D

 

[PhilB]

Matt,

Your definitly right about the desert boot witch hunt. The det of Calg highrs I was running came off patrol and 6 days in the field to have a shower at the fsg. Not more than 2 minutes on the ground and the brigade RSM was up one side of me and down the other. Fun stuff

 

[The_Falcon]

The dislike of desert boots is also alive and well for LFCA's Ex Stalwart Guardian.  In some locales the animosity to non-issue kit is extreme.  During pre-training for Athena Roto 3 in Meaford, we were told we could not wear camelbacks at all because the candidates training at the base were not allowed to wear them.  Not a kit thing, but to illustrate the anal retentiveness of the SNCO's in Meaford, we were also directed for the sake of "uniformity" that the scrim on our helmets MUST be the burlap kind given out by the RQ, because thats what the recruits had.  The final kicker was, for a period of almost a month, we were not permitted to wear our regimental headdress up top.  Apparently the sight of all the different Highland/Scottish balmorals (with odd maroon beret) really annoyed somebody.  So to be "uniform" we had to wear the bush hat everywhere. 

I know I kinda hijacked this, but I just wanted to illustrate just how anal some people/bases are when it comes to uniformity.

 

[Pikache]

^Yet another reason why anyone would want to work in Meaford, unless you're crazy. (or desperate for money)

 

[Uberman]

In the late 80's I recall our entire battallion being jacked up by our new CO for wearing US rain gear and the the ranger liner. We were told, in no uncertain terms that we were not to wear any non Canadian issue equipment. This included the very long, and comfortable British body scarf, US gloves, or any other piece of kit that was not issued. Of course if you wore the Canadian rain gear, you were most assuredly guaranteed to be wet in minutes. He also had us do PT with metal plate inserts in our mag pouches to simulate full webbing, but thats beside the point. Shortly thereafter our Battalion was inspected by a General - I think it might have been MacKenzie, but not entirely certain, It was a rather wet and chilly day. The General was wearing the British scarf, British gloves and of course the beloved US rain poncho. Didn't hear much about kit after that.

 

[NATO Boy]

Nothin'  like seein' the Top of the food chain smite your own kit regs...what irony  ;D

Just like my CSM on SQ and DP1 INF. The only non-issue kit we could use was a nuke bag and maybe Nalgene water bottles (don't ask.) Yet when the CSM (who enforced the issue-only standard) came on our patrol as an observer, he had the following:

1. Corcoran boots (or at least some wicked boots with a buckled cuff, kinda like WW2 CDN DR or D-Day boots.)
2. Some OD clone of the British Battle Vest.
3. Sunglasses (these aren't an issued item, thus the troops could get 'em anywhere; but we couldn't wear 'em without a chit for "light sensitivity.)

At least when a GEN does it, it's mostly because he's going with what works for himself (what we all try to do but sometimes get raped for it) and what could work for others.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Anyone remember the "1 CMBG wants you" poster from the General Jimmy regime (I'm on the AEV  ;D)?  We sat out in the Sarcee Trg Area all day, in completely QM fashion for hours. The Bde Comd shows up in head to toe non-issued kit.  And he was a hawk for uniformity, among other things, like boxer inspections.... ;D

CHIMO,  Kat