Leave Policy – Annual (time off, after hours, ect...) [Merged]

[CountDC]

On another note (same topic though) I attempted to sell my accumulated leave as per the new leave manual (Payment in Leiu of Accumulated Leave) and I was told that I couldn't as per the QR&O ref. I said please look again. They said no - the QR&O says.....

My leave (10 days) was accumulated in 1999 / 2000. You be the judge. They completely denied the Manual ref and said the QR&O ref was boss basically.

umm - what QR&O are they quoting?  I looked at 16.15 Accumulated and it does not say anything there about not being able to sell it. 

By the way - who are they?  The payment is approved/denied by a Formation Commander.  I am hoping that this is just not your local clerk telling you no.

 

[George Wallace]

Years ago, I sold some of my Leave back (Germany days) and on Release, regretted it.  What I still had left really did come in handy, but I was still three days shy of 1 Apr as a final Release Date.  That Leave does come in handy to cover such things as the LWOP, you may have had on Enrolment so many years ago, and is calculated and affects your Release.

 

[dapaterson]

On another note (same topic though) I attempted to sell my accumulated leave as per the new leave manual (Payment in Leiu of Accumulated Leave) and I was told that I couldn't as per the QR&O ref. I said please look again. They said no - the QR&O says.....

My leave (10 days) was accumulated in 1999 / 2000. You be the judge. They completely denied the Manual ref and said the QR&O ref was boss basically.

Here's the legal hierarcy:

(1) Laws of the country.  For the military, primarily the National Defence Act, with the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act and the Financial Administration Act also having significant roles.

(2) Regulations.  Made under the authority of an Act of Parliament.  Such things as the QR&Os (unique in that they are not Gazetted), or the CF Superannuation Regulations.

(3) Orders.  Such as CFAOs or DOADs.  Made under the authority of Regulations.

(4) Other manuals etc.


In this case, the Leave Manual is a single collection of a variety of policies and orders.  If that manual refers to laws or Regulations and makes a mistake, the regulation or law takes precedence.

Looking at chapter 4 of the new leave manual, when discussing cash out of accumulated leave accumulated after 01 April 1996, a member may request cash-out, but

The approval authority for payment in lieu of leave accumulated since 1 April 1996 is the Formation Commander or, where there is no Formation Commander in the member’s chain of command, the OCC. The approval authority shall not be delegated.

This is per CBI 205.76.

Seems consistent with the leave manual to me.

 

[CountDC]

Years ago, I sold some of my Leave back (Germany days) and on Release, regretted it.  What I still had left really did come in handy, but I was still three days shy of 1 Apr as a final Release Date.  That Leave does come in handy to cover such things as the LWOP, you may have had on Enrolment so many years ago, and is calculated and affects your Release.

Ouch - couldn't adjust things to cover those 3 days?

 

[George Wallace]

Ouch - couldn't adjust things to cover those 3 days?

Release date was 17 Dec, then Ann Lve, Stat Holidays, Acc Lve, etc. and it just wasn't enough.  I failed to do the calculation the previous Apr when I took Ann to go to Europe.  My fault.  Just another little calculation someone else getting out should remember to do.

 

[CountDC]

Release date was 17 Dec, then Ann Lve, Stat Holidays, Acc Lve, etc. and it just wasn't enough.  I failed to do the calculation the previous Apr when I took Ann to go to Europe.  My fault.  Just another little calculation someone else getting out should remember to do.

hmmm - guess it is another one of those things where clerks were taught differently depending on the course they were on.  On my 5s we were taught as a release clerk we were to calculate everything out and if close as yours was then talk to the mbr.  We were taught it was our job to look after the member and get the release date adjusted if the member agreed to it (surprisingly enough some members were so fed up they just wanted out as fast as they could and didn't care about the finance impact). 

 

[George Wallace]

It may have been able to work, but I think it is "illegal" to give Short and Special Leaves to someone on Terminal Lve (or Release).

 

[BinRat55]

umm - what QR&O are they quoting?  I looked at 16.15 Accumulated and it does not say anything there about not being able to sell it. 

By the way - who are they?  The payment is approved/denied by a Formation Commander.  I am hoping that this is just not your local clerk telling you no.

Not exactly - our CC is getting guidance from (Ottawa?) who says that leave cannot be sold until there is a National Cashout Program. What I got from the ref is that is only applicable to "Accrued". Again, my leave was accumulated in 1999 / 2000...

 

[George Wallace]

???  Are not "Accrued" and "Accumulated" Lve the same thing?

 

[aesop081]

???  Are not "Accrued" and "Accumulated" Lve the same thing?

Nope

 

[dangerboy]

???  Are not "Accrued" and "Accumulated" Lve the same thing?

Here is what the leave manual's definitions are:

1.1 Definitions
1.1.01 Accrued leave
Accrued Leave is leave that was accumulated prior to 1 April 1996. It is recorded separately from leave accumulated since 1 April 1996. Accrued Leave shall not count against the accumulated leave limits set out in QR&O 16.15, Accumulated Leave.
1.1.02 Accumulated leave
Accumulated Leave means annual leave not taken during a leave year, carried over into subsequent leave years and remaining separate from annual leave.
Unless otherwise specified, Accumulated Leave is to mean both Accrued and Accumulated Leave.
1

 

[BinRat55]

Administrative update - my references finally made sense to the right people. Was paid out last Thursday. Military writing skills and using the proper chain of command makes a world of difference...

 

[Rinker]

I was just wondering would it be frowned upon if after my original 3 year contract was up, if I took three months off. Would I be frowned upon and would it have any significant impact on my career. After the three months I would re-sign. Or would they just keep me in the CF and not give me pay as to keep the paper work down. Not sworn in yet, but something came up. I could not do it, but I would prefer to do it.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Unless you have a leave pass you can't take three months off.  You would either have to release and rejoin, or re-sign and go on leave/LWOP.
Of course if you are on leave/LWOP you could be recalled.

If you want to be absolutely sure that you can't get called back, release.

 

[Occam]

I was just wondering would it be frowned upon if after my original 3 year contract was up, if I took three months off. Would I be frowned upon and would it have any significant impact on my career. After the three months I would re-sign. Or would they just keep me in the CF and not give me pay as to keep the paper work down. Not sworn in yet, but something came up. I could not do it, but I would prefer to do it.

You're not sworn in yet, and you're considering requesting 90 days LWOP?  What for?  There might be something more appropriate.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

You're not sworn in yet, and you're considering requesting 90 days LWOP?  What for?  There might be something more appropriate.

Actually, my read was he/she isn't in yet but is asking if they can take a 90 LWOP after their 3 year VIE.  *scratches head*

 

[Occam]

Actually, my read was he/she isn't in yet but is asking if they can take a 90 LWOP after their 3 year VIE.  *scratches head*

You're right, it does look that way...which is even more puzzling.  Why would someone want to know if they can get 90 days LWOP at the end of a VIE that they haven't even been offered yet?  I give the boss the evil eye when I get asked in April to plot my summer leave...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I was just wondering would it be frowned upon if after my original 3 year contract was up, if I took three months off. Would I be frowned upon and would it have any significant impact on my career. After the three months I would re-sign. Or would they just keep me in the CF and not give me pay as to keep the paper work down. Not sworn in yet, but something came up. I could not do it, but I would prefer to do it.

:rofl:

Sorry

 

[Rinker]

Like I said Would it be frowned upon, recce guy gave me the response I was looking for. I just would like to do some mountain climbing as I don't think I could simply just take off a 2 weeks here and there. Not saying I will do it. Just food for thought for me right now.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Taking two weeks off here and there is normally not a problem so long as you make the here and there fall in line with your units block leave period if they have one.  Remember, as a brand new enrollee, you get 20 days of leave a year, that doesn't include weekends, statutory holidays, short leave granted by CO, special leave due to deployment/Christmas/New Years.

For example, Christmas/New Year period:
Three stat- Christmas Day/Boxing Day/New Years Day
Two special- Normally granted forces wide
Two short- Sometimes granted by CO
So you've got seven days already, add in the weekend that will bridge and you're up to nine.  Throw in three annual, and you've got two more weekend slotted in there.  So for three days leave you've got two weeks off.
Easter, you've got four day weekend to work with.
Long weekends in August and September (Bank holiday and Labour Day) allow you stretch leave.
With me, 25 days leave a year, I can normally get 2.5 to 3 weeks off at Christmas, 2 weeks straight some other time during the year, and a few long weekends.
But if you want three months to go climbing, get an adventure training trip organized (good luck there), get your CoC to support it as a PR gig (even better luck), or take your release and rejoin.