Leave Policy – Annual (time off, after hours, ect...) [Merged]

[McG]

I would propose that a third option be written into the regs. Option one is take all your leave. Option two is to accumulate remaining days (continue to strictly control this). Option 3 is to be allowed to waive your entitlement to the remaining leave (also strictly controlled). This last option would have to be accompanied by justification on why it should be allowed, rather than forcing a member on leave. There would also need to be other controls in place, but I would propose this as a starting point for discussion.

Hell no!  There should not be an option to waive leave entitlement for the same reason as the is not (and should not be) an option to waive TD entitlements - it becomes a mechanism to exploit service members.  Within a matter of time, some less than scrupulous leadership would find ways to bully and punish pers toward giving away leave.  We already demand enough of service members; we do not need to start taking away leave from those who decide they are too important for it.

 

[GnyHwy]

Forgive my ignorance and perhaps I am missing your point,  but what does waiving your entitlement do, other than being able to pat yourself on the back and say "I told you so" somewhere down the road?

 

[DAA]

I would think that by "waiving" your entitlement only demonstrates that maybe we are receiving too much leave and could open the door to a review and possible reductions.  My thoughts would be in the area of saying "buy it out" and give me the cash also known as "payment in lieu of annual leave".

Most of the time, I use what I have earned but then there are times when I just don't want to take the leave because I will end up sitting at home doing nothing, while my wife is at work.

 

[Jed]

I know that most people continue to work through their leave out of a deep sense of responsibility to the organization and their fellow soldiers. What about those who do so as a means of justifying their PER dots to the right in a futile attempt at eventually earning a promotion? 

This is a problem with any professional organization, Civi or Military.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

A few years back I decided that if I could not take leave, then the Army had to buy it from me.  I used that for 3 years, until I encountered a boss in my last job who insisted that I take leave - real leave, without being allowed to come into work.  Both systems work - and are within the current parameters of the system.  The system is not broken - we just don't apply it properly.

Having said that, I am on leave right now, and have just returned from 3 hours at work.  As you have probably surmised, I am in a leadership position, and had to host a visitor to my organisation.  I don't mind that kind of thing at all - it comes with the territory. 

Now I have to go and change back into civvies and catch up on my e-mails  ;D

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Anyone who does have trouble burning leave has yet to discover things other than work, like fishing and hiking.  ;D

The CF manages to do HLTA on op's, why can't it be done at home while in garrison?  Growing up, we had a cottage with no phone.  The road to it wasn't marked.  The 2 weeks we were there in the summer was Dad's only time away from the Sqn and that was the only way to get away.

People need time to recharge and I for one say, take your leave even if you are 'just home relaxing'.  That's why we have 2 i/c's, DCOs, etc. 

 

[DAA]

How about this?  Taking leave, forget about work and "delegating" your responsibilities to someone else who is in a position to perform them.

I think that would help a subordinates PER.  Provided you are actually in a position where you have subordinates.

 

[dangerboy]

The CF manages to do HLTA on op's, why can't it be done at home while in garrison? 

That is another subject, one that I think we should seriously reconsider.  From the infantry point of view, having HLTA during operations screwed us over.  Did we make it work?  Yes., but we decreased our effectiveness to make it work.

 

[Ostrozac]

I had a probable workaholic in my team a few years ago. He would come in early. He would stay late. And he would come in when he was on leave. As in, every day that he was on leave. The LCol we worked for got wind of this, and had the commissionaires deactivate his building pass the next time he went on annual leave. It was a message -- an intentional message to the entire unit -- that he should get a life. And that we all should have lives and hobbies -- wives, kids, motorcycles, horses, golf, XBox, he didn't care what we were doing, but he wanted us to have lives outside of our jobs.

If what you are doing is so frigging important to your unit that you can't be spared for a few days at a time to go on leave -- then what happens to your unit when you break your leg, or get sick? There has to be some redundancy -- everyone is replaceable. For those in command positions, isn't one of the great functions of leave to allow your 2IC to run the shop for a while? And if the commander never takes a break, aren't you setting the example to your juniors that vacations are for wimps, and if they want to succeed, they should also be working through leave?

For those of you that are doing work while on leave -- I respectfully suggest that you might want to prioritize your tasks, drop the ones that no one really cares about, and find yourself a hobby.  I hear that the kids like Warcraft.

 

[Retired and Broken]

Anyone who does have trouble burning leave has yet to discover things other than work, like fishing and hiking.  ;D

The CF manages to do HLTA on op's, why can't it be done at home while in garrison?  Growing up, we had a cottage with no phone.  The road to it wasn't marked.  The 2 weeks we were there in the summer was Dad's only time away from the Sqn and that was the only way to get away.

People need time to recharge and I for one say, take your leave even if you are 'just home relaxing'.  That's why we have 2 i/c's, DCOs, etc.

Well said. Turn of the Blackberrys as well. The military won't implode without you.

 

[DAA]

I had a probable workaholic in my team a few years ago. He would come in early. He would stay late. And he would come in when he was on leave. As in, every day that he was on leave. The LCol we worked for got wind of this, and had the commissionaires deactivate his building pass the next time he went on annual leave. It was a message -- an intentional message to the entire unit -- that he should get a life. And that we all should have lives and hobbies -- wives, kids, motorcycles, horses, golf, XBox, he didn't care what we were doing, but he wanted us to have lives outside of our jobs.

If what you are doing is so frigging important to your unit that you can't be spared for a few days at a time to go on leave -- then what happens to your unit when you break your leg, or get sick? There has to be some redundancy -- everyone is replaceable. For those in command positions, isn't one of the great functions of leave to allow your 2IC to run the shop for a while? And if the commander never takes a break, aren't you setting the example to your juniors that vacations are for wimps, and if they want to succeed, they should also be working through leave?

For those of you that are doing work while on leave -- I respectfully suggest that you might want to prioritize your tasks, drop the ones that no one really cares about, and find yourself a hobby.  I hear that the kids like Warcraft.

And how did the CDS like being locked out?????

 

[Jarnhamar]

I hear that the kids like Warcraft.

What's your guilds name?

 

[McG]

It seems the idea of waiving one's leave has been successfully put to death here.

I do think we could create more flexibility to carry forward leave for reasons other than operational.  Having managed civilians, I found it was easy to allow them to bank leave from one year if the employee had a specific plan requiring extra days in the future (ie. the 10 yr family reunion in the homeland, or the Haj). 

It would also be nice if the en of FY annual leave burn did not have to start on or before the last working day of the FY.  Instead, the requirement could be that leave must be approved before the end of FY and used not later than within the first 60 days of the next FY.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

My god man that makes sense..... make sure the crystal palace does not get wind of this!

;D

 

[garb811]

I'd prefer to see the leave year tied to the calendar year.  Christmas/New Years is the perfect time to burn that left over leave.  Mid-March to Mid-April is just a terrible time to try to get people to burn leave with FY end issues, PERs, upcoming postings etc etc...

 

[Jungle]

I'd prefer to see the leave year tied to the calendar year.  Christmas/New Years is the perfect time to burn that left over leave.

I like the idea, but December has unit activities and silly week, and January is preps for winter ex... and COs want their people around. They only command for 2 years, and they want to make the most of them !! Every change of command ceremony is the same: "I know you've been busy, but the next 2 years will be more busier". I heard it all about 15 times...

 

[PPCLI Guy]

I like the idea, but December has unit activities and silly week, and January is preps for winter ex... and COs want their people around. They only command for 2 years, and they want to make the most of them !! Every change of command ceremony is the same: "I know you've been busy, but the next 2 years will be more busier". I heard it all about 15 times...

My single biggest pet peeve.  The MRP demands discipline by commanders - and if not, then discipline of commanders.

We don't do the latter because we have confused command-centric (command trumps staff) with commander-centric (no one is permitted to push back against a commander).

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

It's not just about commander-centric.

I'm a WO.  I'm not a commander of anything.  I'm on lve right now, but I'm in the office.  There was no reasonable opportunity for me to take my full entitlement of annual lve.  If I weren't here today then there would be a multitude of issues pertaining to end-FY asspain that would go off the rails.

Maybe it's not right, but this is just how it is.

 

[ArmyRick]

How it is? Thats not acceptable. Your CSM and RSM should be explaining why your working on your leave and there was absolutely no alternative? Some higher people need to start losing their jobs and maybe people will get the message and start practicing army ethics.

 

[dapaterson]

Why is it only time to begin planning leave in March.  "Oops, still have 15 left..."

New FY starts on Monday.  My leave plan for next year (60% complete) has been submitted and approved with travel bookings already made; the other 40% is pencilled in, pending confirmation of conflicts with others.

Not possible for everyone - understood.  But too often people don't have a leave plan - they have a "I'll take leave if I think about it" attitude.