Leave Policy – Annual (time off, after hours, ect...) [Merged]

[Ostrozac]

And how did the CDS like being locked out?????

I know that I've seen Acting CDS messages which basically say that if you need something signed, call the VCDS, because the CDS is on vacation. Which sets a good example for everyone. If Gen Natynczyk and General Hillier could find time to go to the Caribbean -- then you can too.

 

[Infanteer]

I just go out of town every time I'm on leave - no itch to come in to work that day.

I have learned that it is best to use as much time off in the summer as you can (unless one is a hunter) as if you don't, you'll be forced to burn it off in Feb/Mar.

 

[Ex Ranger Instructor]

How it is? Thats not acceptable. Your CSM and RSM should be explaining why your working on your leave and there was absolutely no alternative? Some higher people need to start losing their jobs and maybe people will get the message and start practicing army ethics.

Rick I am the SSM.  On the one hand I agree with you: It's not OK that people come in to work while they're supposed to be on lve.  On the other hand, as the guy who does it to himself, sometimes there's no choice.  Maybe it's the price of leadership.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Rick I am the SSM.  On the one hand I agree with you: It's not OK that people come in to work while they're supposed to be on lve.  On the other hand, as the guy who does it to himself, sometimes there's no choice.  Maybe it's the price of leadership.

Sorry, I can't agree with the yellow text parts.

 

[Pat in Halifax]

Rick I am the SSM.  On the one hand I agree with you: It's not OK that people come in to work while they're supposed to be on lve.  On the other hand, as the guy who does it to himself, sometimes there's no choice.  Maybe it's the price of leadership.

I agree too. We can all plan (I am sure we all do) our leave roughly for the year by about July. That said, unexpected postings happen, unexpected deadlines are raised, unplanned oversite committees identify your workplace, world events trigger Unit readiness levels; a whole hockey sock full. I, myself had one day left (yesterday) and yes, I was in for about 3 hours. Why? Because the situation wrt my work changed between secure Thursday and Friday morning. It happens...probably way too often and to way too many people-I have seen good people burn out. For those that haven't been in this situation, I appreciate your lack of understanding. Yes, two previous CDSs buggerred off for two weeks down south, as have many of us. It is the unplanned that we need to learn to 'plan' for. I usually try to 'overuse' leave as I still have 15 of the old accumulated so have a fall back if an opportunity arises; many do not.
For anyone on the Projects in Ottawa, this is common-place to do for senior personnel. The other option is to work every night until 10 (many of us in Ottawa on IR did that...because we had no life!) but that is not the resolution to the problem. The problem is that every single one of us regardless of rank or environment is triple (plus) hatted. We have MUCH more on our plates than our contemporaries of even 25 years ago.
I understand the argument that this should not be practiced nor permitted but I ask someone to tell me what a group is to do if (for example) TB ups its timeline 60 days and now wants that Progrep next Tuesday instead of July?

 

[Haggis]

The other option is to work every night until 10 (many of us in Ottawa on IR did that...because we had no life!)

There are many in Ottawa who are not on IR and still work ridiculous hours because that's what's required to meet the deliverables.  As you noted, not all deliverables originate from within the CF (MINQUIRIES, for example).

I, too, was one of those folks who worked in a directorate that was so busy and so understaffed (i.e. one deep in every capacity) that having a signed CF100 just allowed you to come to work in civvies.

 

[riggermade]

When I was in and took leave I did not go in to work... leave is to get away from work.  Before I got out I was in a unit and was called into the CSM's office and questioned to why I didn't answer my e-mails and when I said I was on leave their response was I should still be coming in to check e-mails... I just laughed at them.  Funny I was only there 5 months then released

 

[Ralph]

If a signed leave pass means I work from home vice garrison, but allows me the honour of not shaving/changing out of my pyjamas, that's a worthwhile trade-off.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

You are still supposed shave on leave.  ;D

 

[riggermade]

The same unit that tried to make me GDWO while I was on sick leave after surgery on my foot... in Petawawa... any guesses?

 

[brihard]

You are still supposed shave on leave.  ;D

Oops. I am one furry SOB right now. Going on eight days.  ;D

Doesn't sound like our leave system is broken. It sounds like commanders and leaders aren't stepping up and pushing the issue higher when they are genuinely undermanned for necessary, critical work.

Would it be safe to bet that these are the same workplaces where you're likely out of luck trying to fit any real PT into a workday like we're supposed to?

 

[Pandora114]

You are still supposed shave on leave.  ;D

*looks at husband*

someone forgot to send him that memo.

 

[Haggis]

Would it be safe to bet that these are the same workplaces where you're likely out of luck trying to fit any real PT into a workday like we're supposed to?

"You're not paid by the hour, you're paid by the day. Ergo your "workday" is 24 hours long and you can do PT anytime within that 24 hour period."  (Words spoken to me, quite seriously, by a civilian supervisor who is, thankfully, no longer working with/for the DND/CAF.)

 

[brihard]

"You're not paid by the hour, you're paid by the day. Ergo your "workday" is 24 hours long and you can do PT anytime within that 24 hour period."  (Words spoken to me, quite seriously, by a civilian supervisor who is, thankfully, no longer working with/for the DND/CAF.)

I'm not even gonna pretend that surprises me.

 

[ModlrMike]

Having read the messages up thread, I can only conclude that it's not the leave system that's broken... it's the leadership system. Requiring people to be on leave, and at the same time requiring them to work is a failure of leadership. Period.

 

[Shamrock]

Having read the messages up thread, I can only conclude that it's not the leave system that's broken... it's the leadership system. Requiring people to be on leave, and at the same time requiring them to work is a failure of leadership. Period.

I think it's a bit unfair to pin this exclusively on leadership.  I had a subordinate who came in frequently on annual leave because he felt he was so indespensible yet required frequent phone-in sick leave. Less the phone-in leave, I myself am a terrible offender.

Me, I've gone my first solid week of not coming in to work for nothing. My Blackberry is at the office, forwarded to my home line. I've gotten a few panicked calls, but that highlights my failure to prepare my workspace for my extraction, not a failure in my leadership.

I've recently undertaken a highly regimented schedule at work, and where I adhere to it, I'm typically done work early. I spend two consolidated hours on email, two consolidated hours on paper, and two consolidated hours dealing with people. I've also begun vastly limting email - they are the biggest time wasters my office. If its urgent or simple, use the phone. If its routine or requires a paper trail, use a memo (this, paradoxically, requires less paper anyhow). 

I know I'm going in to work to a huge backlog of work. I don't care. My lack of efficiency has cost me enough recreation time. I'll just do what army people do to address this problem. Warning security recce plan.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

When your handed your leave pass, you should be required to hand over your office keys and blackberry. You can have them back from the Orderly Sgt when you return to work.

There is absolutely no requirement to be working while on leave (some exceptions for Base Commanders, etc, aside). If your working on leave, you've either mismanaged your time and should be taken to task for that or if it's because of unforseen workloads, it's the fault of those doling out the work.

Either case is a failure of leadership.

When you take a cup of water from a bucket, it doesn't leave a hole.

Nobody is that indispensable that you have to do things on your off time.

 

[McG]

Perhapse, with a view to establishing a culture of not dragging your work on leave with you, the MND could start sending his various holiday salutations on the weekday prior to the stat holiday (or early December to come before block leave in the case of Christmas).  This makes more sense than sending an email when you expect the majority of recipients to be on leave at its moment of relevance.

 

[medicineman]

I seem to remember back when I was a baby Pte that I had to turn my ration card in whenever I went on leave if I was a shack dweller...maybe we should all have work passes for accessing work regardless of rank or area of employment that has to be turned in - a 1 for 1 trade with your leave pass.  The duty dork at the door can then give you your pass back on the appointed day when you show them the leave pass das expired...and they have orders not to let anyone in with a valid leave pass UNLESS there has been a recall from leave.  Also, unless of paramount necessity (CO's/RSM's etc), blackberries also get turned in.  Of course, the passes would likely eat into some other good idea fairy's useless idea budget...

:2c:

MM

 

[George Wallace]

Perhapse, with a view to establishing a culture of not dragging your work on leave with you, the MND could start sending his various holiday salutations on the weekday prior to the stat holiday (or early December to come before block leave in the case of Christmas).  This makes more sense than sending an email when you expect the majority of recipients to be on leave at its moment of relevance.

Now, where would the fun in that be?  ;D