Left wing.

[rz350]

I seem to see a lot of self proclaimed "liberals" and "left wingers" putting the army down, and here on army.ca lots of people putting the left wing down.

Why is the left wing incompatible with the military? If anything, the whole reason I am joining is because I am left wing. I believe in individual freedoms for people, all over the world. I believe people should be equal and treated the same before the law. I believe people should in general, be as free as reasonably possible. And I'm ready to fight, kill, or die if I have to in an attempt to do this. But all the qualities there are qualities that are generally liberal and left wing. Freedoms on things like religion, sexuality, free speech, free politics, free press, due process, independent courts, all things championed by the left.

Just something to think about for both sides.. (the Anti military "hippie" left wingers, and the staunch anti left winger types)

 

[George Wallace]

Although you hold all those values of the Left dear, you have taken one step further than most of those others are willing to do.  You have decided to defend those Rights.  Now you fall into the ranks of those of Soldier.  Those of the Left who don't understand this will condemne you.  They are of the belief of the 'universal goodness' in mankind, a beautiful thought that goes along with Socialism, Communism, Marxism, etc., which are all beliefs that work good on paper, but due to the nature of mankind, will never work in the real world.  You have chosen to step into the real world and defend what we believe in and things that can to make this a better life in our country.  Those of the Left who don't see life as it really is, protest and cause disruption in their misplaced and nieve beliefs of an Utopian life in an Ideal World.  Their world is false world, and a very small world.  You have chosen to broaden your views.

Good for you.

 

[North Star]

I'm not the final expert in Civil-Military relations, but one theory is that the military and the left had a very comfortable relationship until Vietnam. The left, in an attempt to discredit the war, forgot the whole idea of te neutrality of the Armed Forces and attacked them wholeheartedly while the right wrapped itself in the flag and came to its rescue. This theory is supported by polling figures in the US which seem to indicate from the 70s on a growing "Republicanization" of the US Army. This effect then spilled into Canada, despite Canada's lack of involvement in the conflict.

Thomas Ricks' "Making the Corp" spells it out in detail if you want to read in further.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>I believe in individual freedoms for people

What about people who disagree with you, or wish to live differently?  Would you force them to live a certain way because you feel it is best for them or for society?

 

[rz350]

I'm not quite sure what you mean here? Do I want to force hippies to agree with me and be like me by force? No...

Would I have any qualms about ousting a tinpot fascist genocidal dictator? No.

 

[Wookilar]

What about us left-wing Army types? While I am all for bashing some sense into the lefties that come here, it is mainly because they cannot back up anything they are spouting. I believe in liberal democracies, human rights and freedoms, and that humankind is, inherently, good. I lean pretty left on a number of issues, but I, like yourself and everyone here, believe we have to stand up and be counted, defend those that cannot defend themselves with actions, not words. Words are nice, but they do not stop psychos from killing millions more.

I also believe there are some sorry a#s wingnuts out there that would slit their grandmothers throat to get what they want. No matter how much universal goodness you believe in, it will not matter until everyone else believes it to. That will not be happening anytime soon in our current Western (or Eastern, for that matter) societies.

So many on the left conveniently forget things like the Khmer Rouge experiment in Cambodia. You can't get more left-wing than that. Millions dead. Stalin. Millions. Lenin/Marx/Mao, ditto. These are true facts and true statistics, that no one debates. Because the left does not even want to talk about them. All they spout about are unpractical ideals that, unfortunately, are not possible at this time. As soon as they can end all the violence/hunger/abuses, I will be right beside them. Until then, I will remain in front of them, keeping them safe, so they can try and save the world some day.

 

[a_majoor]

Why is the left wing incompatible with the military? If anything, the whole reason I am joining is because I am left wing. I believe in individual freedoms for people, all over the world. I believe people should be equal and treated the same before the law. I believe people should in general, be as free as reasonably possible.

The "liberal" you are referring to here is the Classical Liberalism of the enlightenment, not the Nanny State of enforced morality, social engineering and PC thought police we see today. Congratulations, you are a Conservative in the modern sense, and because you are willing to step up to the plate, welcome to the team.

 

[paracowboy]

the Left seems to want everyone to have the same basic freedoms, except that the only way you can have it, is by doing exactly what they say. That's my big gripe with the Loonie Left. Only they know what's best for you, so do what they tell you to.

The Right seems to think that the Government should do what the people say, whereas the Left seems to think that the people should do what the Government says.

The Left seems to think that just talking about a problem is sufficient, where the Right seems to think you should actually do something about it.

The Left seems to think that the rules apply to everyone, except themselves. The Right seems to think that the rules are in place for a reason, and evryone should follow them.

Now, if we start on the Retarded Right, we have a whole different set of problems...nobosy should have any rights except them. Waitaminnit! There really is no one so like the Extreme Left as the Extreme Right! It's true!

Ya gotta have both, to have balance. The problem seems to be that the Left have more wackos than they do anyone else. Hopefully that will change soon. But I doubt it.

See, you're talking about true Liberalism, not what passes for it, these days. True Liberalism is found amongst the more Centrist (by today's standards) than it is the Left.

dang. a_majoor beat me to it. But I'ma post anyway! So there!

 

[couchcommander]

Well as a self proclaimed "lefty" I hope that's not how you view me!

If you do.. well we've gotta have a chat.

 

[TMM]

Well as a self proclaimed "lefty" I hope that's not how you view me!

If you do.. well we've gotta have a chat.

+1.

We all have our political views and labels. They are not carved in stone. What passes for "Conservative" in Canada can well be considered "Democrat" south of the border.

In my case I lean left; I just don't see the sense in leaning so far left that I tip over and damage any good I have achieved.

At the end of the day I try to avoid pigeon holing people into neat little statistics based on political lines. I wish more people would look beyond party lines and at the people involved.

 

[a_majoor]

Several different ways of looking at things can be found in this thread: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/23744.0.html

Left and Right are rather incomplete and unsatisfying terms (except for the implication of being "Right"  )

 

[vangemeren]

I don't know what it is really. I consider myself "left leaning" and support the military. The thread a_majoor showed is really good because it isn't just along one plane (left-right), it use two planes (government control in everyday life). I often don't give my opinion here because others are much better at it than I.

I see myself also as a open-minded, mix and match type. That's why I don't register with a political party. The thing that pisses me off the most are people that are close-minded partisans, who don't keep an open mind and criticise something because it comes from "one side", and totally dismiss it.(ie. "oh boy it's ____ idea it must be a crackpot of an idea)

 

[TMM]

I'd post what I got at politicalcompass but I'm afraid of getting banned LOL.

van Gemeren, I think you and I are like many people - "max and match" type. I know when I was a kid the adults were pretty much with a political party for life. Now, I see more and more people casting votes not by party line but by specific issues. I've been voting for 18 years(I cried the first time I was so happy) and I have voted for 4 different parties, 5 if you count a refused ballot.

Even the politicians are switching from party to party, so I will cst my vote where it best represents me.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Van Gemeren hit it right on the head, I don't care who had the idea, if its a good idea,.....then its a good idea.

I can't wait for all the political parties to grasp this.....

 

[TMM]

I can't wait for all the political parties to grasp this.....

Careful guys, you're starting to sound all peace, love and togetherness.

Nice to see I'm rubbing off on you lot ;D

 

[paracowboy]

exactly right, ya'll. But, it ain't about Party doctrine with me, or most folks, I find. When I'm talking about the Left or the Right, I don't go with Liberal or Conservative on a knee-jerk basis. That's just lazy.

When I'm talking about Left and Right, it's about how people think. As I tried to illustrate above. The Right, as we define it up here, is actually more Centrist, more in line with true Liberalism. The Left is more in line with Leninistic (again, I just made up a word! Look at me go.) Communism. Look at where that ended up.

When we get into the Loonie Left, and the Retarded Right, we're dealing with the same nutjobs.

If you do.. well we've gotta have a chat.

stop. Just stop. I hope that was some sort of lame attempt at humour. It comes across as a threat, and that's just sad.

 

[couchcommander]

lol, ah you army guys

I meant a literal "chat", ie explain where I and a lot of other people stand on some things.

If I meant "chat"... well I would have made it more explicit I think... not to mention I find making vague threats to one's physical security over the internet.... dumb I suppose?

 

[paracowboy]

lol,

whoa dude, like take a chill pill man...

*ahem*  I meant a literal "chat", ie explain where I and a lot of other people stand on some things.

If I meant "chat"... well I would have made it more explicit... not to mention I find making vague threats to one's physical security over the internet.... dumb I suppose?

cool. Internet tough guys are, like, totally lame.

As for where folks stand, I honestly think most of us are all trying to get to the same place, by slightly different roads.

It's just a few whackos who keep pushing bush off the damn road on each side. Sadly, that's what usually makes the most noise.

 

[Cloud Cover]

the Left

The Right .

The Left

The Left

Retarded Right,

Extreme Left            Extreme Right!

You are bear walking and veering all over the place in a most un-military fashion. [-1].  :tsktsk:

 

[rz350]

I agree it is stupid to be highly partisan and to stick to one party rabidly. All 3 of the major parties here in Canada have their share of half baked Ideas. BUt when I say left, I mean traditional left. Not the eco freak hippie.  I scored -4.5 and -4.5 on a the politcal compass at http://www.politicalcompass.org/ for all it means.