Leo 2A6M CAN - are they in service?

[Allen]

In Canada? I've heard quite a bit about the 2A4M CAN and, more recently, the basic 2A4. Scouring the internet I can find pics of both of these variants, but nothing of the 2A6M CAN, at least not on Canadian soil. Plenty of pics and info of the 2A6M CAN in Afghanistan and Germany, however.

I believe Canada was supposed to hold on to the German loaner 2A6M's and refurbish the Dutch 2A6M's as restitution to the Germans. If so, I would think the squadrons and Armour School would have received them already. Or are there repairs/mods to be done before they can be distributed?

 

[JorgSlice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpi26A9hbC4&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hz-Yt2xK8IY&feature=plcp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_xzBxak5uY&feature=plcp

The Leopard 2s (2A4M and 2A6M CAN) have been rolled out to the regiments and the Armoured School

The Canadian Army acquired 100 Leopard 2A4 tanks from the Netherlands in 2007. Twenty Leopard 2A6M were borrowed from the German Army beginning in mid-2007 to support the Canadian deployment in Afghanistan, with the first tank handed over after upgrading by KMW on August 2, and arriving in Afghanistan on August 16, 2007. Two Bergepanzer 3 Büffel were loaned from the German Army for use with the Canadian deployment in Afghanistan. An additional fifteen Leopard 2A4 tanks were purchased from the German Army for spare parts. An additional 12 surplus Pz 87 were purchased from Switzerland in 2011 for conversion to protected special vehicles. The Canadian Army will be able to deploy 40 combat tanks (20 2A4M CAN and 20 2A6M CAN) with 42 2A4s for training, all supported by 13 to 18 AEVs, 12 ARVs and 15 Logistic Support Vehicles.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leopard_2#Operators

 

[Franko]

The Leopard 2s (2A4M and 2A6M CAN) have been rolled out to the regiments and the Armoured School

Oh Wikipedia strikes again.

The Leo2A6(M) are in Montreal undergoing rebuild.

None are in either Regiment at this time, unless something has changed since Friday.

The priority for the tank fleet is to get the A4s and A4(M)s out the doors first.

The Armour School has one A6(M) for TP and lesson plan development only.

Regards

 

[Good2Golf]

Nerf Herder, is gun length the biggest difference between 2A4M and 2A6M Can?

Regards
G2G

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Nerf Herder, is gun length the biggest difference between 2A4M and 2A6M Can?

Regards
G2G

I keep hearing "it's not the length of the gun, it's how you use it that matters"  :blotto:

 

[fraserdw]

There are 4 Leo 2s in Gagetown, they just played war for the MND a week ago.

 

[JorgSlice]

Oh Wikipedia strikes again.

The Leo2A6(M) are in Montreal undergoing rebuild.

None are in either Regiment at this time, unless something has changed since Friday.

The priority for the tank fleet is to get the A4s and A4(M)s out the doors first.

The Armour School has one A6(M) for TP and lesson plan development only.

Regards

That was the LFWAPAO had stated, I guess there's slight confusion on which model is which on their end too.
LFWPAO also noted that the LdSH(RC) have received their lot and were using them in Wainwright over the summer on conversion course.

 

[The Bread Guy]

That was the LFWAPAO had stated, I guess there's slight confusion on which model is which on their end too.
LFWPAO also noted that the LdSH(RC) have received their lot and were using them in Wainwright over the summer on conversion course.

In the LFWAPAO video on YouTube ....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpi26A9hbC4&feature=plcp
.... the headline says it's a 2A4, while the caption says it's a 2A6.

 

[JorgSlice]

And previous to that, the headline was also 2A6, they stated the change, but the caption remained.

 

[McG]

Nerf Herder, is gun length the biggest difference between 2A4M and 2A6M Can?

Features of turret top show that the A4M retains the older commander's station too.

 

[Allen]

Thanks for the clarification, Nerf Herder.

Some pics and videos call those tanks on exercise in Wainwright "2A6"'s, but from the armour package and gun, it's clear they are 2A4M's that were just mislabelled.

 

[Franko]

There are 4 Leo 2s in Gagetown, they just played war for the MND a week ago.

As one of the commanders of one of the Leo2A4 "played war" for the MND....there are more than that here.

Nerf Herder, is gun length the biggest difference between 2A4M and 2A6M Can?

Regards
G2G

Nope. The turret is different as well due to the mine protection package. It's also electric drive vice hydraulic. Then there are IFCS and SFCS differences as the A6 is designed to fire the super sabot round, or LKE round which requires the longer gun for the extra muzzle pressures it requires. It's designed to pop the top off a T-90 at 2500m+. Then there is the commanders PERI and TIM, which allows us the ability to conduct "hunter/killer" shoots.

There are also many changes to the hull, again for the mine package. Picture everything in the tank, including the crew compartment in the turret suspended from the ceiling. From the foot peddles to the driver being suspended in a sling seat. There are also mods to the torsion bar housings, the wine rack, AFFESS system, escape hatch....the list goes on and on.

There is a reason that qualified Leo C2 crew required 4 weeks in Germany to qualify on the A6(M). There is that much that had changed between the tanks it requires a complete change in crew drills and engagement techniques. I was shocked the first time I rolled over a 2m wide wadi at well over 80kmh and didn't feel a thing. Can't do that in a C2.

The A4M has some upgrades from the A4CAN but not the same as the A6M. It's a variant in its own right and can take the same punishment as the A6.

That was the LFWAPAO had stated, I guess there's slight confusion on which model is which on their end too.
LFWPAO also noted that the LdSH(RC) have received their lot and were using them in Wainwright over the summer on conversion course.

The Strats only have a few at the moment, I believe two troops. This is due to the fact that they are still in rebuild from the tour. I could be wrong, but that's the info I have from guys I know there and its current as of two weeks ago. Conversion courses will continue Corps wide both in Gagetown and in Edmonton.

The system is catching up though and C Sqn RCD will have their compliment of Leo2 soon.

Regards

 

[Good2Golf]

Thank you, Nerf Herder.  Very interesting about the turret moving to electrics from hydraulics, similar things happening with flight simulation...more capable, less down time, etc...  2m-wide wadis at 80 kph is something!  I once did a 1m ditch with an Iltis...didn't work out as it sounds the M's do...

Regards
G2G

 

[vonGarvin]

It's designed to pop the top off a T-90 at 2500m+.

Sweet!!!!

 

[Franko]

The differences between the hydraulic and electrical system as far as performance, they are identical.

In observation mode 360 traverse speed is about 12 seconds, while in full stab its 9 seconds. Not too shabby to move over 27 tons around.

The biggest difference between hydraulic and electrical is the heat generated is less with electrical and there is a smaller traverse gear mech, which frees up a bit of space. There are some other technical things that make each an asset, but again, they all get the round on the target the same way.

Regards

 

[George Wallace]

The biggest difference between hydraulic and electrical is the heat generated is less with electrical and there is a smaller traverse gear mech, which frees up a bit of space. There are some other technical things that make each an asset, but again, they all get the round on the target the same way.

An electrical system also solves a considerable safety issue by not having crews exposed to the possibilities of being severely burned or scalded by hot hydraulic fluids if the system is struck by a penetrating round or any other event that may cause the lines to break.

 

[Franko]

An electrical system also solves a considerable safety issue by not having crews exposed to the possibilities of being severely burned or scalded by hot hydraulic fluids if the system is struck by a penetrating round or any other event that may cause the lines to break.

In many conversations with German crews, including many Master Gunners, there has never been an issue of a hose breaking due to over pressure as there is an overpressure release valve located on the turret floor beneath the gun forward of the loader. One MG has told me that in the 25 years he's served on the Leo 2 (all variants) he has never had any reports of one releasing hydraulic fluid.....ever.

As for a round penetrating the crew compartment and causing a line to break.....they have bigger things to worry about than 6 litres of hydraulic fluid spraying around.   

Regards

 

[Kat Stevens]

Not like if an AEV takes a hit to the hydraulic tank, 200 plus litres of hot fluid spraying around.

 

[dapaterson]

An electrical system also solves a considerable safety issue by not having crews exposed to the possibilities of being severely burned or scalded by hot hydraulic fluids if the system is struck by a penetrating round or any other event that may cause the lines to break.

My understanding is that the turret features a 120mm device intended to prevent just that occurrence.  Like the good book says, "Do unto others as others would do unto you - but do it first!"

 

[JorgSlice]

As one of the commanders of one of the Leo2A4 "played war" for the MND....there are more than that here.

Nope. The turret is different as well due to the mine protection package. It's also electric drive vice hydraulic. Then there are IFCS and SFCS differences as the A6 is designed to fire the super sabot round, or LKE round which requires the longer gun for the extra muzzle pressures it requires. It's designed to pop the top off a T-90 at 2500m+. Then there is the commanders PERI and TIM, which allows us the ability to conduct "hunter/killer" shoots.

There are also many changes to the hull, again for the mine package. Picture everything in the tank, including the crew compartment in the turret suspended from the ceiling. From the foot peddles to the driver being suspended in a sling seat. There are also mods to the torsion bar housings, the wine rack, AFFESS system, escape hatch....the list goes on and on.

There is a reason that qualified Leo C2 crew required 4 weeks in Germany to qualify on the A6(M). There is that much that had changed between the tanks it requires a complete change in crew drills and engagement techniques. I was shocked the first time I rolled over a 2m wide wadi at well over 80kmh and didn't feel a thing. Can't do that in a C2.

The A4M has some upgrades from the A4CAN but not the same as the A6M. It's a variant in its own right and can take the same punishment as the A6.


The Strats only have a few at the moment, I believe two troops. This is due to the fact that they are still in rebuild from the tour. I could be wrong, but that's the info I have from guys I know there and its current as of two weeks ago. Conversion courses will continue Corps wide both in Gagetown and in Edmonton.

The system is catching up though and C Sqn RCD will have their compliment of Leo2 soon.

Regards

Cool! Thanks for the Info Nerf!

One day I wish to be blessed with being in the presence of such an impressive machine