LeoC2s for Armoured Reserve

[ZipperHead]

Just thought I'd weigh in with my thoughts: The military is too cash-strapped to keep equipment around to let the Reserves have some "kewl" equipment around. George and Franko are right when they say that the Reserves don't have the money nor manpower to maintain them IF they were to get them. The American National Guardsman that maintain theirs are full-timers and they also have Regular Army guys in the units as well (someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

I know that there had been problems in the past with Reserve units just maintaining their Iltis fleet, and that's a "kick the tires and light the fires" vehicle if there ever was one, let alone a Leopard. There is ALWAYS work to be done on a tank to keep it going, and it ain't going to happen one night a week (cuts into the Mess time too much....).

I think the Reserves should focus on re-roling (where applicable) to Recce, and just getting ready for the G-Wagon, LUVW, whatever they want to call it.

In the perfect world, the Reg Force would have the Leo2 A6, and the Reserves could get the LeoC2 as a "hand-me-down", but until Canada wins the International Lottery, that isn't gonna happen. I have seen the future, and it has wheels.....

Al

 

[Recce41]

Al
Could have said it so good. But I wouldn't have been so polite.
:evil: :tank:

 

[12alfa]

Al. I too agree with you...except for the maning thing. We have at this time troops working for the reg force to which they COULD be used to maintain the tanks if we were to get them. We Won't, but to say we could or don't have the manpower is just wrong!!..

We have lots of troops supporting the various base/commands across this country, maybe 10 years ago this was true, but not now. At this time in our history we (the res) can't fill all out the jobs comming our way from the reg force shortage.

Therefore we could maintain anything we  were told to, given the resources to do so.
Like i said before, this is not going to happen, Saying we could not is wrong though.

 

[ZipperHead]

I'm going to wade into this one full-bore: I was a Total-Force Hussar here in Gagetown back from '93 (rebadged from C Sqn RCD) until '96 (when I was mercifully posted to the Strathcona's). Total-Force (Total-Farce as we lovingly called it) showed what was inherently wrong with the Reserves: too many uncommitted people. Not ALL are uncommitted, just too many. We had unit functions on Saturdays and Sundays to better accomodate the Reservists, and it was still abysmal. Our first Men's Christmas Dinner was held down in Moncton (on a Saturday, natch) and while our Squadron had around 140 on parade, the total turnout for the rest of the Regiment (including Reg Force attached to the other sqn's) must have be around 50. However, when it come time to go down to Fort Knox to use the SimNet, there were people coming out of the woodwork to go on that "swan".

So one could imagine the amount of committment that would be required to maintain the Leopards all the time, and just not feeling like showing up is not going to get tracks changed, or gunnery checks done. The amount of training and experience required to get to a proficient level is beyond what the average Reservist is going to be able to or willing to commit to. Some will, and good on them, but too many wouldn't. I have seen what Reserve exercises are like (supporting them directly and indirectly) and I KNOW that it is  beyond the scope of the average Reserve unit to maintain, control and exercise the vehicles (what's the point in having them if you aren't going to train on them?).

A solution would be to use Reg Force crewmen and techs to do that, but where does that then put us? Further behind than we already are. We are stretched thin as it is, and nobody wants to work on somebody elses vehicles (you know that we (the Reg Force) would end doing all the dirty work while the Reserves would "quit" after all the fun was had). Please don't make me laugh at you by saying that wouldn't happen, because I will.

Contrary to popular belief, all military vehicles (AFV's) require a lot of maintenance (all you Mech Infantry better be reading this.....) and experience to drive them properly (ie. not destroy them or the pers inside). I have worked with too many Reservists who are horrible drivers. They are taught to "drive it like they stole it". And maintenance? What's that??? Yes, there are lazy Reg Force types who don't do their work, and can't drive very well, but not in my troop. And I teach my driver's how to drive (ie. what a jockey is). Can't say the same for the Reserves. And again, the Reg Force doesn't have the time or pers to teach the Reserves how to do their job. That's the job of the Reserves (NCO's). Or is the Mess beckoning?.....

Didn't want to get into a mud-slinging match, but I felt like calling it like I see it, as I have had experience with that end of the spectrum.

Al :tank:

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Um, Allen, I don't want to get in to a flame war, but I thought I would make a comment.

The reserves have many types of soldiers, as you well know.  Students suplementing their income.  Unemployed, trying it just for the cash.  The "Rambo's"  We've seen them all.

But the few, maybe the fifty you mentioned, the ones that are truly dedicated deserve mention.  There's not many of us that would willingly give up our weekends, an evening a week, our summer holidays, and so on.  But there are the few that make the reserve thing worthwhile.

Those few, bless their hearts, make it up for the rest of them.

 

[ZipperHead]

Lance,

I alluded to the fact that there are some dedicated reservists. I have a lot of respect for the true "Citizen Soldier" and have worked with/for more than a few of those. I have seen a few guys become disillusioned with the military after willingly giving up a year of their life (put jobs on hold, miss a year of university/college) to go overseas, and then be cut from the tour due to number-crunching (pre-Bosnia training in 96).

Just try getting a troop's (let alone a squadron's) worth together to do what 12Alfa and some of the others have suggested to, and that is another story.

I think the heart of the matter is committment. I have committed 16 years of my life to the military (and I don't include 5 years in cadets as the military, like some seem to.....), and have never said no to anything that I have been told to do. I didn't like everything that I had to do, and in many cases would have rather not done them (did I mention a Men's Xmas dinner on a saturday, or working a reserve "exercise" over a weekend......?). I understand that the Reserves are not Regular soldiers. It might help if some of "them" realize that as well. The Reserves try to accomplish a lot, in a lot less time than we do. Sometimes the results speak for themselves. Sometimes they surprise us. But I stand by what I said before: the Reserves could never take on the Leopards. We have a hard enough time with them, with people dedicated to them 24/7. Anyway, it's a moot point, as they will never get them (maybe as a monument....)

Al

 

[Slim]

Hey all

Allan seems to be right on the money with his thoughts on the reserves trying to maintain the tanks in any kind of working order.

I'm not going to say much...but I will add one thing. A tank, like a car, has to be run fairly regularly or else the parts of the engine that dry and crack will start to do so. IF that happens the pack must be pulled and go to third line.

All of this takes manpower and also requires someone who knows the tank (how it runs and behaves. What maint it needs, etc) The reserves DO NOT HAVE THE DEDICATED manpower or knowledge base to perform Leo maint on a long term basis. Its not their fault but the perhaps the way that the organizations are run and administered.

As for the U.S. National Guard. They have monstrous "equipment farms" which include tanks, Queen Marys, M113's and lots of other stuff. There is a full-time staff of Maintainers to keep the stuff running (remember the U.S. Army's budget!!) The U.S. N.G. units cycle through one at a time.

I was at the one in Greiling, Mich and it was kilometers wide and full of green stuff!

My 2 Cents.

Slim

I will try to dig out the pictures I have of it and post a few.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

I knew that was how you felt as well.

I just sort of thought that I would place a pre-emptive strike, before some of the dedicated reservists charged, with bayonets fixed.

 

[ZipperHead]

Thanks for the support Lance (we shall call you Lance the Wise Elder......). Sometimes I know what I'm getting at, but don't express it as "nicely" as I should.

As for the bayonet charge: are they issued bayonets? Without corks on the end, that is. And if so, I'll create a diversion by calling their parents and telling them that I'm their son's shift supervisor at Mickey D's, and we need them to come in right away. And the charge would have to be on a weekend, right!?!? Relax troops, I'm only riffing on the Reserve stereotypes :warstory:

Al

 

[12alfa]

Ah yes Total force.....

Well a lot was learned from that great program.

Shall I list a few for comments?

1. Some Units failed in this big time.
The reasons are vast but a quick general view form some one who was there before, during, and now some 10+ years later.

It could have been the greatest way to fully have 1 force, but the mindset of both had to have made a change that was not built into the system. The regs that came to my unit were told they were now classed as a res unit, not a good way to start our integration The reg force had a view and a pre-determined knowledge bias on the past (some good, some bad). The same was true for the res.
It was on the reg force units the biggest change, and they were not ready, unlike the res's , that are masters of change, we have to be due to the lack of all the resources normally found in the reg force system. Most were away from a large base that they had been the norm, when the moving from out lying res units and back became a travel allowance as well as meal $ problems with the way there was different payouts, although one DND standard, you could see the writing on the wall.
This one, but many were seen during this experiment with total force
. How committed would the reg's been under such conditions?

2. My unit did well (unlike the previous comments) in the long run. Yes we had a small turnout at X-Mass dinners during this time, but after our dinners are larger, and I think that if you feel like a second class partner, would you feel welcome at such a event, or rather spend some time with your family during this season?
Now the time has passed and we feel like a family again and even with the reg now posted with us. A large number of the total force troops did not want to be where they were, and made themselves, res, and life in general a stressful time back them.

Our Training has improved with after the reg force in bulk left, leaving 10 or so at 1st now down to 5, that wanted to make a difference. The last 3-4 CO's that were reg force were a big help to get the equipment, trg'ing that we could have not got on our own. The 8-9 times to the simnet has improved us as a unit and our reputation down there was started by a reg force CO.
  And of course a trip to Knox/Simnet/Ucoff has the biggest turn out, it's the reason most res's join, to train, fight, and operate the equipment do don't have as a unit. And if the truth were told it was a "swan" for the reg's not the res's. I say this do to the FACT that we never had the "free time" ( 24+ hrs) to take in training in Louisville and it's drinking/party facilities. WE arrive on Sunday, Monday we hit the simnet (08:00 - 21:00) till Friday ,cleaning Saturday till noon, RNR till Sunday morn to fly out and back to our families and work. Uncommitted?


3. This was before the SHARP trg'ng, now I feel it would work. The system is in place now to deal with the problems we had with people's mindsets, on both sides.

4. The positive thing that came out of Total force out number the bad for the res, on the other hand not so for the reg force, they left with a view that was not good, driven by the non-system in place. The view they got while here was a false one, brought on by the change that both sides were not prepared for, including the army in general. I got to command a LeoC1 on a trace, started my yearly trip to the Simnet, got new friends, seen both sides of a unit sops and saw what could have happened if it worked , I view this time as a positive thing now.

And we are closer to that state with the reg support we have now, no personally problems, better training, more equipment, and more res working with, or in some place instead of reg force people.
We have our own troops keeping the cougar fleet in Gagetown maintained and ready for both the regs and for our use, can't see how this would change for tanks, but hey what do I know, heheheh.

I can't change the views of others, some have changed on their own for a better view of the way it has become, some will never change, for me ..Change is a way of life in the reserves has been, and will never be any different.

We the reserves are now I think, capable of doing all of the jobs, and tasks of a regular force unit, if this were not the case, why are so many reserve's in the same positions/jobs once held by reg force troops.

We could maintain a tank sqn or whatever piece of kit the reg force does, or the army gives us, we however will never hold the mindset of some of them in regards to our abilities. Our young troops have no knowledge of the Total force program, to them now the unit is no different with the both res and reg people we have, as it should be. Some of us old timer's still remembering though, just to spot stop/ID that from happening again.

We won't get tanks, that's a given. We will however be given a large role in the army, some of us view this as a good thing, and others regard this as a threat. The sides are still there, them and us, this friends will never change........Unacceptable?

 

[12alfa]

We are stretched thin as it is, and nobody wants to work on somebody elses vehicles (you know that we (the Reg Force) would end doing all the dirty work while the Reserves would "quit" after all the fun was had). Please don't make me laugh at you by saying that wouldn't happen, because I will.
Al

Oh really, then do tell how we conduct those same FTX's now, and still do the "dirty work " ?

That was the whole point    duh!

Full timers (reg) to prep the veh/plans/area for the res to train and not spend what little time/money on what could be done by full time staff, and then the same full time pers to clean and return said equipment. What the heck did you have to do when we were not there during the week?
This is support that we needed, but as you stated it was looked on as a cop out, too bad it was working to our advantage. we got more trg time per weekend on trg'ing that we required.

We solved that problem without "full time" help, sending our own (res) troops there on callout to do most prep/after work for the unit. It's workin well now.

 

[George Wallace]

We the reserves are now I think, capable of doing all of the jobs, and tasks of a regular force unit, if this were not the case, why are so many reserve's in the same positions/jobs once held by reg force troops.

We could maintain a tank sqn or whatever piece of kit the reg force does, or the army gives us, we however will never hold the mindset of some of them in regards to our abilities. Our young troops have no knowledge of the Total force program, to them now the unit is no different with the both res and reg people we have, as it should be. Some of us old timer's still remembering though, just to spot stop/ID that from happening again.

I seem to have a bit of a different point of view on these statements.   Yes, there are a lot of Reservists being employed in Regular Force positions, but it is not to say that they can now be counted on to fill the role of 'Tankers' in the Reserve World, especially if they were only MLVW drivers.   They are employed full time to replace or fill a position in the Regular Force due to manpower shortages.   They can not be sacrificed to work full time back in a Reserve Unit, for that is the exact reason they are being employed as augmentees full time to the Regular Force.   The money is there to have them augment the Regs, but not to work as a Reservist in Moncton, Sackville, Summerside, or wherever.

As for you crewcommanding a Leopard; well whoopee ding!   Prime Minister Trudeau did too.   Is it then the consensus that he is now a qualified Leopard Tank Crewcommander?  I don't thinks so.  To ride in the turret, as so many Reservists do, in Leopards and Coyotes is a mistake that will haunt us.  First off they are not qualified and don't have the proper taining in "Misfire Drills", operation of the Hydraulics, Submersion Hydraulics, Gunnery etc. as applicable.  They don't have knowledge of Safety in regard to Gun Drills.  On a whole there is a lot that we allow Reservists to do for familiarization that is WRONG.  You now have the impression from your experience Crewcommanding that you can do the job.  You may be totally out of touch with reality.  That is a fault that the Regs are compounding everytime they allow a unqualified person fill a position.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

GW

 

[Recce41]

OK
I've been reading  this crap for the last couple of days. I have been polite now, well F#$% it. Back in the 90s, we gave or Cougars to the GGHGs/OntR. They sign for them on a Friday. Beat the living crap out on them and then hand them over on Mon (dirty,broke, no faults reported). We lost( I'll say had stolen : camnets, gunnery tools, drivers tools tents ,etc.) in a F$%^in weekend.
12A don't give me we could crap, I had a Reserve Gunner on one of my Bosnia tours. It didn't even know how to do basic gunner maintance. Had a MCPL (Res) fired from being the To ldrs gunner to the "A"s gunner ( most jr gunner). In 02, had the GGHG come up and use our Coyotes, damn two were grounded for a month. Again lost more kit on a weekend than we do in a month EX.
In the US, Res/NG soldiers have to parade. Its not my goldfish died, so I cannot come and play. Get F%^&ing Real. It takes 8 hrs of maintance for every hr of driving on a LEO or any other tank. Even the reg force doesn't have time to fix them. And if you think the Regs would fix, your junk. Think again. Boy that felt good! Back to my old self!
:evil: :tank:

 

[Slim]

"In 02, had the GGHG come up and use our Coyotes, damn two were grounded for a month. Again lost more kit on a weekend than we do in a month EX."

A bit rough perhaps...but the truth none-the-less...

And I will say, once again, that the U.S. Army N.G. has a FULL-TIME set of maintainers who do nothing but FIX STUFF THAT THE NG BROKE! They have the budget. We don't. ITs that simple.

Slim

 

[12alfa]

-I seem to have a bit of a different point of view on these statements. 

That is a given.

-Yes, there are a lot of Reservists being employed in Regular Force positions, but it is not to say that they can now be counted on to fill the role of 'Tankers' in the Reserve World, especially if they were only MLVW drivers.

Who said they would?

- As for you crewcommanding a Leopard; well whoopee ding!
-
Just the repond I would expect, you don't disappoint, ever think why Total force did not work?

-Is it then the consensus that he is now a qualified Leopard Tank Crewcommander?  I don't thinks so.

Don't recall saying so, or have you asked anyone else here, or was this a personal census?

-To ride in the turret, as so many Reservists do, in Leopards and Coyotes is a mistake that will haunt us. 

My statement I believe was, I did a trace, far cry for riding in a turret, or do you know the difference?


-First off they are not qualified and don't have the proper taining in "Misfire Drills", operation of the Hydraulics, Submersion Hydraulics, Gunnery etc. as applicable.  They don't have knowledge of Safety in regard to Gun Drills.

As this was a trace without ammo, I fail to see what good knowing Misfire drills, etc would have made. I finished the trace, the WO debriefed me and we both carried on. Thank god it was a good WO and not someone with the attitude you are providing for all of us to see, had a hard day at the office maybe?
AS to safety in regards to gun drills, I have survived gun camps here and in Germany, with both the 105 and 76, I now am employed I on the back deck as ds or safety, A fact you seem to have forgotten to ask before ranting, but carry on...

-On a whole there is a lot that we allow Reservists to do for familiarization that is WRONG.

Oh ! Thank you for â Å“allowing â Å“ us to train.

-You now have the impression from your experience Crewcommanding that you can do the job.

That would seem  to be YOUR impression, I never stated such, but your correct, I lack the attitude, heheheh

-You may be totally out of touch with reality.

It would seem also that I'm not alone in that department.

-That is a fault that the Regs are compounding everytime they allow a unqualified person fill a position.

To admit to your faults is good, I can see hope for you yet, we should talk more often, in time you will be ok, maybe a â Å“happy mealâ ? and Mc D's would be in order. Your stress level seems to be high, or am I reading something into your comment that's not really there.

-Sorry to burst your bubble.

Funny you should say that (but not suprising0. Just after my last post, I was thinking, how we, before total force we wanted to be just like the reg's, but soon after changed our minds. Nope, I think it was best not to be just like the reg's that were here with us.
Not all had some problems, and most have left the forces, but a few are still among us.
Have the same problem at my civi job with people who can't/won't change with the times, and who are stuck in the past, closed minded, grump old men, just a joy to be around.

Now I'm not saying that anyone here in, has a problem that anyone could tell by his/her  comments......

 

[12alfa]

OK
I've been reading   this crap for the last couple of days. I have been polite now, well F#$% it. Back in the 90s, we gave or Cougars to the GGHGs/OntR. They sign for them on a Friday. Beat the living crap out on them and then hand them over on Mon (dirty,broke, no faults reported). We lost( I'll say had stolen : camnets, gunnery tools, drivers tools tents ,etc.) in a F$%^in weekend.
12A don't give me we could crap, I had a Reserve Gunner on one of my Bosnia tours. It didn't even know how to do basic gunner maintance. Had a MCPL (Res) fired from being the To ldrs gunner to the "A"s gunner ( most jr gunner). In 02, had the GGHG come up and use our Coyotes, damn two were grounded for a month. Again lost more kit on a weekend than we do in a month EX.
In the US, Res/NG soldiers have to parade. Its not my goldfish died, so I cannot come and play. Get F%^&ing Real. It takes 8 hrs of maintance for every hr of driving on a LEO or any other tank. Even the reg force doesn't have time to fix them. And if you think the Regs would fix, your junk. Think again. Boy that felt good! Back to my old self!
:evil: :tank:

Glad to help out on your mental state ;D, I think we all know without the res to beatup on, you would have to beatup on yourselves, and we would not want that, LOl

I too can tell of such stories The end result.....zip!!! LOL

We have good and bad units, can you admit to the same, or would pulling teeth be easer? I can admit to this can you?

We have had rss staff here that were sent to us because they were , well lets say better off with some one else that their reg force unit. Both forces have problems, we both know this, but if we can admit to it it's a start.
I'm here to vent on, I'm allways trying to help out my fellow army brothers, heheheh   VENT!!   VENT!!!!

 

[Slim]

Dude

You have gotten angry where it wasn't required and missed the point.

I'll say this as plain as I can.

The regs spend an average of 5 days a week at work (the army) when not in the field.

In the armoured corps AT LEAST three of those days are stables! meaning that the tanks and whatever else get worked on.

The drivers sign for and are responsible for their own tank. If it doesn't work the driver must be able to explain why!

Can a reservist spend that much care and attention and time on a single vehicle?

No, of course not.

Not your fault, just the way it is.

Slim

 

[12alfa]

Dude

You have gotten angry where it wasn't required and missed the point.

I'll say this as plain as I can.

The regs spend an average of 5 days a week at work (the army) when not in the field.

In the armoured corps AT LEAST three of those days are stables! meaning that the tanks and whatever else get worked on.

The drivers sign for and are responsible for their own tank. If it doesn't work the driver must be able to explain why!

Can a reservist spend that much care and attention and time on a single vehicle?

No, of course not.

Not your fault, just the way it is.

Slim

I am quite aware of the mantance required for a tank having spent 6 monts in Germany with the RCD's in 1974 on Centurions, no need to point out the obvious here.

The point that you are missing   knowing or not is that we maintain our Cougars to a large degree. And Our regt had tanks up to 68-69 that we also maintained, so to say that we could not maintain them is false, look up the res units after the WW2 years. You will find some of them holding, training, and yes maintaining them. The times have changed, granted. The money back in them years was as it is today (scarce), the troops were few, we had support from reg force maintainers. But to say we can't do this now with support is wrong, it may be hard for you all to get over this, read some history, relax.

In today world we won't, but not from the fact we can't, we will never be given the task.

The facts are plain. We have in our history had tanks, maintained them, and trained along side our reg force brothers.
It is also a fact that you can't state we could not do the task, for this fact to be true we (the res) would have had to be given the chance and failed, then and only then could you say we can't. See my point?

It's only true if you can prove we can't.   And you and the rest here because the army has not given the res them to faill with have only your opions to base this on.

Its in my view   compared to the PM saying " as the finance minister I know nothing about 100 million going no where"

The facts as we know them now do not support this statement. Where are yor facts, I have mine. We need facts not opinions.

This is my point, clear as mud now.

PS, I'm not mad, just open minded to the facts, however the end result.

 

[ZipperHead]

I think that it must be my son Johnny (12A) who is the only one in step here....

Between George (who was a MCpl when I joined), Recce41 (who was in the Reserves and has done a sh!tload of work both here in Gagetown and in LFCA) and myself (16 years in, 3 years as a Total Foce Hussar here in Gagetown, and have done 3 tours that had Reservists on them) I guess we don't know a whole lot. We are the ones who can't see the forest for the trees. I will always admit that there are major problems with the Regular Force. One of the biggest, IMO, is allowing Reserves to Component Transfer or direct entry, or whatever we call it today, without allowing the "gaining" unit to assess the members ability (before it's too late). We take the losing unit's CO's word that Tpr/Cpl/MCpl/Sgt/WO Bloggins is good-to-go. Seeing as how a reservist can become a Cpl in 2 years, and it takes a Reg Force soldier 4 years (and that's day in, day out, not 1 night a week, 1 weekend a month, and MAYBE 2 weeks per summer) I can see how the quality would be the same. And before we had Total Force career courses (which seems to have petered out) I can imagine that a Reserve CLC/JLC would have measured up to a 13 week Reg CLC. Don't even start with 6A's and Officer Courses (did I tell you about the time that I, and 16 others, did a RESO III Recce for 2 Reserve officers. Nice ratio of staff to students...... and did I also mention how that it was better than 75% Reg Force staff to support those 2 Reserves). Anyway, I had to give drill to a direct entry Tpr, who was on defaulters, and he couldn't do turns on the march. At all. So I spent that time teaching him how to do said turns on the march. I don't know what the Reserves do, but when I was in Cadets, we spent a lot of time learning drill, and learning fieldcraft, and map & compass, and....... If the Reserves don't have these labour intensive vehicles to look after, what DO they do? As told to me by one of the instructors from the School who "volunteered" to go down to Moncton on a weekend (at the tail end of a 6A), one of the first questions asked of him was "when is the Mess open?". Good priorities......

Anyway, you seem to have taken this as a personal attack. Don't. It's an attack on the system that allows it. If a soldier can't do drill, it's not his fault if he was never trained. If a soldier can't fire a weapon, the same thing. Maybe the Reserves should take a long hard look in the mirror to see what's broken, and why: is it perhaps their fault, and not the big, bad Reg's fault? Hopefully, 12A, you are one of the good guys fighting the good fight. I know I am. I am sick of the "School mentality" and I will tilt at the windmills, and change what I can, where I can, to make the students coming out of here glad they came, not wishing they could leave. It's a tall order, but it's up to us as Snr NCO's to do the right thing, and train soldiers and officers, not have in-fighting and bickering (which we've done here, but this is not the workplace, this is supposed to be our "leisure" time)

Al

 

[Infanteer]

What's a tank?

:dontpanic:

Love,
Infanteer

(PS.   Before we dicsuss more intensive rolls for reservists, why don't we discuss getting reservists up to the same level of qualifications (which can't be fixed easily) as opposed to the same level of training (which is easier to fix).   This is something that the Aussies do and I think until we do it here, comparing reservists to regulars is like comparing apples to oranges.   Then Sgt. Luomala doesn't have to instruct trained soldiers how to turn on the march, something I was never taught in the reserves.)