Leopard Exhaust - Psychological Warfare or Not

[OldSolduer]

THAT is one fine looking machine!!! Good for you zipperheads!! (joking, infantry here)

I heard that the exhausts were designed to psychologically put fear into the enemy. True or just a myth? One should be afraid of it anyways.

 

[ironduke57]

...
I heard that the exhausts were designed to psychologically put fear into the enemy. True or just a myth? One should be afraid of it anyways.

Myth.
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Pic´s of danish forces in A´stan (incl. Leo2´s):
- http://haeren.smugmug.com/gallery/4297079_uXdXJ#P-1-9
(Leo´s starting at page 8.)

And to the canadian´s over there. You clearly falling behind regarding pic´s. j/k 

Regards,
ironduke57

 

[Shamrock]

I heard that the exhausts were designed to psychologically put fear into the enemy. True or just a myth? One should be afraid of it anyways.

Can you imagine the process that would go into this?  An engineer and a psychologist get together to design an exhaust...

The Leo exhaust, en masse and at a distance, isn't really that distinct from most other tank exhausts.  I think the fear comes from a bunch of tanks coming looking for a fight.

 

[George Wallace]

OK!

How many of you have actually heard the Exhaust of a Leopard?  How many have heard the Exhaust of a M1?  A Challenger?  LeClerc?  T-72?

Having heard several of those, the Leopard Exhaust is very distinctive.  I have been in Ft Drum and never heard the Exhausts of the M1's when they revved up, but the Troop of Leopard 1's left the whole Base with the impression that they were one "Mean Tank" when they started up.

Yes!  The Exhaust of the Leopard is a "Psychological Weapon".

 

[Nfld Sapper]

OK!

How many of you have actually heard the Exhaust of a Leopard?  How many have heard the Exhaust of a M1?  A Challenger?  LeClerc?  T-72?

Having heard several of those, the Leopard Exhaust is very distinctive.  I have been in Ft Drum and never heard the Exhausts of the M1's when they revved up, but the Troop of Leopard 1's left the whole Base with the impression that they were one "Mean Tank" when they started up.

Yes!  The Exhaust of the Leopard is a "Psychological Weapon".

I'll second what Mr. Wallace has said, the Leopard has a distinct exhaust sound. For the record my experience with a Leopard was with the ARV at WTP. Nothing is more comforting when you break an MTVL/MTVE and hear the ARV coming over the hill to recover you. 

 

[Shamrock]

Yes!  The Exhaust of the Leopard is a "Psychological Weapon".

Source.

As we await Mr. Wallace's source, allow me to prebut.  For the exhaust to be a "psychological weapon," considerable things would have to be known.  Most importantly, we'd have to understand the effects of sound on the human psyche.  This is about as possible as applied aromatherapy. 

The leopard does have certain design features that take advantage of physical properties of sound.  Ascription of these values to psychological phenomenon is superstition -- for them to have the mythical psychological effects, one would expect everyone in the battlefield to suffer from them.  These effects would not discriminate by uniform.  And why, 60 years after the tanks desing, would they be limited to only one tank?

 

[Koenigsegg]

It may not have been intended that way, But maybe it performs as one anyway...

Even unit insignia in certain times had a significant psychological effect, Without meaning to in the first place.  So what is stopping the exhaust from being one?
The sound of tank tracks have a psychological effect, because you know what is making those sounds.  After a few run ins with a Leopard 2, and you recognize the intimidating exhaust, I think it would work too.

 

[Shamrock]

(deleted, was meant as a PM)

 

[aesop081]

Yes!  The Exhaust of the Leopard is a "Psychological Weapon".

The question was regarding wether or not it was designed as such.

 

[TCBF]

Source.
As we await Mr. Wallace's source, allow me to prebut.  For the exhaust to be a "psychological weapon," considerable things would have to be known.  Most importantly, we'd have to understand the effects of sound on the human psyche.  This is about as possible as applied aromatherapy. 

- We already understand those effects.  We don't have to re-incarnate Anne Frank to ask her if police sirens in the night had an effect on her as they approached her hiding place.  "Moaning minnies" had a side effect on allied soldiers..  etc.

The leopard does have certain design features that take advantage of physical properties of sound.  Ascription of these values to psychological phenomenon is superstition -- for them to have the mythical psychological effects, one would expect everyone in the battlefield to suffer from them.  These effects would not discriminate by uniform.  And why, 60 years after the tanks desing, would they be limited to only one tank?

- Effects don't discriminate by uniform  - unless the wearers of one particular uniform suffer from a noise in a way that others don't.  The sound of a buzz bomb (V1) rocket motor had a different effect on the French farmers it flew over than the Londoners it flew over.  I doubt the senior citizens of Hamburg or Dresden would appreciate our sole Lancaster bomber flying over their city at night nowadays.  As for the 'one tank'  MTU - formerly known as Maybach - built the engines for the Panther and Tiger tanks.  They know their audience.

 

[retiredgrunt45]

I must agree with George, I've heard various tank exhausts, M1, Challenger, T-62, T-72 and none compare with the distinct low rumble sound of the Leo. This sound resonates for miles and its like you hear a whole troop of tanks when actually there may be only one or two.

Love that sound!!

I can honestly say that if I heard this an and enemy combatant, it would give me the willy's.

The Americans had a few russian tanks in Hohenfels germany that they used to keep around and drive the crap out off, a couple T-62' a few 55's and a T-72 and they all sounded like farm trackers. We got the 5 cent tour every year.

You knew when the armoured guys were going out to the trng area with their Leo's, because you could still hear them from miles away.

 

[OldSolduer]

I was on ex in Shilo when the Germans were still there. It was about 0200 hrs and I was under the stars, having a nap when I heard that distinctive tank approach. It's unsettling when you can't see what is making that sound. I made sure to get up and make myself visible.
At least we know about it. Think of the persons who have no clue about this tank, and they hear this thing before they see it.

 

[Shamrock]

If you were dug in (or asleep in comfy sleeping bag) and heard the approach of an uncertain amount of enemy T-80's? 

 

[retiredgrunt45]

It may not have been designed to be a Psychological factor, but for someone who has never heard this sound before, it may as well have. Like old soldier mentioned, you can hear it, but you have no idea from which direction its coming, that in itself is enough to be unnerving to anyone who has never heard this before.

We were always told by higher to make sure we made ourselves visible when we were working with the armoured, or when they were in close proximity to us a few grid squares away. Because even though we could hear them, we had no idea were they where coming from. It's like listening to a good "surround sound" system, the sound resonates at you from every direction.

 

[Shamrock]

- Effects don't discriminate by uniform  - unless the wearers of one particular uniform suffer from a noise in a way that others don't.  The sound of a buzz bomb (V1) rocket motor had a different effect on the French farmers it flew over than the Londoners it flew over.  I doubt the senior citizens of Hamburg or Dresden would appreciate our sole Lancaster bomber flying over their city at night nowadays.  As for the 'one tank'  MTU - formerly known as Maybach - built the engines for the Panther and Tiger tanks.  They know their audience.

Here you're describing a separate phenomenon.  The fear stemming from sounds of the V2, Lancaster, Bf 109, wives et al are examples of classic conditioning.  A stimulus (engine sounds) is paired with a response (fear stemming from the attacks) and after a few such pairings a conditioned response occurs -- fear to the sound.  People condition well to sound, but even better to smell and best of all to taste.

In saying the leopard exhaust was designed as a psychological weapon, I assume others are asserting it was designed to terrify the enemy on first encounter (and that this fear is significantly greater than the approach of any blue forces and significantly greater than the approach of any armour formation).  This means it would precede any sort of conditioning and strike the brain directly and trigger a fear response1.  For this, we'd have to understand the way sound interacts with the various functions and structures of the brain, and would have to be able to replicate these sounds regardless of the RPM's of the vehicle and the weather, distance and terrain to the enemy.  And if this is the case, this effect would easily be defeated with a $2 white noise generator.

It's entirely possible for the leo to have conditioning effects on those who encounter it in the same way the above do.  It has a distinguishable sound, the encounter produces a response, matching occurs.  However, this can easily generalize to any diesel engine -- blue could approach with zoombooms after the first few encounters and still elicit a fear response.  That is how I can justify saying the leopard is not a distinctive-sounding vehicle.  Yes, it's low, loud, grumbly and rumbly, but so is every other diesel engine. 


1.  These responses are typically called 4F responses -- fight, flight, food, and sexual reproduction.  The propensity for tankers to be eternally eating and the "love" they and others feel for the leopard could be supporting evidence of Leo's ability to elicit these responses simply by its unique sound.  The fighting spirit it evokes in those around it could be attributed to this too, but it could also be a product of conditioning.

 

[George Wallace]

ʞɔoɹɯɐɥs, ʞɔoɹɯɐɥs, ʞɔoɹɯɐɥs.  I see you are playing Devil's advocate and word/mind games with the folks.  You know darn well that German Engineers have the expertise to muffle the engines of the tank if they had wanted to.  Let's just say that they must have been inspired by the Highland Bns they fought in WW I and WW II to know the effects of sound on an enemy.  Their fear of the pipes must have been why they designed the Stuka in the way they did.  In modern times they applied some of this science to the Leopard.  You know darn well that the Luchs is as quiet as a Ferret moving (after they solved the brake noise problem).  Why else would they leave the "Meanness" in the exhaust of the Leopard.  When the Americans and French pulled out of the joint tank program and went off and developed the M1 and LeClerc, they went for stealth, not realizing lots of noise also works as stealth in a fashion; but more important, it demoralizes enemy troops.

 

[Shamrock]

George, you're confusing issues here.

The effects of the Pipes to en combatants can again be attributable to classical conditioning.  Distinguishable sound + effects of battle = fear of bagpipes.  In recreating a distinguishable, similar sound, engineers sought to recreate the effects of a distinguishable, similar sound paired with the effects of battle.  I realize this is entirely probable in the design of the leopard, but it still requires the matching of the sound with the effects of battle.  The first encounter in any of these is unlikely to elicit a f- response, but subsequent encounters may/will.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

George,

I think everyone knew what was meant. Well, everyone but Shamrock possibly. When you hear Leopards in the vicinity, you know your going to the hurt locker (if the enemy). He wants to argue discuss the intricies of verbage and phsycology\physiology. It got boring after the opening salvo. However, if you two want to tear the train off on a tangent, perhaps you can go to PM and the rest of us can retire from Professor Peabody and the Sunrise Semester lecture on the 'Art of Noise'.

 

[Shamrock]

George,

I think everyone knew what was meant. Well, everyone but Shamrock possibly. When you hear Leopards in the vicinity, you know your going to the hurt locker (if the enemy). He wants to argue discuss the intricies of verbage and phsycology\physiology. It got boring after the opening salvo. However, if you two want to tear the train off on a tangent, perhaps you can go to PM and the rest of us can retire from Professor Peabody and the Sunrise Semester lecture on the 'Art of Noise'.

I'll try to use smaller words next time.  I apologize for my lack of stimulating content.  I see a myth, I address it. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'll try to use smaller words next time.  I apologize for my lack of stimulating content.  I see a myth, I address it. 

ʞɔoɹɯɐɥs,

We recognise the intent and reasoning, just not the tenacious attitude when the generalization was understood. We're not mental midgets, no matter what you think, so there's no need to be condecending. But thanks for being caring and sharing