They are coming here to study and are allowed to work to a limited extent. That limit was loosened and could stand to be tightened back up. But your question about “why” was a simple question with a simple answer.
Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???
- Thread starter Altair
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Why do we allowed them to work 24hrs, off campus, doing any type of work possible? Which other countries in the G7 or EU allow foreign students to do the same? Answer, none of them do.
Why are we? Our 15-24 youth unemployed rate is sky high, it’s ridiculous.
See the first 2/3 of my reply that you quoted.
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should have chosen supply management
Quirky
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My guess is that universities will see sharp drops in enrolment from their cash cows.
That’s exactly what has happened, and it’s having major impacts on domestic students. The immediate massive hit to schools’ finances has resulted in many fewer contract instructors being hired, and we have significantly fewer course offerings now than in years past. In some cases it simply means fewer elective courses are available, in other cases it’s hindering students’ progress through mandatory parts of their programs. In extreme cases entire programs are being cut entirely or from some campuses.
So yes- sharp drops in enrolment from cash cows, and that hurts the rest of us.
In the grand scheme of things it’s probably still a necessary and reasonable policy choice for Canada writ large. I’m just describing some of the impacts experienced by Canadians as a result.
that is because they have become a business rather than an institute of learning. Getting in to med school used to require and honours mark i.e. 80% now it is plus 90. Do you want to bet the kid from Saudi that has your daughter's spot got over 90. But he does have 25 thousand or more for tuition. It isn't just the jobs that are being outsourced, it is the placements too.
Out of curiosity, what different business model do you propose that would increase course selection and availability? How do you propose that be funded?
You seem to have picked med school specifically for your reply, but I’m speaking more generally than that.
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Maybe we could start will the availability of student loans for all students, regardless of their parent income level.
The cost of roughly 25k a year in Ontario for a kid to live and eat in Residence, pay tuition, fees and books is really no different than someone in Connecticut or Michigan or Ohio attending a ‘State’ university but yet pretty much every US student is guaranteed a 5,500$ loan as a starting point regardless of their parents income.
ArmyRick
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First observation. My MIL (mother-in-law) worked at York University for 40 years. She has more than a few tales of downright wasteful spending by University faculty and staff that could embarrass the Liberals. And that is saying something.
Cry me a river, damn near EVERYONE is being forced to be frugal and extremely efficient, so can the universities. Not to mention many Liberal arts and gender studies type programs can be shown the exit.
About 4 years ago I was speaking to someone at U of T receivables office and they counted on foreign students (mostly Chinese) to bring in 50k per year. They are always adding more residences. It is being operated as a for profit corporation.
Sure, that would improve access to school for domestic students whose family incomes are too high for government supported loans, but who don’t actually receive financial support from mom and dad. But that doesn’t mean more money coming in to schools from domestic students. It would not replace the cash cows.
I’m sure that, like anywhere, there’s some wasteful spending that universities and colleges could work on reducing. I’m all for that, and right now a lot of them are going through that exercise. That doesn’t negate the impact on domestic students from lost course choices as inevitably some of the cuts hit contract instructors.
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True
Altair
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Federal Politics, Major Projects and Public Safety
Download the report to discover this month's Canadian federal voting intentions.
leger360.com
LPC-47 percent
CPC-38 percent
BQ-6 percent
NDP-6 percent
GRN-1 percent
I'm happy we get polls like this if only to convince the CPC, BQ and NDP to keep their powder dry. Although I don't know how the CPC plans to handle the disconnect between their voters and the rest of Canadians. 36 percent of Canadians think PP can beat MC but 72 percent of CPC voters think PP can beat MC. Almost makes me think the CPC base will be pushing them to bring down the government at the earliest possible moment despite that probably being very bad for the party.
perhaps starting with eliminating the "basket-weaving" courses with the associated assistant profs and infra-structure would be a start. These courses do very little to facilitate future earning prospects but are primarily a way to put initials behind your name and contribute to the university's bottom line. As mentioned by others, provide low-cost financing both during and after course completion. Insist that a decent percentage of course seats are filled by Canadian asses and set the entry level marks at a realistic level to achieve that. The principal reason for the high tuition fees is salary. Those have increased far above the level of inflation as a result of the administration caving in following the strike a year or two back from what I can see. I don't know if the increases were justified or not and won't comment on that directly but pay levels must be compatible with income; if they are not, any organization will go broke and eliminating your national students to milk the foreign market isn't the way to compensate. I admit that there isn't a simple way to balance that but when your doctors and nurses, lawyers and engineers all hail from Bangladesh (no slight intended believe me) but were educated in Canada, brother you have a problem
daftandbarmy
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Do you have any data supporting an overabundance of ‘basket weaving’ degrees? I mean, I have a couple myself depending how you define them (criminology and law), both popular programs at my school… Doesn’t seem to have hurt my earnings prospects at all, and I’m now pursuing my master’s on the side. Surely by now we have some good longitudinal data of where different degree programs tend to take one in terms of income. I’m not doubting that some have more economic value, some have less, and that a lot more than just the words on the paper on the wall go into eventual income attainment. But I’m sure there’s data on that.
That impacts affordability in terms of people who cannot currently afford domestic tuition now being able to. It doesn’t result in more revenue for the schools, and in fact would probably worsen the ‘subsidized basket-weaving degrees’ phenomenon.
Yup, salaries for instructors and administrators is definitely a big part of the fiscal picture. Particularly in the case of tenured professors that’s hard to change, which is why eliminating contracts instructors is the easy button. Unfortunately the contract instructors provide a lot of the interesting and useful electives that round out programs.
Do we have data on national origin of Canadian doctors graduating and being licensed in the past, say, five years?
yeah I do. Our local clinic has 12 doctors: 7 are off-shore, 3 are old and 2 are mid-40's. As for the fluff courses, many of the sociology programmes go nowhere now. Archaeology is a come-on that eventually employs only a few of the graduates and they have to find a college to sponsor them. Better to reduce the numbers. In the college arena, a few years back there were more students in the reporter/film programmes than there were total jobs in Canada. I wouldn't put criminology into a fluff category but I would place many of the liberal arts there.
Respectfully, that’s anecdote from a single site. I meant data across the board. It would also need to be assessed whether there’s any deficit in quality. If foreign students come to Canada, go to med school here, and then practice medicine here and do it well, I don’t see a policy problem.
Right but the metric wasn’t direct employment in the specific field, but rather ‘future earnings prospects’. Outside of specific professional programs, lots of people end up with employment that’s not aligned with what is written on their degree (and I recognize the irony in my case- within policing we actually discourage potential applicants from pursuing criminal justice degrees. Mine managed to work out anyway). A university education, writ large, is definitely tied to higher income and socioeconomic status, but I think that aggregates too much, because I acknowledge it’ll capture professional programs. I wonder if there’s anything out there that assesses it based on type of degree program? Look at longitudinal income growth categorized by types of bachelor degree? I personally still think you’ll see income improvement, because ‘a degree’ generally is still a box to be ticked for a lot of things, particularly in the public sector.
Anyway- we’ve sidetracked (an interesting one). I’m not arguing we should have such wide open foreign student visas. I’m in favour generally of fewer and with more limits on employment. I’m just pointing out that it does come with costs too, and I happen to be in a position to directly see and experience that.
