Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[Nvlgzr]

Huawei cell phones are 100% ok in a SCIF.

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. No phone (even landlines ) is safe in SCIF especially Huawei. Bell and Rogers both have Huawei telephone switches. Justin was supposed to ban Huawei but backed off after the 2 Michael’s were imprisoned by China.
Huawei destroyed Nortel, the crown jewel of technology in Canada.

 

[brihard]

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not. No phone (even landlines ) is safe in SCIF especially Huawei. Bell and Rogers both have Huawei telephone switches. Justin was supposed to ban Huawei but backed off after the 2 Michael’s were imprisoned by China.
Huawei destroyed Nortel, the crown jewel of technology in Canada.

As a general rule of thumb, in any given situation, assume @dapaterson is being sarcastic until compelling evidence points otherwise.

 

[dapaterson]

As a general rule of thumb, in any given situation, assume @dapaterson is being sarcastic until compelling evidence points otherwise.

Even then, I'd double check.

 

[Nvlgzr]

Frankly, I’m not sure if we can trust ANY foreign car manufacturer to set up manufacturing in this country. The Americans will simply say if those manufacturers don’t leave Canada then, through tariffs or some other threat, they won’t be able to sell their cars in the U.S. Trump, Lutnick (aka NutDick) and others in the administration can smell blood and are intentionally out to destroy us.

Agreed. Trump made it clear in his meeting with Carney that he isn’t going to allow any Canadian built car in. GM has already announced they are pulling part of the Silverado production from Oshawa.
Just to clarify, there are 5 foreign car manufacturers in Canada: 2 American, 1 Italian, 2 Japanese. Ford hasn’t produced cars in Oakville for a few years they have said they are going to retool for a new vehicle but I bet that plan gets canned in favour of USA. Toyota has hinted about moving some production too.

 

[Furniture]

If the choice don't sell cars, only parts and raw materials like lutnick says, or we bring in BYD or some magical European automaker others seem to think will come here

The thing is the USA will put extreme pressure on anyone looking to set up shop here. The only country that could not care less would probably be China. Germans would cave for sure. South Korean, Japanese, they cave for sure. China, not so much.

That said, the yanks have laid their cards on the table. They don't want us to have a auto industry, period.

What is the obsession with building cars here?

If America wants to back out of our auto deal, we can shop elsewhere (not China) for a deal, or just make parts and import cars like most other countries.

Going full China on America with cars will guarantee that they will be out to destroy our entire economy, not just the auto manufacturing part of it.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Have a read and ask yourself this 1 question - When was the last time you heard a Liberal PM say to a Canadian audience that ‘he loves the US.’
I don’t believe that it’s ever occurred to my knowledge in my 56yrs years on this planet. Tory PM’s, Mulroney 100% for certain, quite possibly Harper.

“I don’t get up first thing in the morning, think about the U.S. relationship,” he said, “As much as I love the U.S., I think about Canada. I think about building Canada.”

Canada and U.S. 'much more coordinated' than it appears, Carney says to summit

Carney spoke about hockey, the World Series, and said that Canada had the “best deal of anyone” when it came to U.S. tariffs.

nationalpost.com

 

[Altair]

What is the obsession with building cars here?

If America wants to back out of our auto deal, we can shop elsewhere (not China) for a deal, or just make parts and import cars like most other countries.

Going full China on America with cars will guarantee that they will be out to destroy our entire economy, not just the auto manufacturing part of it.

Oh I don't know...14B 94b to GDP and 500-600k in jobs tied to it...No biggie. Toss it in the bin, eh?

Edit: I was wrong. 16-18b in direct auto manufacturing, 94b when you consider the entire sector.

 

[daftandbarmy]

What is the obsession with building cars here?

If America wants to back out of our auto deal, we can shop elsewhere (not China) for a deal, or just make parts and import cars like most other countries.

Going full China on America with cars will guarantee that they will be out to destroy our entire economy, not just the auto manufacturing part of it.

A moot point, sadly, as it seems we can't build our own cars...

Can Canada just build its own cars? Experts say no — here's why, and what we could do instead​

Industry expert says he tried to design a Canadian-made car but manufacturers weren't interested​

"It was absolutely out of the question," said Frise, who founded the National Automotive Research Network in 2000.

"As soon as we talked to industry about it, they started slamming the door as hard as they could on that. … They said that is absolutely impossible. We would never do that. We don't even want to talk about it. …We could never afford to do that."

For example, Australia tried for many years to compete in the auto sector, said Dennis Darby, president and CEO of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

"It had its own car companies, which were all global car companies that operated in Australia protected by tariffs," Darby said.

"And they eventually gave up, and there's no production at all in Australia because they just couldn't."

Project Arrow is a high-tech Canadian concept car built to showcase Canada's ability to produce electric vehicles. It reached about 97 per cent Canadian components and about one-third of the 50 parts suppliers had a presence in Windsor. The car was featured at the 2023 Canadian International AutoShow.

It was once common to see branches of American plants in Canada building all kinds of products for the Canadian market, but technology has evolved, Darby said, and automakers have consolidated.


"It's just not practical to build a car company from scratch," Darby said. "The last person to do that was Elon Musk, and he had billions of dollars of capital."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/can-canada-build-its-own-cars-1.7457739

 

[Czech_pivo]

A moot point, sadly, as it seems we can't build our own cars...

Can Canada just build its own cars? Experts say no — here's why, and what we could do instead​

Industry expert says he tried to design a Canadian-made car but manufacturers weren't interested​

"It was absolutely out of the question," said Frise, who founded the National Automotive Research Network in 2000.

"As soon as we talked to industry about it, they started slamming the door as hard as they could on that. … They said that is absolutely impossible. We would never do that. We don't even want to talk about it. …We could never afford to do that."

For example, Australia tried for many years to compete in the auto sector, said Dennis Darby, president and CEO of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

"It had its own car companies, which were all global car companies that operated in Australia protected by tariffs," Darby said.

"And they eventually gave up, and there's no production at all in Australia because they just couldn't."

Project Arrow is a high-tech Canadian concept car built to showcase Canada's ability to produce electric vehicles. It reached about 97 per cent Canadian components and about one-third of the 50 parts suppliers had a presence in Windsor. The car was featured at the 2023 Canadian International AutoShow.

It was once common to see branches of American plants in Canada building all kinds of products for the Canadian market, but technology has evolved, Darby said, and automakers have consolidated.


"It's just not practical to build a car company from scratch," Darby said. "The last person to do that was Elon Musk, and he had billions of dollars of capital."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/can-canada-build-its-own-cars-1.7457739

And Musk has had some pretty decent subsidies as well.

 

[Nvlgzr]

A moot point, sadly, as it seems we can't build our own cars...

Can Canada just build its own cars? Experts say no — here's why, and what we could do instead​

Industry expert says he tried to design a Canadian-made car but manufacturers weren't interested​

"It was absolutely out of the question," said Frise, who founded the National Automotive Research Network in 2000.

"As soon as we talked to industry about it, they started slamming the door as hard as they could on that. … They said that is absolutely impossible. We would never do that. We don't even want to talk about it. …We could never afford to do that."

For example, Australia tried for many years to compete in the auto sector, said Dennis Darby, president and CEO of Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

"It had its own car companies, which were all global car companies that operated in Australia protected by tariffs," Darby said.

"And they eventually gave up, and there's no production at all in Australia because they just couldn't."

Project Arrow is a high-tech Canadian concept car built to showcase Canada's ability to produce electric vehicles. It reached about 97 per cent Canadian components and about one-third of the 50 parts suppliers had a presence in Windsor. The car was featured at the 2023 Canadian International AutoShow.

It was once common to see branches of American plants in Canada building all kinds of products for the Canadian market, but technology has evolved, Darby said, and automakers have consolidated.


"It's just not practical to build a car company from scratch," Darby said. "The last person to do that was Elon Musk, and he had billions of dollars of capital."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/can-canada-build-its-own-cars-1.7457739

The author never heard of Polestar, Rivian or Lucid.? They all started after Tesla. Not sure if Lucid is going to survive as they are bleeding money badly.

 

[RangerRay]

You remember Holden?

Australian automaker. Closed in 2017. Just couldn't compete, and that's with imports being so expensive due to shipping. The level of tariffs required to shield a Canadian automaker would likely run afoul of many of our FTA

Weren’t Holdens basically re-badged Vauxhalls/Opels owned by GM?

 

[Altair]

Weren’t Holdens basically re-badged Vauxhalls/Opels owned by GM?

Yes, but they still served the Australian market and were thus nominally "australian"

Which didn't matter, they couldn't compete.

 

[RangerRay]

Yes, but they still served the Australian market and were thus nominally "australian"

Which didn't matter, they couldn't compete.

Hard to compete against diesel Toyota Hiluxes!

Fuck the Chicken Tax.

Chicken tax - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Furniture]

Oh I don't know...14B 94b to GDP and 500-600k in jobs tied to it...No biggie. Toss it in the bin, eh?

Edit: I was wrong. 16-18b in direct auto manufacturing, 94b when you consider the entire sector.

So, for less than 1% of our GDP you want to declare full scale economic war on our largest trading partner, and the world's largest economy?

I'll proudly stick to pragmatism over knee-jerk "patriotism" on this one.

 

[Altair]

So, for less than 1% of our GDP you want to declare full scale economic war on our largest trading partner, and the world's largest economy?

I'll proudly stick to pragmatism over knee-jerk "patriotism" on this one.

If the plan is to simply allow the USA to dictate that we are able to produce, what industries we are able to have, and who we strike deals with, then what's the point of being a sovereign nation?

What's next? The USA is a oil and gas exporter. Should we be banned from selling to other countries because we would be competing with US exporters? Hand over our banking sector? How far are you willing to go to appease the USA?

Because I'll tell you one thing. We capitulate on the auto sector, and it's not going to end at the Auto sector. Like boiling a frog the USA would chip away at our industries and economy until we are completely reliant on them.

I would rather we continue to defend and invest in our own industries, and if the USA doesn't want our vehicles, let us strike a deal with someone else. China, Europe, I don't much care. Otherwise, why bother be a independent country?

 

[Furniture]

If the plan is to simply allow the USA to dictate that we are able to produce, what industries we are able to have, and who we strike deals with, then what's the point of being a sovereign nation?

What's next? The USA is a oil and gas exporter. Should we be banned from selling to other countries because we would be competing with US exporters? Hand over our banking sector? How far are you willing to go to appease the USA?

Because I'll tell you one thing. We capitulate on the auto sector, and it's not going to end at the Auto sector. Like boiling a frog the USA would chip away at our industries and economy until we are completely reliant on them.

I would rather we continue to defend and invest in our own industries, and if the USA doesn't want our vehicles, let us strike a deal with someone else. China, Europe, I don't much care. Otherwise, why bother be a independent country?

The problem is, China is an open declaration of economic warfare. It is the way to accelerate your fears, without giving us time to find alternate trading partners.

We relied too much, for too long, on good relations with America. Now we need to slowly expand our trade to other, less overpowering, partnerships. Jumping from one puppet master to another is a bad idea on its own, but doing it with China is downright foolish.

 

[Maxman1]

Project Arrow is a high-tech Canadian concept car built to showcase Canada's ability to produce electric vehicles.

Maybe this is why. They might have overestimated the market for electric vehicles, which are seeing rapidly declining sales now.

"It's just not practical to build a car company from scratch," Darby said. "The last person to do that was Elon Musk, and he had billions of dollars of capital."

No he didn't. He bought a company someone else started and pays people to call him founder.

He also had no real involvement in starting PayPal, he made a company called X that was bought out by competitors to become PayPal, and it quickly became clear it was just an investment scam and he was forced out.

 

[Haggis]

We relied too much, for too long, on good relations with America. Now we need to slowly expand our trade to other, less overpowering, partnerships. Jumping from one puppet master to another is a bad idea on its own, but doing it with China is downright foolish.

It's wise to consider, as well, that Trump has floated the idea of a third term for him (i.e. two consecutive is allowed in his interpretation, not two total). Even if he's not successful in that idea, there's no guarantee the next administration won't be a Trump-styled Republican one and not Democrat. This may not be over in three years.

 

[JLB50]

The Americans are out to bleed us dry. To them we are only good for supplying them with natural resources. Until we stand up for ourselves and start doing less business with them and more with other nations, we will continue our way to extinction as a country. I don’t trust China either and have commented countless times about how dangerous they are. But I also feel that it may be in our best interests to play China off against the Americans when it suits our purposes. It’s a dangerous game, to be sure. Mind you, these are dangerous times and we need to re-think all that we’ve been taking for granted for too many decades.

 

[Quirky]

Until we stand up for ourselves and start doing less business with them and more with other nations,

Someone once said there’s no business case for those types of things. Keeping Canadians angry at Americans is the cornerstone of liberal policy.