Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[Remius]

They are still trashing the economy, they have just changed the words. Now they are making investments.

What I want to see is what cuts will be made. I would like massive hits to social spending, foreign aide and the civilian public service.

They are making a massive investment in defence. Even if they cut those other things you hate, deficit spending will still be a thing unless that gets cut too. But I doubt you’ll want your raise or pay clawed back.

Green welfare as it stands isn’t universally liked by some quarters and if you start cutting everyone else’s version of it people will turn on the CAF pretty hard.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You didn’t actually ask my policy question or address any of my concerns though. How does government determine who’s ‘worthy’ of OAS/GIS if it goes to something more complex than what it currently is? How does government determine you differentiate the person who simply effed about in their prime earning years versus those who stayed home to raise kids? Or looked after a disabled family member? Or tried hard and simply struggled through minimum or low wage jobs? What determines who deserves it? Please give some practical ideas here.

I assure you, you’ll be paying for it one way or another, through other government provided services. Not that all (or even most) of them end up in the chronic hospital/shelter/police cycle - but those that do will cost vastly more per capita than simply paying OAS/GIS to help keep them off the streets.

I didn't ask your policy question ?

Like I said:

The obvious exception being those with true and diagnosed disabilities that require life long assistance. That should be a community task. I have said ad nauseum on these means.

The implied task is if you are physically/mentally capable of working and don't then you don't get coverage. These programs should be for people who contribute to them and the disabled; and thus incapable of contributing.

Your basic question is where is the threshold, am I right ? To me the threshold is effort and contribution.

No diagnosis ? You chose your path.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Or the red tape killed it....

One of the military's simplest procurement projects is being tied down by red tape​

The light utility vehicle program, first pitched in 2017, could end up taking 13 years to complete​

The program remains mired in what DND calls the "options analysis" phase — a step the department, in a media statement, defended as necessary to ensure "that these new vehicles will meet the needs of the CAF, while providing the best value to Canadians and maximizing industry competition."

DND said that in the first phase of the program, it intends to buy 424 off-the-shelf trucks through what's known as individual standing offers, at a total cost of roughly $45 million. But it will be next year before the the department goes truck shopping.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/light-utility-vehicle-dnd-procurement-1.7315675

Maybe, I was thinking about those CCGS ships that had been languishing at some shipyard for repairs/refits for a time period beyond agreed upon and no real work had been done before the CG seized the ships from the yard.

 

[Czech_pivo]

You didn’t actually ask my policy question or address any of my concerns though. How does government determine who’s ‘worthy’ of OAS/GIS if it goes to something more complex than what it currently is? How does government determine you differentiate the person who simply effed about in their prime earning years versus those who stayed home to raise kids? Or looked after a disabled family member? Or tried hard and simply struggled through minimum or low wage jobs? What determines who deserves it? Please give some practical ideas here.

I assure you, you’ll be paying for it one way or another, through other government provided services. Not that all (or even most) of them end up in the chronic hospital/shelter/police cycle - but those that do will cost vastly more per capita than simply paying OAS/GIS to help keep them off the streets.

That can be done by reviewing their prior years of CRA filings - you can tell when someone was caring for a family member or raising children. The new 'automatic' filing of simple tax returns will go along way in addressing these things and beginning to ensure that the 'right' people receive the 'right' benefits.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I didn't ask your policy question ?

Like I said:


The implied task is if you are physically/mentally capable of working and don't then you don't get coverage. These programs should be for people who contribute to them and the disabled; and thus incapable of contributing.

Your basic question is where is the threshold, am I right ? To me the threshold is effort and contribution.

No diagnosis ? You chose your path.

Along those lines, assuring that someone who comes to Canada as a result of the 'family reunification' track and never works a day of their life in Canada shouldn't be receiving OAS payments.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Along those lines, assuring that someone who comes to Canada as a result of the 'family reunification' track and never works a day of their life in Canada shouldn't be receiving OAS payments.

I don't think we should be allowing people to immigrate here who will never contribute to our programs. We need young working age people with skills that we are lacking.

 

[brihard]

I didn't ask your policy question ?

Like I said:


The implied task is if you are physically/mentally capable of working and don't then you don't get coverage. These programs should be for people who contribute to them and the disabled; and thus incapable of contributing.

Your basic question is where is the threshold, am I right ? To me the threshold is effort and contribution.

No diagnosis ? You chose your path.

Sorry, answer, not ask. Too early, not enough coffee.

We don’t directly contribute to OAS as we do to CPP. OAS is out of general revenues. But ok, if you mean contributing economically in some measurable way- how do we define that in a meaningful way that can be consistently and fairly applied. Sure, if someone gets a T4 for paid employment, that’s an easy metric. But how do you capture the stay at home parent or caregiver? Assuming that this will all be captured in CRA returns is a pretty big leap that would leave quite a few gaps in data captured.

In any case I think fundamentally your complaint seems to come down to cost? If that’s the case there’s a lot more economic analysis needed. It’s easy to directly measure the OAS line item. It’s a lot harder to measure the very considerable and multitudinous costs of extreme poverty on the system writ large. People do was less shitty stuff and burden far fewer services when they have a basic safe roof over their head and something to eat. OAS and GIS are intended to provide that safety net to seniors- which is why I think the savings should be sought and found on the right half of the income bell curve.

 

[Remius]

OAS is not going away. It just needs some tweaks as to what threshold qualifies.

Just because a small percentage of slackers might get it doesn’t mean you cut the whole things and impoverish everyone else.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sorry, answer, not ask. Too early, not enough coffee.

I am on my second. It can take a bit for the engines to turn over now lol

We don’t directly contribute to OAS as we do to CPP. OAS is out of general revenues. But ok, if you mean contributing economically in some measurable way- how do we define that in a meaningful way that can be consistently and fairly applied. Sure, if someone gets a T4 for paid employment, that’s an easy metric. But how do you capture the stay at home parent or caregiver? Assuming that this will all be captured in CRA returns is a pretty big leap that would leave quite a few gaps in data captured.

In any case I think fundamentally your complaint seems to come down to cost? If that’s the case there’s a lot more economic analysis needed. It’s easy to directly measure the OAS line item. It’s a lot harder to measure the very considerable and multitudinous costs of extreme poverty on the system writ large. People do was less shitty stuff and burden far fewer services when they have a basic safe roof over their head and something to eat. OAS and GIS are intended to provide that safety net to seniors- which is why I think the savings should be sought and found on the right half of the income bell curve.

If you contribute you should get a return on that down the road. If you work at Tim's for XX years and finally age out, and you've been paying into these social programs then they should be there for you at a return in line with your contribution level.

Taking the disabled out of the equation, if you make no contributions you should get no return.

People need to be responsible for their own outcomes. If you want to be a stay at home parent, I would support providing your partner with a high level of income splitting, increasing with how many kids you have in the hopes that your family unit invests that return in your future.

I live in a ghetto, my wife and daughter teach and attend a ghetto school. I see all kinds of people around me who contribute very little to nothing but demand large sums back, and almost always with nefarious or under the table means of making extra cash. I don't want to see the tax dollars of honest hard working Canadians going to support them. Our social programs should be for the diagnosed disabled and the contributors.

 

[Czech_pivo]

I don't think we should be allowing people to immigrate here who will never contribute to our programs. We need young working age people with skills that we are lacking.

I hear you on that one. But, on the flip side, if an elderly parent comes and takes care of the kid(s) so that both parents are out working, then is that an overall 'win' or a 'push' since eventually we (Canada) will end up caring for that elderly parents eventually, either through hospital care, elder care/housing or both.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I hear you on that one. But, on the flip side, if an elderly parent comes and takes care of the kid(s) so that both parents are out working, then is that an overall 'win' or a 'push' since eventually we (Canada) will end up caring for that elderly parents eventually, either through hospital care, elder care/housing or both.

Don't we have Gov subsidized daycare now ?

 

[Czech_pivo]

Don't we have Gov subsidized daycare now ?

Good point, I'm past that now and haven't been following that theme. Thanks for the reminder.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Good point, I'm past that now and haven't been following that theme. Thanks for the reminder.

I am too. I could be wrong, and am willing to be corrected.

 

[PuckChaser]

Oh my flippin' goodness...are we STILL delivering those 50 ACSV's we promised when things first kicked off?

Someone please tell me no...

No. The government diverted some of the first 50 ACSVs off the line to send to Ukraine, while our Bison VOR is north of 70%.

I can't remember the vehicle type but this was to fix up old mothballed vehicles and send them.

 

[YZT580]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/liberal-budget-support-vote-9.6947268

Election before Christmas?

I’m sure everyone will be thrilled lol.

he is just fanning the flames. There are still several (used to be called) NDP types who can easily be bought off. There won't be an election. Much as I would love to see Carney and company gone, there are not enough voters who are afraid for Canada re: his policies particularly on resources to stand up and vote for the conservatives.

 

[YZT580]

Along those lines, assuring that someone who comes to Canada as a result of the 'family reunification' track and never works a day of their life in Canada shouldn't be receiving OAS payments.

some high paid lawyer would argue successfully that this would be discrimination and the law would be overturned although I fully agree.

 

[Lumber]

I live in a ghetto, my wife and daughter teach and attend a ghetto school. I see all kinds of people around me who contribute very little to nothing but demand large sums back, and almost always with nefarious or under the table means of making extra cash. I don't want to see the tax dollars of honest hard working Canadians going to support them. Our social programs should be for the diagnosed disabled and the contributors.

You live in North Preston?

 

[daftandbarmy]

You live in North Preston?

I was going to say the House of Commons but...

 

[Halifax Tar]

he is just fanning the flames. There are still several (used to be called) NDP types who can easily be bought off. There won't be an election. Much as I would love to see Carney and company gone, there are not enough voters who are afraid for Canada re: his policies particularly on resources to stand up and vote for the conservatives.

Canadians don't like one election after another. Its wiser to let this Gov and dig their own hole for a while.

You live in North Preston?

Fairview.

 

[Rifleman62]

You can bet your last dollar that when the Budget comes out the first words out of all media is the "huge increase in Defense spending".