Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[brihard]

Disagreed. He was a party leader and had a lot to do

I lived in Poilievre’s riding from late 2017 until the districts were redrawn for the 2025 election. He didn’t become leader of the opposition until September 2022. I can’t speak for the whole riding, but I never saw anything riding specific out of him. It certainly felt like based on electoral history he could take us for granted. Not just during the campaign, but as a serving MP.

How many public service type do you think actually live in Carlton? It isn’t as high as you think.

Thinking around my neighbourhood, there’s a real mix out of the ones I know… Definitely some PS, yes, but also entrepreneurs, business managers. trades, non-PS public sector like CAF, other federal agencies, cops, firefighters, engineers, teachers, nurses, doctors, at least one foreign diplomat… Some but not many retirees… My neighbourhood’s not a ‘rich’ one for the riding, but it’s probably to the right on the bell curve. It’s certainly not PS dominated. And the public servants I know have a variety of different views, some of which would fit well with the general theme here of “be smart about it, but definitely make cuts”.

 

[FJAG]

I'm getting genuinely sick and tired of PP. He's like a little yapping dog bouncing around your feet.

This latest thing about using the notwithstanding clause to overturn the Supreme Court's decision on the mandatory accessing child sexual abuse material sentence is just stupid. Why not just redraft the law to fix the issues the court pointed out where the sentence would be grossly disproportionate - such as an 18-year-old who receives a picture of his 17-year-old girlfriend on his phone? I guess PP wants to see that kid in jail for a year. Interestingly, the laws creating minimum sentences were first introduced by the Liberals under the Martin government and increased to their present level by the Harper government. This is the same problem that Vic Toews had when he was Justice Minister - drafting crappy laws and then yelling at the moon when the courts told him they were crappy.

Last time I spoiled my formerly CPC votes because the CPC candidate is too far right, IMHO. Next time I'm voting Liberal - which won't do much good in my right wing riding.

 

[PrairieFella]

I don't know. What kind of programs and services are we talking about? Sort of seems like Canadians want to have their cake and eat it. Money for programs and services come from somewhere.

The first cuts should be OAS. No more OAS over 60k or something along those lines instead of 90k. Beyond that there are tough decisions to make. Theyre already cutting the PS, unfortunately pharmacare might need to be shelved for now despite being a utilitarian good.

 

[Remius]

The first cuts should be OAS. No more OAS over 60k or something along those lines instead of 90k. Beyond that there are tough decisions to make. Theyre already cutting the PS, unfortunately pharmacare might need to be shelved for now despite being a utilitarian good.

Postal service might be one of those sacrifices as well.

Tuesday well know the true depth of what is planned. I suspect though that as unpopular as it will be, it will be necessary.

 

[Altair]

I'm getting genuinely sick and tired of PP. He's like a little yapping dog bouncing around your feet.

This latest thing about using the notwithstanding clause to overturn the Supreme Court's decision on the mandatory accessing child sexual abuse material sentence is just stupid. Why not just redraft the law to fix the issues the court pointed out where the sentence would be grossly disproportionate - such as an 18-year-old who receives a picture of his 17-year-old girlfriend on his phone? I guess PP wants to see that kid in jail for a year. Interestingly, the laws creating minimum sentences were first introduced by the Liberals under the Martin government and increased to their present level by the Harper government. This is the same problem that Vic Toews had when he was Justice Minister - drafting crappy laws and then yelling at the moon when the courts told him they were crappy.

Last time I spoiled my formerly CPC votes because the CPC candidate is too far right, IMHO. Next time I'm voting Liberal - which won't do much good in my right wing riding.

Another reason FPTP is such a garbage system.

 

[PrairieFella]

Another reason FPTP is such a garbage system.

Im certainly team MMPR.

 

[FJAG]

The first cuts should be OAS. No more OAS over 60k or something along those lines instead of 90k. Beyond that there are tough decisions to make. Theyre already cutting the PS, unfortunately pharmacare might need to be shelved for now despite being a utilitarian good.

Easy for you to say. I like my OAS. I've paid into the system for decades and yes, I'm selfish enough to say that it's time for the system to pay out a little.

Don't worry. We boomers will all be dead soon and handing all of our "wealth" on to our fifty-sixty year old kids.

 

[PrairieFella]

Easy for you to say. I like my OAS. I've paid into the system for decades and yes, I'm selfish enough to say that it's time for the system to pay out a little.

Don't worry. We boomers will all be dead soon and handing all of our "wealth" on to our fifty-sixty year old kids.

I get it but its not a need. No one should be entitled to tax dollars due to their age if they arent needing welfare. Its ludicrous and adding to the fiscal conundrum that the elderly receive payment even if theyre making middle class wages between 60k to 90k in retirement.

 

[IKnowNothing]

The first cuts should be OAS. No more OAS over 60k or something along those lines instead of 90k. Beyond that there are tough decisions to make. Theyre already cutting the PS, unfortunately pharmacare might need to be shelved for now despite being a utilitarian good.

No sir. No OAS cuts. "OAS cuts" are scary, mobilizing, political grenades.

"A re-assessment and re-calibration of means tested welfare across the board"(CCB should be tweaked as well), with clearly articulated new thresholds vs. old, #/% of recipients impacted etc. Start the clawback at max pensionable earnings (this year 71.3k), end it at the current clawback start point (93.4k). Still an absolutely crazy high cut off for welfare, but that change would create material savings while putting those attacking the change out on an indefensible island. Based on the 2021 census, such a change would only reduce/restrict welfare to those seniors in the 90th income percentile and up (in their age band).

 

[FJAG]

I get it but its not a need. No one should be entitled to tax dollars due to their age if they arent needing welfare. Its ludicrous and adding to the fiscal conundrum that the elderly receive payment even if theyre making middle class wages between 60k to 90k in retirement.

Maybe one should look at cutting all those services that the government doles out now that weren't available - nor necessary - to all of us old-timers. These too eat up the tax dollars. The federal public service has grown steadily. With the exception of 1995 when there was a significant drop, there have been only miniscule drops but steady rises. Strangely enough, over the last decade, when technological advances ought to have made administration of government simpler, the rise has been spectacular. And that's just the Feds. And that's just the administrative overhead and not the cost of the deliverables.

There are so many places to economise but that would affect their current voter base. Can't touch those. Think of the billions the government could save by having ships built in S Korea rather than supporting two thousand workers in the Maritimes. Hell, you could probably keep them employed to fill the vacant positions in the RCN.

I jest, but only a little. This is an issue that touches on emotions rather than pure logic. Adjusting government outputs will always piss someone off. My preferred course of action is to fire everyone in government that unnecessarily gets in the way of economic development because, in my view, the best way to solve the tax burden is to grow the economy and the tax base to pay for the essential services. Want to reduce the OAS - sure. Phase it out by limiting it's payouts for those entering the system while grandfathering current recipients. In short order you'll end up where you want to be. Like I said, we're all dying off. How does that strike you?

 

[Altair]

Im certainly team MMPR.

I've been looking more and more at STV

 

[lenaitch]

I'm getting genuinely sick and tired of PP. He's like a little yapping dog bouncing around your feet.

The two little yapping dogs that bounce around my feet (they're napping right now), might be offended at the comparison.

This latest thing about using the notwithstanding clause to overturn the Supreme Court's decision on the mandatory accessing child sexual abuse material sentence is just stupid.

I think Ms Smith in Alberta said the same thing. One would think that in all the years he has been hanging around the seat of all law, he might actually have an understanding of how things work.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Easy for you to say. I like my OAS. I've paid into the system for decades and yes, I'm selfish enough to say that it's time for the system to pay out a little.

Don't worry. We boomers will all be dead soon and handing all of our "wealth" on to our fifty-sixty year old kids.

No offense but your generation failed to pay its way. Greatly increased government spending well never increasing taxes enough to pay for it. Yes you paid in, but not enough for what you received or want to receive.

That burden now falls on your children and grandchildren. Unfortunately we are also pushing that debt onward.

We are also struggling with higher costs, lower opportunity, and a much darker future. Your generation gets to retire, OAS for the wealthy is just extra fun money paid for by those currently working. The unfortunate reality is the majority of my generation isn’t going to retire and shall likely work until death.

 

[Czech_pivo]

No offense but your generation failed to pay its way. Greatly increased government spending well never increasing taxes enough to pay for it. Yes you paid in, but not enough for what you received or want to receive.

That burden now falls on your children and grandchildren. Unfortunately we are also pushing that debt onward.

We are also struggling with higher costs, lower opportunity, and a much darker future. Your generation gets to retire, OAS for the wealthy is just extra fun money paid for by those currently working. The unfortunate reality is the majority of my generation isn’t going to retire and shall likely work until death.

Stop indexing OAS to inflation going forward across the board or do it for those making over the CPP max contribution salary level in retirement and keep it indexed for those below that level.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Pretty sure most people didn’t really believe that.

Maybe, but it still speaks to Fanjoys integrity.
If I was one of your subordinates I dont think you would be cool with me lying to you and in defence I say something along the lines that you shouldn't have believed me.

I can only speak from my little corner of the PS world with a not insignificant amount of friends in the PS world across multiple departments. No matter who was going to win, cuts were coming.

That's good that they were at least prepared and didn't buy what Fanjoy was selling.

No. PP took his riding for granted.

That's certainly the consensus. He deserved to lose. Probably lucky he stayed on so long.

How many public service type do you think actually live in Carlton? It isn’t as high as you think.

Approximately 17,079 people.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Stop indexing OAS to inflation going forward across the board or do it for those making over the CPP max contribution salary level in retirement and keep it indexed for those below that level.

How about we change OAS so it just applies to those that need it?

It is welfare, period. We shouldn’t be providing welfare for those making above the average individual income, let alone average household income.

Whatever the poverty level is for the area should be the determining income for it being cut off.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The first cuts should be OAS. No more OAS over 60k or something along those lines instead of 90k. Beyond that there are tough decisions to make. Theyre already cutting the PS, unfortunately pharmacare might need to be shelved for now despite being a utilitarian good.

This has "don't give old people ventilators" covid vibes.

They paid lots of taxes their whole life, taxes that were spent on some dumb shit by the government, and on some good stuff from the government that built Canada.

 

[Remius]

Maybe, but it still speaks to Fanjoys integrity.
If I was one of your subordinates I dont think you would be cool with me lying to you and in defence I say something along the lines that you shouldn't have believed me.

We are talking about politicians here not troops or CAF members.

That's good that they were at least prepared and didn't buy what Fanjoy was selling.

At a minimum that isn’t what they probably voted for or against.

That's certainly the consensus. He deserved to lose. Probably lucky he stayed on so long.

He knows how to win that ridings. He did so for 20 years. It’s a PC type of riding. I suspect a lot of them spoiled their ballot or like me, liked what Carney was saying.

Approximately 17,079 people.

And not all vote LPC. And not all vote CPC. It isn’t some monolithic voting block in Carlton. The remaining non PS types also came out to vote, that is out of about 50,000 plus.

 

[Czech_pivo]

This has "don't give old people ventilators" covid vibes.

They paid lots of taxes their whole life, taxes that were spent on some dumb shit by the government, and on some good stuff from the government that built Canada.

Yes they paid taxes and they voted for the party or parties that leveed those taxes.
Which other G7 country has a similar ‘participation’ award like the OAS, where getting it is simply based on living in the country for 40yrs from the age of 18? Which one or ones?
Which G20 or EU country has a program such as the OAS?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Which G20 or EU country has a program such as the OAS?

Canada 65
Australia 67
New Zealand 65
UK (major difference they use contributions 66
Denmark 67
Netherlands 67
Sweden 65
Finland 65