Liberal Minority Government 2025 - ???

[suffolkowner]

It sucks for the individuals impacted by plant closures, but given the American administration was/is pressuring US automakers to bring all production back into America, it seems like a reasonable trade-off.

On a national scale, keeping farming and fishing going strong in exchange for potentially damaging an industry already being actively undermined by America makes sense.

it does seem strange to me that the US couldnt find alternative soybean markets and we cant find alternative canola when faced with Chinese measures.

 

[Brad Sallows]

All of the reasons for turning away from the US - trade protectionist, expansionist at the expense of neighbours, occasionally illiberal policy execution - apply to China, magnified, with additional negatives (widespread intellectual theft, actual authoritarianism with most of the characteristics of actual fascism). How blind are people willing to be?

"This guy is mean to us, so we'll engage more with these guys who are meaner." Well reasoned.

As I've written before, those who believe a Chinese war against Taiwan might be imminent cannot reasonably propose that it's good policy to engage with China more right now and then have to disengage (at a loss of everything invested) in the near future. I suppose a Chinese invasion of Taiwan is more likely in the next two years than a US invasion of an ally. Rationally we should not be turning away from the US to China. Choose some other destinations.

 

[Altair]

it does seem strange to me that the US couldnt find alternative soybean markets and we cant find alternative canola when faced with Chinese measures.

Because half of the Global soybean imports are China. The other half is so diverse that you're picking at the margins trying to target it.

 

[RangerRay]

Done

Not done

Yikes

Fair

Done

Done

Again, most of these have been done already.

Always room for improvement when our largest trading partner goes bananas. Those deals were made in normal times with Old America and we weren’t worried about the US becoming mercantilist.

I added that those countries were just the ones off the top of my head.

Again, why get into bed with authoritarians that don’t share our values? Why not start trading with Iran and North Korea? Or getting their state-run companies to invest in our infrastructure?

I won’t celebrate becoming an economic colony to anyone.

 

[Jarnhamar]

False comparison. Bums like you bitched about all vacations Trudeau took. US or not. The rebuttal is about being allowed to take vacations in the first place.

How well would a Carney’s vacation to the US be received under the current climate? Not well.

The conditions at this time are nowhere near the same.

I don't recall bitching about him taking Canadian vacations save for his surfing trip on the First day of Reconciliation - where he hurriedly tried to call <insert First Nations person> when his 2IC called him on the beach in a panic. Also, of course, the Aga Khan trip, for obvious reasons.

I bet if Carney vacationed to the US he'd still have quite a few defenders. Probably many of the same ones defending him having US stocks while he says Canadians should invest in Canada more.

 

[Altair]

Always room for improvement when our largest trading partner goes bananas. Those deals were made in normal times with Old America and we weren’t worried about the US becoming mercantilist.

Uhhh...no. Those deals take years to make. And reopening any deal with Europe or the pacific would involve everyone needing to buy in to it.

Like it or not, those deals are those deals, and just because we want to renegotiate them doesn't mean they will. They likely wont.

There is one nation that believes it can just rip up signed agreements. And that one nation is the reason for all this consternation in the first place

I added that those countries were just the ones off the top of my head.

Again, why get into bed with authoritarians that don’t share our values? Why not start trading with Iran and North Korea? Or getting their state-run companies to invest in our infrastructure?

I won’t celebrate becoming an economic colony to anyone.

Because we are faced with a binary choice.

There are two nations that are putting the screws to Canada.

USA and China. We tried, Carney tried, Trudeau tried, premiers tried, business leaders tried, many tried to get a deal with the USA. The USA isn't budging. If anything, they are escalating. The Chinese are willing to make a deal, so we did.

Canada cannot fight an economic war on two fronts. We don't have the luxury of being that big. And we have posters here who remind us monthy about job numbers the second they go down. Same as the opposition. So what, Carney and the LPC let the economy stagnate on principle? Suffer at the polls next election? Or make a deal with the devil and get the economy moving?

Maybe if the other side was willing to stand with them in this regard they would feel they had the space to do this. But you have the opposition bemoaning every time the economy stumbles or job numbers aren't rosy. Carney needs results and if China is the way, China is the way.

 

[RangerRay]

Uhhh...no. Those deals take years to make. And reopening any deal with Europe or the pacific would involve everyone needing to buy in to it.

Like it or not, those deals are those deals, and just because we want to renegotiate them doesn't mean they will. They likely wont.

There is one nation that believes it can just rip up signed agreements. And that one nation is the reason for all this consternation in the first place

Because we are faced with a binary choice.

There are two nations that are putting the screws to Canada.

USA and China. We tried, Carney tried, Trudeau tried, premiers tried, business leaders tried, many tried to get a deal with the USA. The USA isn't budging. If anything, they are escalating. The Chinese are willing to make a deal, so we did.

Canada cannot fight an economic war on two fronts. We don't have the luxury of being that big. And we have posters here who remind us monthy about job numbers the second they go down. Same as the opposition. So what, Carney and the LPC let the economy stagnate on principle? Suffer at the polls next election? Or make a deal with the devil and get the economy moving?

Maybe if the other side was willing to stand with them in this regard they would feel they had the space to do this. But you have the opposition bemoaning every time the economy stumbles or job numbers aren't rosy. Carney needs results and if China is the way, China is the way.

 

[dapaterson]

 

[Mick]

I don't recall bitching about him taking Canadian vacations save for his surfing trip on the First day of Reconciliation - where he hurriedly tried to call <insert First Nations person> when his 2IC called him on the beach in a panic. Also, of course, the Aga Khan trip, for obvious reasons.

I bet if Carney vacationed to the US he'd still have quite a few defenders. Probably many of the same ones defending him having US stocks while he says Canadians should invest in Canada more.

Do you have to divest US stocks in order to make more Canadian investments?

Has PM Carney encouraged Canadians to divest their US investments in order to boost investment in Canada?

Would divesting his US portfolio help the Canadian economy?

 

[Remius]

I don't recall bitching about him taking Canadian vacations save for his surfing trip on the First day of Reconciliation - where he hurriedly tried to call <insert First Nations person> when his 2IC called him on the beach in a panic. Also, of course, the Aga Khan trip, for obvious reasons.

Plenty. Lots of news hit pieces about all of his trips and the usual suspects belly aching about costs etc.

I bet if Carney vacationed to the US he'd still have quite a few defenders. Probably many of the same ones defending him having US stocks while he says Canadians should invest in Canada more.

I honestly don’t care if people go to the US. It’s their choice one way or the other. Freedom of movement is a feature.

But the moaning about Canadians choosing to not go to the US or buy American by Maple Maga or Pro trumpers here is fun to watch.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Do you have to divest US stocks in order to make more Canadian investments?

Has PM Carney encouraged Canadians to divest their US investments in order to boost investment in Canada?

Would divesting his US portfolio help the Canadian economy?

Investing in Canada was a (successful) Liberal campaign maneuver. You can boil it down to do as we say, not as we do.

 

[HavokFour]

When it comes to the defense of Canada, 38 percent of Conservatives, while smaller than 47 percent, is not insignificant.

and all of the Dippers and Grits means a likely majority of Canadians from western provinces would be on board.

Now you know.

#Math

I'm more shocked at the Bloc vs Conservative numbers. What a time to be alive.

 

[Mick]

Investing in Canada was a (successful) Liberal campaign maneuver. You can boil it down to do as we say, not as we do.

Didn't answer any of my questions.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Plenty. Lots of news hit pieces about all of his trips and the usual suspects belly aching about costs etc.

I do think we should only pay for trips inside Canada for politicians. The bit of hypocrisy there is we use tax dollars to pay for some of soldiers HLTA and vacation travel.

I honestly don’t care if people go to the US. It’s their choice one way or the other. Freedom of movement is a feature.

I like that too.

But the moaning about Canadians choosing to not go to the US or buy American by Maple Maga or Pro trumpers here is fun to watch.

Canadians do a lot of moaning about what other people do, especially people who put up different coloured election signs in their yards than them.

Emotionally it's refreshing to say cut all ties with the US. It's not practical though.

 

[Altair]

I'm more shocked at the Bloc vs Conservative numbers. What a time to be alive.

I'm not.

The bloc voters, as much as they may not like Canada, hate the USA more. They see what happened to French in Louisiana.

Conservative voters...I have always maintained that the CPC plays footsie with the American right a little too much.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I do think we should only pay for trips inside Canada for politicians. The bit of hypocrisy there is we use tax dollars to pay for some of soldiers HLTA and vacation travel.

HLTA is NPF (CFPSA).

Morale and welfare funding is PF (Tax Dollars).

 

[Jarnhamar]

Didn't answer any of my questions.

I didn't, you're right. Let me answer them now, and ask you some of my own.

Do you have to divest US stocks in order to make more Canadian investments?
No.

Has PM Carney encouraged Canadians to divest their US investments in order to boost investment in Canada?
No

Would divesting his US portfolio help the Canadian economy?
No.

Expanding on your questions:

1. Can the Liberal Party claim to encourage Canadians to invest in Canada when leaders like Carney hold significant investments abroad?

2. Does Carney’s push for Canadians to “support domestic growth” conflict with his own personal or professional financial ties outside Canada?

3. Is it hypocritical for the Liberals to urge Canadian investment at home while seemingly prioritizing foreign markets themselves?

 

[Mick]

I didn't, you're right. Let me answer them now, and ask you some of my own.

Do you have to divest US stocks in order to make more Canadian investments?
No.

Has PM Carney encouraged Canadians to divest their US investments in order to boost investment in Canada?
No

Would divesting his US portfolio help the Canadian economy?
No.

Expanding on your questions:

1. Can the Liberal Party claim to encourage Canadians to invest in Canada when leaders like Carney hold significant investments abroad?

Why not? You haven't explained why one negates the other.

2. Does Carney’s push for Canadians to “support domestic growth” conflict with his own personal or professional financial ties outside Canada?

Why would it? Why would previously established investments elsewhere negate future investment in Canada?

3. Is it hypocritical for the Liberals to urge Canadian investment at home while seemingly prioritizing foreign markets themselves?

Possibly. Is this the case?

Don't all governments, regardless of political stripe, aim to encourage and foster investments in their own country?

Edit to add:

It would be hypocritical if the government or MC was encouraging Canadians to ditch other investments. This is not the case.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Why not?

That's a question, not an answer to my question.

Why would it? Why would previously established investments elsewhere negate future investment in Canada?

That's 2 questions, not an answer to my question.

Possibly. Is this the case?

Yes.

Don't all governments, regardless of political stripe, aim to encourage and foster investments in their own country?

They do. They can also act like hypocrites when they urge this and turn around and invest in foreign countries themselves.

For example, Carney has investments in something like 150+ US companies, and 30ish European conpanies. Do you know how many Canadian companies he has stock in? I can give you a hint if you'd like.

Edit to add:

It would be hypocritical if the government or MC was encouraging Canadians to ditch other investments. This is not the case.

During the election it was heavily implied patriotic Canadians should invest more in Canada, and we should get away from US contracts and such. Meanwhile US contracts were business as usual.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Advocating investment is lazy, and is a way to seem like doing something while doing very little without any real political risk.

Economics is fundamentally about human behaviour, which means it is fundamentally about incentives.

Changing the regulatory regime to provide incentives to invest is worthwhile. The chief impediment to changing a regulatory regime is all the vested interests who have the ears of politicians.