Liberal (Minority/Majority) Government 2025 - ???

[PrairieFella]

How soon unwanted foreign election influence and various other hostile behaviours disappeared down the memory hole.

Frankly, spare us the sanctimony. We can say the same thing about the Americans. Yet you want even further integration with them. They're directly involved with an attempt to raise a separatist movement in Canada for Pete's sake.

 

[QV]

How soon unwanted foreign election influence and various other hostile behaviours disappeared down the memory hole.

By design.

 

[QV]

Frankly, spare us the sanctimony. We can say the same thing about the Americans. Yet you want even further integration with them. They're directly involved with an attempt to raise a separatist movement in Canada for Pete's sake.

Notable differences exist between the CCP China and the USA. It's amusing to watch which side Canadian liberal types side with.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Frankly, spare us the sanctimony. We can say the same thing about the Americans. Yet you want even further integration with them. They're directly involved with an attempt to raise a separatist movement in Canada for Pete's sake.

I wrote that I could as easily live in the US as Canada (or some other places like Germany, Britain, France, etc), which is not the same thing as wanting further integration with them or wanting to move to any of those places right now. I do want people to put more energy into preserving the integration we already have rather than crying "all is lost" and putting energy into burning it all down as fast as they can because they got butt-hurt over something insulting Trump said about Canada, or because they're sinophiles or pro-EU or have some other agenda.

Raising the spectre of provoking separatism in Canada and wondering who might want to separate or worse isn't a path with only one pitfall. "Vive le Quebec libre!" is part of our history, too.

We shouldn't be dealing with China to any greater extent than we deal with Russia. They are predatory states. "Russia out of Ukraine. China out of Tibet." Trump's US is a predatory state; but there is all the difference in the world with the qualifier "Trump's", and the magnitude simply isn't the same. We obviously shouldn't be simultaneously dealing with China because it has bullied us into compliance and then standing up on our hind legs to bark about not being bullied into compliance.

 

[PrairieFella]

Notable differences exist between the CCP China and the USA. It's amusing to watch which side Canadian liberal types side with.

I side with Canada and what is in its best interest. If that means trade deals with less than savoury countries to diversify us away from a predatory superpower looking to break our economy, thats the way the cookie crumbles. Thats the side this classical liberal is on; like thats an insult or something. Oh no, more free trade and more market competition for a country that succeeded the most as global free traders.

I do find it odd though that you seem to care far more about the USA than Canada in all these discussions.

 

[QV]

I side with Canada and what is in its best interest. If that means trade deals with less than savoury countries to diversify us away from a predatory superpower looking to break our economy, thats the way the cookie crumbles. Thats the side this classical liberal is on; like thats an insult or something. Oh no, more free trade and more market competition for a country that succeeded the most as global free traders.

I do find it odd though that you seem to care far more about the USA than Canada in all these discussions.

And China is a predatory superpower. It's allies include Russia and Iran. Have you paid any attention at all to what China is involved in when it comes to every other country's industries? There is plenty of open source information on this subject. Trade is fine, but it needs to be done cautiously.

A strong US means a strong Canada. Trump is temporary, but America will always be America. There were lots of things done under Obama's charismatic leadership that are also done under Trump, but those are only problems now.

 

[PrairieFella]

And China is a predatory superpower. It's allies include Russia and Iran. Have you paid any attention at all to what China is involved in when it comes to every other country's industries? There is plenty of open source information on this subject. Trade is fine, but it needs to be done cautiously.

A strong US means a strong Canada. Trump is temporary, but America will always be America. There were lots of things done under Obama's charismatic leadership that are also done under Trump, but those are only problems now.

This current change in the US is never going away. The seeds of ethno and religious nationalism planted by the Heritage Foundation and other conservative groups have bloomed eith at least a third of America. The Bretton Woods era is over. Youre stuck in an era thats over.

Roma Caput Mundi vibes from your America will always be America line.

 

[Altair]

This current change in the US is never going away. The seeds of ethno and religious nationalism planted by the Heritage Foundation and other conservative groups have bloomed eith at least a third of America. The Bretton Woods era is over. Youre stuck in an era thats over.

Roma Caput Mundi vibes from your America will always be America line.

Some people think that if the US changes parties it's somehow going to change or be forgiven.

No.

We are always one election cycle away from this nonsense. The bipartisan consensus in the USA is dead.

Democrats may come into power and talk a good game on free trade and international cooperation, MAGA will be there 4 years later ripping up CUSMA, leaving NATO, and wanting to bomb Panama.

No sane country can deal with the USA if they swing from one extreme to the next every 4 years.

Just treat them as if the face the Democrats put on is a mask. Because it is. MAGA is still there, waiting for their turn to once again throw the world into chaos.

 

[QV]

Some people think that if the US changes parties it's somehow going to change or be forgiven.

No.

We are always one election cycle away from this nonsense. The bipartisan consensus in the USA is dead.

Democrats may come into power and talk a good game on free trade and international cooperation, MAGA will be there 4 years later ripping up CUSMA, leaving NATO, and wanting to bomb Panama.

No sane country can deal with the USA if they swing from one extreme to the next every 4 years.

Just treat them as if the face the Democrats put on is a mask. Because it is. MAGA is still there, waiting for their turn to once again throw the world into chaos.

Now do China.

 

[Altair]

Now do China.

Subversive, genocidal, expansionist but unlike the USA, who are also these things minus the genocidal, able to actually get a trade deal done with.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Subversive, genocidal, expansionist but unlike the USA, who are also these things minus the genocidal, able to actually get a trade deal done with.

Didn't the US just finalize a bilateral trade deal with Taiwan this month?

Plus trade deals with Malaysia,
Cambodia, Thailand, and Vietnam in 2025. Trade deal frameworks with Argentina, Ecuador, El Salvador, and Guatemala. Trade deal with Pakistan. And more in 2025?

 

[QV]

Subversive, genocidal, expansionist but unlike the USA, who are also these things minus the genocidal, able to actually get a trade deal done with.

Glad we are setting aside genocide in the interests of a money. My how low the bar is these days.

 

[Altair]

Glad we are setting aside genocide in the interests of a money. My how low the bar is these days.

The USA did it. Europe is doing it. Canada did it. Get over it

 

[Jarnhamar]

It's a good thing the Liberal party never released the list of all those MPs in bed with China, or figure out what they stole from the lab in Winnipeg.

 

[MilEME09]

It's a good thing the Liberal party never released the list of all those MPs in bed with China, or figure out what they stole from the lab in Winnipeg.

Well on the second point, not everything needs to be public

 

[Jarnhamar]

Well on the second point, not everything needs to be public

Maple Maoists want to forget everything China did to Canada and Canadians as quickly as possible.

The truth behind Chinese agents stealing secret sauce from a lab 5 months before a world wide plague kicked off deserves to be known. At least in my humble opinion.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I seem to remember someone on here talking about how we (the RCN) had to buy vacuum tubes off Czechoslovakia during the height of the Cold War because they were the only ones that produced what we needed. Not really much different. They, 'the sworn enemy' sold a product that we needed, thus we did a deal with them. In that case it was to keep our warships functioning in order to possibly go to war against them. Now we are buying products (consumer overwhelmingly, but how much Chinese steel went into the AOPS's?) from 'a different sworn enemy' once again.

We had to buy printed circuit boards out of Eastern Europe somewhat regularly to keep the 280s going to end of life, and for other things on different classes using very old digital controls.

Supply chains are global, and it's probably impossible to buy anything that has no Chinese production in the main line, component parts or chemicals etc in it.

China industrialized while Canada, the US, the UK and some others decided to get away from 'dirty blue collar labour' and grow service and financial industries instead, while the race for 'shareholder returns' drove further offshoring for short term gains (that only further centralized wealth into the privileged few).

I think the trade deal with China is pragmatic, and as long as people are aware of the risks, and safeguards are put in place where needed for security, then it's manageable. Also, no one has to actually buy any of the cars they are selling; they were promised access, not sales.

Lots of valid fire protection reasons to not have EVs generally park near DND buildings, so maybe this will let us actually enforce those and keep personal EVs parked in the arse end of the parking lots and off bases.

 

[Furniture]

China industrialized while Canada, the US, the UK and some others decided to get away from 'dirty blue collar labour' and grow service and financial industries instead, while the race for 'shareholder returns' drove further offshoring for short term gains (that only further centralized wealth into the privileged few).

This is one of the biggest reasons we need to "make nice" with China to a point.

We don't have the ability to produce things on scale anymore, because it was cheaper to have things made in China. That won't magically change because we don't like how they act, so we need to find a balance between making things here, and buying cheap/low risk products from them.

 

[quadrapiper]

This is one of the biggest reasons we need to "make nice" with China to a point.

We don't have the ability to produce things on scale anymore, because it was cheaper to have things made in China. That won't magically change because we don't like how they act, so we need to find a balance between making things here, and buying cheap/low risk products from them.

And even if we want to start producing at scale, that's years of buy/build the machines to build... etc. before there's useful output.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I wrote that I could as easily live in the US as Canada (or some other places like Germany, Britain, France, etc), which is not the same thing as wanting further integration with them or wanting to move to any of those places right now. I do want people to put more energy into preserving the integration we already have rather than crying "all is lost" and putting energy into burning it all down as fast as they can because they got butt-hurt over something insulting Trump said about Canada, or because they're sinophiles or pro-EU or have some other agenda.

Raising the spectre of provoking separatism in Canada and wondering who might want to separate or worse isn't a path with only one pitfall. "Vive le Quebec libre!" is part of our history, too.

We shouldn't be dealing with China to any greater extent than we deal with Russia. They are predatory states. "Russia out of Ukraine. China out of Tibet." Trump's US is a predatory state; but there is all the difference in the world with the qualifier "Trump's", and the magnitude simply isn't the same. We obviously shouldn't be simultaneously dealing with China because it has bullied us into compliance and then standing up on our hind legs to bark about not being bullied into compliance.

I just wish Canada would stand on its own two feet. We have all the ability and resources walk tall and carry a big stick, but instead we run from bosom bosom looking for someone to protect us.

We are 40 million people and the good lord has granted us the geographic luxury of having all the resources in the world. Jesus H Christ. Get to work, get rich and get strong Canada.

Well on the second point, not everything needs to be public

Traitorous MPs need to made public. Just like traitorous MWOs.