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List of file numbers

Thanks George and MCG for the corrective nudge!  Annoying how " Full SN (Pers)" is not mentioned officially (or its not easily found) in master file plans or DSCDS, however I did actually find a COTM for Flog(Halifax) in a DIN search that reinforces this practice.  I have some strike throughs I need to put in my earlier post about 1000-1.

Here is the DIN link for DSCDS: http://img-apps.ottawa-hull.mil.ca/DSCDS/splash.aspx.
 
FJAG said:
All that said, I can not definitively say whether or not the DSCDS was in fact amended subsequent to my departure (although I think I'll try to find that out just out of idle curiosity). The current DSCDS as maintained by IM Gp should be available to you on the DWAN.

As a follow up to this I have checked with the JAG's Project Director on this and --surprise, surprise, surprise - the amendments which will now have been in the system for six years are still not completed to the point of publication into the DSCDS. You've just got to love IM Gp.

That said, the appropriate file for a disciplinary matter which includes summary trials should be a unit assigned secondary based on the 5200 Discipline General. There never was a specific primary for summary trials (like for example 5203 - Courts Martial) and the entire intent of the 6500 block was to fix numerous deficiencies respecting Legal Matters.

Just as an aside, McG I note your listing includes two 6500 block primaries. Is that from a published list? If it is then it shows at least a partial move towards incorporating the work which JAG has been doing.

As to using SN numbers or the last three numbers please note that there is a very significant difference between personnel files and corporate records. The DSCDS relates to corporate records and NOT to Pers files which are treated in an entirely different fashion most specifically as to retention and disposition. The two should not be confused but as you may understand there is often an overlap (for example the court martial of an individual will undoubtedly create several corporate files - the units for admin, the prosecutor's file, the defence counsel file, a police file, and of course entries into the persons Pers file.) Any corporate file should be based upon the appropriate DSCDS file primary number followed by whatever unit assigned secondary is used. There is nothing wrong with using the individual's name and even part of the SN as the secondary identifier. As a matter of good practice I would shy away from the whole SN simply to avaoid any confusion between this "corporate" file and the actual Pers file.

To 211RadOp - There are very specific instructions as to the retention and destruction of 1000 block files. The 1000 primary itself I already mentioned above. Others such as the 1000 block numbers set out by McG have very different retention periods but most are still destroyed after 5 years (do note that a small select group - do require transfer to LAC instead). I wish I could say JAG was better than your orderly room but we literally had to hire four staff members for a full year just to clean up our files and either destroy or transfer files that were decades overdue for disposition. Unfortunately local unit amendments to the DSCDS instructions which retain files longer are neither legal nor done as a result of any plan aforethought. Usually it's because its easier to just bring in another filing cabinet than to weed out files for disposition and because clerks abhor the concept of loosing touch with their paper trails even if it is mandated that the documents must be destroyed.
:salute:
 
FJAG - I have to disagree with your comment - "Unfortunately local unit amendments to the DSCDS instructions which retain files longer are neither legal nor done as a result of any plan aforethought. Usually it's because its easier to just bring in another filing cabinet than to weed out files for disposition and because clerks abhor the concept of loosing touch with their paper trails even if it is mandated that the documents must be destroyed."

An Orderly Room's priorities are numerous, everchanging, and continually growing which means that a clerk doesn't have to look far for something to do; already staying late or coming in on their own time to accomplish tasks.  Realistically, going into the storage room to see if there are any closed subject files that might have expired that month or even on a quarterly basis is not high on their "to do" list.  Clerks would like nothing better than to have current, updated, stripped files as well as closed files being destroyed iaw policy or packaged and sent to archives.  Unfortunately, there is no magic fairy that can be called upon to make these things happen.  It's another time consuming thankless job that doesn't get appreciated when it's being done.... only complained about when it isn't... and please don't be surprised that someone comments when you try to give clerks a voice on the Military Administration portion of the site.
 
Records disposal is challenging to say the least.  File retention periods published in the DSCDS are determined based on the terms and conditions of the Library and Archives of Canada Act and thus allow for the "legal" disposition of materials which no longer have any business or enduring value to DND/CF.  Most units will err on the side of caution and retain files longer than necessary but eventually at some point in time, the availability of space usually becomes the determining factor at unit level of when this will actually occur.

The most hated job for any clerk but the most challenging as well.
 
With increased use of digital storage, I would not be surprised if mandated retention periods start getting longer or more items become mandated for transfer to achieves.
 
SgtB. I appreciate your comments more than you will ever know.

During the three years that I was working to help clean up the system at JAG I became very sensitive to the fact that as an organization, DND has done just about all they can to undermine the record keeping system by making records management specialists and clerks in general among the first to be down sized.

On top of that, the increase of paperwork that is flowing through he headquarters and down to the units has risen astronomically. It is no wonder CRs and other file holders can't keep up. Its truly a leadership problem and not a clerk problem. I know that our clerks at JAG would never have had the time to do the job which is why we hired four people for a year to clean up old files and do dispositions. Our leadership had decided that we had hit a crisis point and that the issue required extraordinary measures.

For DAA. The space issue is not only confined to orderly rooms but is one at the Shared Support Services sites in Ottawa and also at LAC's Federal Records Centres. I visited those across the country and they are simply overwhelmed by the mass of documents which we (and other departments) do transfer for storage. One of the big problems is that just about everything goes into the files including large quantities of transitory records as well as duplicate records. Effectively if files were kept to just a single copy of each corporate record from the start, the files would be a small fraction of their former selves and more easily managed. Most file volumes bear a start date and with minimal use of the DSCDS retention/disposition instructions it actually becomes fairly easy to determine when a given volume should be destroyed or transferred to SSS or an FRC.

For MCG. Unfortunately when I left three years ago, there was no methodology that allowed for exclusive digital storage. We created a cross country RDIMS system for JAG based on a single registry in Ottawa and all electronic corporate records required a paper copy to be kept in a physical file. In large part this was due to the fact that LAC had not determined on a standard for electronic record keeping or transfer. I honestly hope that does become a solution but quite frankly I despair of LAC ever reaching consensus with the numerous departments and their vested interests. As an example of failing to conform to standards just look to RDIMS which has been a DND standard for many years but has still not been universally adopted or implemented. An example of the problem with the disposition of electronic records look to the Frigate construction program. Many of their electronic records sit on an FRC shelf in Halifax in large tape reels with the tape disintegrating and no computer that can read them.

Finally. I have received further information this time from my contact within SSS who has confirmed that the DSCDS amendments which we were championing vis a vis the 6500 Legal Services block have been implemented and accordingly the new primary 6525 Legal Services - Courts and Tribunals - Disciplinary Matters is in effect and should be reflected on the DWAN's DSCDS site. I have a bilingual Word version of the 6500 block and can make it available to anyone interested (having troubles converting it into a pdf at the moment). Effectively 6525 is the new primary for amongst other things, summary trial corporate records.

:salute:


 
I can't find any reference that states otherwise. My question is, can more than one file number be utilized on a memorandum?
 
Not something that I've seen, nor am I familiar with any reference that would support doing it. I suggest that you determine what the main thrust of your document is and then choose the appropriate reference number from there.
 
ModlrMike said:
Not something that I've seen, nor am I familiar with any reference that would support doing it. I suggest that you determine what the main thrust of your document is and then choose the appropriate reference number from there.

Agreed.  it is kind of like spamming the CR.

Also, if there is a response, and the respondent decides to only use one of your file numbers, then the memo in the other file will be useless.
 
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