Looking for ordnance casings for sale!

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

I have a decent ordinance collection going for several years now, and I'm looking for some unique casings. Anything will do, but I'm looking more for larger-sized casings. Right now, I'm looking for a casing from a Boys Anti-Tank Rifle and a casing from the 76 mm gun from a Cougar. I'd also really love to get my hands on a 120mm tank casing or a 155 mm howitzer casing, but really anything goes. I'm currently REALLY looking for a 73 mm round from a BMP-1 or 23 mm Soviet AA brass or any other ordinance from the Eastern Bloc besides Soviet 12.7 mm casings as I already have some, but haven't been able to find anything anywhere.  If anyone has any unique casings they wouldn't mind parting with, I'd be really interested in setting up a deal!

EDIT: Pusser has pointed out some key spelling and terminology issues in this message, as well as the fact that 155 mm brass wouldn't exist. So I guess, in short, I'm looking for casings

 

[Pusser]

Sorry, sometimes I just can't help myself...  ;D

An ordinance casing would most likely be an envelope.  I've never heard of a city or the Pope keeping an ordinance in a brass container.

You're not likely to find a 155 shell casing (I presume you mean a brass cartridge case here and not the "shell," which is actually the projectile) as modern guns of that size don't normally use them because the projectile and firing charges are loaded separately.

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

Looks like I need to modify my original message for both spelling and accuracy  ;D!

Darn, I was really hoping for 155 mm brass. I'm not too arty-savvy and always figured that there was a casing of some sort at the bottom of the firing charge to detonate the charge and fire the shell. Don't C3 howitzers have casings because I have a short 105 mm casing that I was told was used for arty as well as a much longer casing that was used for a tank's main gun (given that the headstamp says 105 mm TK). Oh, Pusser, I have a casing that you're likely very familiar with, one from an Otobreda 76 mm gun. Found it at a yard-sale, of all places. 

Thanks for the heads up  :nod: .

 

[Pusser]

There are essentially three types of large gun ammunition (when speaking in these terms anyway):  fixed, semi-fixed and separate:

1)  Fixed ammunition is the more traditional type:  projectile with a permanently attached cartridge case (commonly, but not always brass);

2)  Semi-fixed: similar to fixed ammunition except that the cartridge case can be removed and the propellant charge adjusted; and

3)  Separate:  the projectile and propellant are loaded separately.  The propellant is usually contained in a combustible bag or container.  The bigger the gun, the more likely it is to use this type.

 

[AmmoTech90]

There are 155mm cartridge cases (proper terminology vice casing).  The Swedish autoloading Bandkanon 1 used fixed and clipped 155mm.  Good luck finding one.  The short 105mm you have is probably 105mm HOW which is indeed for the  C3, as well as the C1 and L5.  It could also be a 105mm Fd for the British light gun L118.  Easy way to tell is the primer on the HOW is around 1 cm across and the press fitted and percussion fired.  The one for the Fd is around an inch across, screw fitted, and electrically fired.  105mm Tk does mean it is for use in a tank, with an L7 gun.
Oh, a cartridge case from a 120mm tank round is rather unimpressive as it uses a combustable cartridge case and all you are left with is a a nice ashtray with a primer sticking out of the middle.

They aren't alway brass either, steel cartidge cases are used.

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

There are 155mm cartridge cases (proper terminology vice casing).  The Swedish autoloading Bandkanon 1 used fixed and clipped 155mm.  Good luck finding one.  The short 105mm you have is probably 105mm HOW which is indeed for the  C3, as well as the C1 and L5.  It could also be a 105mm Fd for the British light gun L118.  Easy way to tell is the primer on the HOW is around 1 cm across and the press fitted and percussion fired.  The one for the Fd is around an inch across, screw fitted, and electrically fired.  105mm Tk does mean it is for use in a tank, with an L7 gun.
Oh, a cartridge case from a 120mm tank round is rather unimpressive as it uses a combustable cartridge case and all you are left with is a a nice ashtray with a primer sticking out of the middle.

They aren't alway brass either, steel cartidge cases are used.

Dang, it's a shame that a 120mm cartridge case would be essentially an ashtray with a rod sticking out of the middle. I really need to learn more about ammunition.

I do have one steel cartridge case in my collection, a casing from a US 3"/50 naval gun.

 

[larry Strong]

As a point of "Cliff Clavenesque" trivia.....the reason some guns don't use casing's is because they have a "interrupted screw or interrupted thread type breech". This seals the rear of the chamber, preforming the same duties as the cartridge casing in guns like the 105 C3.

 

[Old Sweat]

If we are going to get technical, screw type mechanism don't really seal the breech. If you look at a picture of one, you will see what is called a mushroom head at the front of the breech block. When the round is fired it is forced back and down, compressing and expanding one or more split rings which function like piston rings in internal combustion engines to prevent gas leakage.

And by the way, the Germans used to use a cartridge case for their M109s.

 

[larry Strong]

And by the way, the Germans used to use a cartridge case for their M109s.

Thanks for clearing that up. Did they use casing's in conjunction with the AHK and AMF autoloading systems?

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

As a point of "Cliff Clavenesque" trivia.....the reason some guns don't use casing's is because they have a "interrupted screw or interrupted thread type breech". This seals the rear of the chamber, preforming the same duties as the cartridge casing in guns like the 105 C3.

At major risk of sounding completely clueless, with interrupted screw/thread type breaches, how is the charge detonated? Basically, what's used instead of a primer as you'd see on a C3's shell?

 

[lethalLemon]

At major risk of sounding completely clueless, with interrupted screw/thread type breaches, how is the charge detonated? Basically, what's used instead of a primer as you'd see on a C3's shell?

I could be wrong, but I remember seeing somewhere that after the round was inserted, you'd place a charge inside the breach which the firing pin would strike and send the round soaring into the air at great speeds.

Edit: went back and Read 3 posts above... Disregard me, I just got home from work

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

There are 155mm cartridge cases (proper terminology vice casing).  The Swedish autoloading Bandkanon 1 used fixed and clipped 155mm.  Good luck finding one.  The short 105mm you have is probably 105mm HOW which is indeed for the  C3, as well as the C1 and L5.  It could also be a 105mm Fd for the British light gun L118.  Easy way to tell is the primer on the HOW is around 1 cm across and the press fitted and percussion fired.  The one for the Fd is around an inch across, screw fitted, and electrically fired.  105mm Tk does mean it is for use in a tank, with an L7 gun.
Oh, a cartridge case from a 120mm tank round is rather unimpressive as it uses a combustable cartridge case and all you are left with is a a nice ashtray with a primer sticking out of the middle.

They aren't alway brass either, steel cartidge cases are used.

It is in fact a 105 mm HOW as it has a primer that perfectly fits your description. There's no primer in the 105 TK but I have a question about its lot number. On the side is printed LOT CA-1-13. Does the CA mean that it was Canadian in origin or does the CA refer to the arsenal where the round was produced? I'd love to have a shell casing from a Leo C2 or an L7-fitted Centurion!

 

[Old Sweat]

Thanks for clearing that up. Did they use casing's in conjunction with the AHK and AMF autoloading systems?

Can't tell you for sure, but I would assume so since it seems to be in their DNA to use cartridge cases. Again, I haven't seen a German M109 for forty years.

 

[Old Sweat]

At major risk of sounding completely clueless, with interrupted screw/thread type breaches, how is the charge detonated? Basically, what's used instead of a primer as you'd see on a C3's shell?

A primer which looks like a rifle cartridge case is inserted into the breech. When it is fired by being struck by a "hammer" activated by pulling the lanyard, it send a flash of flame up a hollow tube through the centre of the breech block. This ignites a small bag of something like black powder sewn to the base of the propelling charge, which sets off the charge and away the round goes.

I am told there is work going on to develiop a laser device to replace these primers for certain guns/howitzers.

 

[421_434_226]

Just out of curiosity, have you seen the perforated casing that was used in the 106 mm recoilless rifle, it was actually 105mm, the number difference was to avoid confusion. Is anyone aware of what ammunition the Pac How used?

 

[AmmoTech90]

If it is printed in ink on the side of the cartidge case that is the filled lot number, i.e. the lot number of the complete round.  There should be stamped lot number on the base which is the empty lot number, i.e. the lot of the cartridge case specifically.  Furthermore there will be lot number on the primer (stamped, but indicating filled lot number).  These three may or may not match.  The lot number system indicates that it was produced prior to the introduction of the 1980 lotting standard which is currently used.  CA refers to Canadian Arsenels (the filling plant).  1 is the interfix number and would change when there was a variation in design or manufacture, and 13 is serial number, basically the 13th production run.  The size of each production run depended on many things, not the least the size of the order and lot commonality between individual sub-components (i.e. for your case (gun ammo) you can't use more than one lot fuze (if the round was fuzed), primer, tracer, or propelling charge, but you could use more more than one lot of cartridge case or projectile to complete the filled lot).
Chances are if you bought it in Canada it came from a Canadian tank (or at least was manufactured for a Canadian order).  I do not know if we ever provided ammo to the Brits or Germans training in Suffield or Shilo.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Just out of curiosity, have you seen the perforated casing that was used in the 106 mm recoilless rifle, it was actually 105mm, the number difference was to avoid confusion. Is anyone aware of what ammunition the Pac How used?

The L5 used the normal 105mm howitzer family of ammunition (105mm HOW vice Fd).

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

If it is printed in ink on the side of the cartidge case that is the filled lot number, i.e. the lot number of the complete round.  There should be stamped lot number on the base which is the empty lot number, i.e. the lot of the cartridge case specifically.  Furthermore there will be lot number on the primer (stamped, but indicating filled lot number).  These three may or may not match.  The lot number system indicates that it was produced prior to the introduction of the 1980 lotting standard which is currently used.  CA refers to Canadian Arsenels (the filling plant).  1 is the interfix number and would change when there was a variation in design or manufacture, and 13 is serial number, basically the 13th production run.  The size of each production run depended on many things, not the least the size of the order and lot commonality between individual sub-components (i.e. for your case (gun ammo) you can't use more than one lot fuze (if the round was fuzed), primer, tracer, or propelling charge, but you could use more more than one lot of cartridge case or projectile to complete the filled lot).
Chances are if you bought it in Canada it came from a Canadian tank (or at least was manufactured for a Canadian order).  I do not know if we ever provided ammo to the Brits or Germans training in Suffield or Shilo.

Wow! Thanks for the outstanding info! I'm so stoked that it's from a Canadian tank!! Once again, thanks!!

 

[AmmoTech90]

The type of projectile the cartridge case was attached to should be marked on the cartridge case.  Are there any other markings (in black)?

 

[BadEnoughDudeRescueRonny]

The type of projectile the cartridge case was attached to should be marked on the cartridge case.  Are there any other markings (in black)?

TP

C36A2