LSVW what happened?

[dynaglide]

Amendment to my last post:  I should have said the filter came before the pump on the ones we modified.

 

[lostrover]

Spoken like a 'Sales Rep'.  80 Kph would and should be considered a traffic hazard on any major road system in North America and Europe.  I would say that the old rules of Convoys travelling at 80 kph is 50 to 60 years out of date.  Those were once the normal speeds achieved by all automobiles.

 

Regretfully Mr Wallace I am not a sales rep.  Vehicles since the 1940's have been able to achieve speeds in excess of 80kph easily, the factor is the vehicle the military is driving, ie a much greater COG (center of gravity) and load potential.  My 52 tracotr can do close to 50kph, it may not go fast but it can do alot more than an Acura TL work wise (ok picking up women on a tractor doesn't work) but all I can say i think of the intended role the LSVW has to play.

A vehicle with a top speed of 80 kph would greatly hinder the safety of a convoy in theatre today.  Our vehicles require speed at times to escape from situations that develop in the movement of convoys in a hostile area.  80 kph makes this vehicle the weakest link, and like in nature the easiest target in the 'herd' to cull.  

Yes true, however an LSVW can exceed 80KPH, compare the acceleration rate of the LSVW vs other vehicles in theatre, its up there.

It offers absolutely no protection to its crew.

Nor was it designed to, nor was the HMMVW, yet now the US, like us are faced with amouring soft skined vehicles and as a result degrading the utility of the platform.  Up-armoured HMMVW's are suffering massive structural damge from being uparmored and are loosing the speed varient from the additional weight. 

 Its heater is too weak to heat the cab in the winter, and too hot in the summer.  

How is the heat and air conditionaing in the MLVW (sorry had to throw that in).

The handbrake works opposite to the way most other vehicles handbrakes do.

It is a European vehicle, something that should have been addressed prior to the build in North America.

The batteries are prone to catch fire/fire hazard if left in the vehicle while stored in a garage for a long period of time. 

There has been a mod to correct this many years ago.

Spare Tire storage is poorly designed and difficult to use.

Glad to hear your input on a better solution, be sure to account for the weight of the tire/rim, and the physical capabilities of the average person

Driver training in the CF is not a problem.  It is usually quite extensive, so don't be blaming vehicle shortcomings on drivers.  That is where it appears you have some sort of vested interest in the manufacturer.

My BDT was 8 weeks in Borden, after which i was qual on ILTIS, MLVW, panel van and crew cab, upon rtu I had additional PO's to do in order to qual on CUCV, CJ-7 etc......Once again i have no vested interest in the manufacturer and so long as the opposing party is out things should get better.


Its a tool in our tool box, a better understanding might prove worth of its use.




[Edut: Sort out Quotes]

 

[lostrover]

Dynaglide,

Thus by improving the accessibility for operator maintenance, by removing the filter prior to the fuel pump, we created our own problems.  As you are in the know, when i did my SME conversion on the LSVW, part of the DVR/operator's daily inspection was to drain the fuel filter (ala MLVW) on each morning parade, did that go by the way side also? 

All of our vehicles have strength's and weaknesses, but addressing them, we are able to fully utilise them.

 

[dynaglide]

We only removed the small in-line filter which got prematurally clogged because they are designed for gas engines.  We re-routed the lines so the larger spin on filter came before the pump.  You didn't read my post.  I said this mod improved performance. 

 

[Wookilar]

Never mind the "plastic" anti-corrosion liner on the original fuel tanks. Hello, fuel eats plastic, even diesel.

And please do not get me going on starter fires, FFCH fires, alternator fires, bad ground straps, rusted out floors (in Alberta), etc. etc.

As for the engine being good enough....for a base cargo truck or for hauling a few troops around, it does well. Put a SEV of any kind on it and they suck @ss. Try driving an LS MRT or an LS AMB and see how fast you get up to 80 kph.

It does have good 4X4 capability, yes. As long as the aluminum t-case does not explode (due to excessive torque, not driver non-maintainence) or the front diff doesn't implode.

The truck is an ill-conceived, ill-designed, and poorly put together vehicle. Main components from Fiat, Western Star, and main contractors were done with the lowest price in mind, to try and keep the weight down. They were trying to keep the weight down because it was underpowered. Picture the LSVW without the turbo. That's what we were supposed to get.

I have worked on these vehicles from the very start. They suck (for very simple and basic design flaws) and we all should do whatever we can to ensure that we never get stuck with such a politically-motivated piece of crap ever again.

Just my opinion, of course.

Wook

 

[career_radio-checker]

As for the engine being good enough....for a base cargo truck or for hauling a few troops around, it does well. Put a SEV of any kind on it and they suck @ss. Try driving an LS MRT or an LS AMB and see how fast you get up to 80 kph.

Try pulling an LS LCT with a 10k Genny in the back. Ahhhh, so much highway and too few middle fingers.

 

[Sig_Des]

It does have good 4X4 capability, yes. As long as the aluminum t-case does not explode (due to excessive torque, not driver non-maintainence) or the front diff doesn't implode.

+1 WooK!

Career_Radio_Checker, how many times did 508's transmission blow up on me? 5? (That's in a 2 year period. Never got replaced...only repaired)

 

[recoverygod]

ah yes the fires.  nothing like waking up on ex, wondering what that smell is.  Only to run to the closest FE and put the sucker out.  and don't forget the spare tire mech killer.  nearly knocked me out.  

 

[241]

2. Lack of power - last time i checked the the limit for smp vehicles is still 80 kph, it will do it, try mating the gears in the transmission with the engine to achieve the most out of it

Now I am sure that if I have been mis-informed someone will be around to correct me soon enough, I have not taught on nor been on a drivers course since before we started getting the MILCOTS and G-Wagens but troops that are qualified on these vehicles are telling me that that rule has been changed to if the vehicle can do the LEGAL highway speed they are allowed to travel at that speed.

Also a member of my units wife (whom used to be in the army) has said that her father was on the LSVW selection project at the beginning and retired part way through, he then went to she her at work saw the LSVW and asked what it was then said that it was no where close to what they had decided on, so apparently there where some "changes" made through out the final stages of the project.

 

[Sig_Des]

Now I am sure that if I have been mis-informed someone will be around to correct me soon enough, I have not taught on nor been on a drivers course since before we started getting the MILCOTS and G-Wagens but troops that are qualified on these vehicles are telling me that that rule has been changed to if the vehicle can do the LEGAL highway speed they are allowed to travel at that speed.

IIRC from my DG course, It's only up to 100 kph, and only applies to individual vehicles. Packets are still only up to 80 kph, as are vehicles carrying DG.

 

[241]

IIRC from my DG course, It's only up to 100 kph, and only applies to individual vehicles. Packets are still only up to 80 kph, as are vehicles carrying DG.

Ah ok thanks, (see I said someone would be along shortly), I will keep that in mind for the next road move to Wainwright for Ex, make sure everyone leaves Timmies in 5 minute intervals...  ;D

 

[Trogdor]

Spoken like a 'Sales Rep'.  80 Kph would and should be considered a traffic hazard on any major road system in North America and Europe.  I would say that the old rules of Convoys travelling at 80 kph is 50 to 60 years out of date.  Those were once the normal speeds achieved by all automobiles.  Speeds have greatly increased in the last century.  Unfortunately DND has not kept up with the times in this regard.  

I think there is a new order out saying we can do 100 on highways.  I am not 100% sure, but I believe this to be the case; does anyone here have access to any official declaration from DND that confirms this? 

The newer vehicles that are coming into the system such as the MLVW replacement and the new backhoe can deffinetly top 100 kph.

I will try and confirm this at work today and be back later with what I find out.

 

[Trogdor]

Ahh didn't read that last part. Ok 100 individually and 80 in clusters makes sense.  Of course when we get to the days when all our vehicles can do 100 it'll be real nice.

 

[WogCpl]

F.I.A.T.
Fix It Again Tony!
There is no good points about that P.O.S. We should have bought Hummers. When Gen. Brewer (DGLEM at the time) came to visit us maintainers in Bosnia 2000, the first thing he did was apoligise for the Little Squeeky Vehicle Wheeled. (Actually, he did say LSVW, but I try to bash it every chance i get)

 

[George Wallace]

 

Regretfully Mr Wallace I am not a sales rep.  Vehicles since the 1940's have been able to achieve speeds in excess of 80kph easily, the factor is the vehicle the military is driving, ie a much greater COG (center of gravity) and load potential.  My 52 tracotr can do close to 50kph, it may not go fast but it can do alot more than an Acura TL work wise (ok picking up women on a tractor doesn't work) but all I can say i think of the intended role the LSVW has to play.
Yes true, however an LSVW can exceed 80KPH, compare the acceleration rate of the LSVW vs other vehicles in theatre, its up there.

Its a tool in our tool box, a better understanding might prove worth of its use.

Every Convoy I have been involved in, on Road or Cross Country, the main culprit in reduced speed has been the LSVW.  Even an overloaded MLVW has left the LSVW in the 'dust'. 

As for a tool in our tool box, well I personally prefer not to have broke tools in my tool box.  I would prefer that all my tools are in good, serviceable condition and capable of doing their job properly.

 

[TN2IC]

I think there is a new order out saying we can do 100 on highways.  I am not 100% sure, but I believe this to be the case; does anyone here have access to any official declaration from DND that confirms this? 

Check out the most updated Driver Regs.. should be in there. I don't have the e-version of it.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

....and so how long are you guys stuck with these things?

Of note, I've been stuck behind about couple and they only way it looked like they'd break 80kph is if someone pushed them out of the back of Herc from altitude.


Matthew. 

 

[Sig_Des]

Of note, I've been stuck behind about couple and they only way it looked like they'd break 80kph is if someone pushed them out of the back of Herc from altitude.

Oh, it can hit +80...sometimes 90...

Downhill...With a loaded rad pod behind it...and a ton of equipment in a trailer....

Don't even think about speed when it's up-armoured

 

[lostrover]

We went from the 5/4T and CUCV to the LSVW, was this a step in a better direction, ie going towards a military vehicle versus a modified commercial vehicle?  Should the MILCOT have replaced the 1.5T fleet?  Only one post thus far has shown a positive aspect of the vehicle, regardless of what we have in the fleet there will always be complaints.  Lets begin with the M37 and 5/4T and CUCV, did we have complaints with these vehicles, yes we sure did, but we used them regardless.  Does anybody care to go over the pros and cons of these vehicle we have used prior to the LSVW? Blatant remarks such as its a POS does nothing to help the situation, understanding of the role it can play and be used in todays army is paramount.  The thought that we should buy HMMVW's is not much of a point, TACOM has already solicited for a replacement, the US has determined it no longer fits there need and is 20+ yrs old technology and very limited to the role it can play.  Would taking the MLVW or M35 series and removing one real axle, shortening the box, CTIS and a new powerplant fulfill this role...........few have complaints about the MLVW.

 

[Wookilar]

LRover,

I have to agree with your sentiment (mostly) in that the LS is what we have so we should learn to use it.

My point however, is that except for low-speed 4X4 capability, it's capabilities are sub-standard. You can be the best trained driver on the planet, but if your T-Case blows (for the third time), you've gone through 2 starters (1 crapped out, other caught on fire), 2 FFCH's (fire X2), AND your cab heater core goes (AGAIN! and it's February, in Suffield, of course), you tend to get a low opinion of a vehicle.

Sure we had issues with the 5/4's and CUCV's, and every other vehicle we've ever had, but no class of vehicle I have ever worked (except maybe M113 TUA's in the last few years) has taken so many man-hours to keep on the road. Go down to your Maint section and ask the Production WO if you can look at LSVW stats on PlanEx. It's bloody scary.

Remember when the LS first came out? It was supposed to be Mortar Pl vehicle. It was a very embarrassing CF Day in Calgary to have the guys jump out of them for the simulated battle run on the soccer field on Currie Barracks. Screeeeeeeechhchchchchch!!!!!!!!

I agree with you on the HMMVW's, we knew 10 years ago the US was already planning on replacing them. I personally like the hummer's, but would not advocate getting them for a number of reasons.

I disagree about using the M35 chassis, even as a starting point. The ML as we know it is illegal to be on the road, always has been (it's a brake thing, no real backup and does not fullfill Ministry of Transport/Highways [whoever they are, forget right now] requirements). Also, talking about old technology, man.... Don't get me wrong, the ML's are solid and will last a while yet, but a modern vehicle is better in almost everyway. From a performance point-of-view, not necessarily a maintenance point-of -view.

Wook