Madrid Bombing
- Thread starter K. Ash
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
Just remember, it can happen anywhere in the west, and this should be another wake-up call to us all.
As of 121155KMAR04, it is reportred by FOX, that the body count is 193. Thats 193 people who were commuting to work, and are only guilty of wanting an income. It will effect thousands, the loss of family, friends, etc. Plus the wounded (some walking, others horribly mamed for life (women, kids, the elderly), the ones scarred both physically and emotionally, and the emergency workers too. Too much trauma.
In my suburb, we lost 4 local girls to the Bali bombings of 12 Oct 02 (We have a lovely memorial to them, with their names and photos on it, right down on Cronulla Beach at Dunningham Park). All‘s they were guiity of was having a few drinks with family and friends. In a recent interview of the radical Islamic bombers in a Denpesar gaol, some mentioned Australians were nothing but "dogs and monkeys", and "laughed" about blowing them up. They are on death row now, awaiting the firing squad, but will they be laughing when looking down the barrel of a 5.56mm FNC assault rifle, when it comes time to pay up?
Pretty sad. 193 Spaniards, innocent people murdered in cold blood. If it is AQ or another radical Islamic bunch, I hope they are hunted down like the gutless, spineless cowards they are.
I reckon if I was a Spaniard, I would be looking for some SERIOUS payback!
Regards,
Wes
As of 121155KMAR04, it is reportred by FOX, that the body count is 193. Thats 193 people who were commuting to work, and are only guilty of wanting an income. It will effect thousands, the loss of family, friends, etc. Plus the wounded (some walking, others horribly mamed for life (women, kids, the elderly), the ones scarred both physically and emotionally, and the emergency workers too. Too much trauma.
In my suburb, we lost 4 local girls to the Bali bombings of 12 Oct 02 (We have a lovely memorial to them, with their names and photos on it, right down on Cronulla Beach at Dunningham Park). All‘s they were guiity of was having a few drinks with family and friends. In a recent interview of the radical Islamic bombers in a Denpesar gaol, some mentioned Australians were nothing but "dogs and monkeys", and "laughed" about blowing them up. They are on death row now, awaiting the firing squad, but will they be laughing when looking down the barrel of a 5.56mm FNC assault rifle, when it comes time to pay up?
Pretty sad. 193 Spaniards, innocent people murdered in cold blood. If it is AQ or another radical Islamic bunch, I hope they are hunted down like the gutless, spineless cowards they are.
I reckon if I was a Spaniard, I would be looking for some SERIOUS payback!
Regards,
Wes
It isn‘t clear if the responsible parties are with AQ or are Basque seperatists. I lean toward the Basque angle because there is already a history of this. Bombings by Basque seperatists in Spain is nothing new and has been going on for decades.
In any case, it is a very sad day and Wesley Allen is exactly right about the repercussions to thousands of people.
In any case, it is a very sad day and Wesley Allen is exactly right about the repercussions to thousands of people.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
ETA or Basque seperatists have only been killing people connected with Spanish gov‘t, and this would be be step in the wrong direction for them. So I‘m leaning on AQ. After with ETA connection in Spain, it gives them a cover, and its possible because of history that the ETA will be blamed no matter what and real terrorist will get away. After all there is a election this sunday, and there is a good chance that hardliner will be elected solely because of this bombing. Again a big mistake for Basque region.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
You really think they won‘t be? Our enemies are quite willing to die for their cause - aren‘t afraid of it like Western soldiers are, that includes Canada and Australia both. That‘s what makes them so dangerous. Like Martin Sheen said, "Charlie doesn‘t get much R and R", and Al Queda doesn‘t get MTV, free health care, or a generous pension plan. Underestimating their individual bravery or dedication will get us nowhere. I am willing to bet those men will be more than happy to eat a 5.56mm bullet for their cause and imagined eternal martyrdom.
And if the majority opinion is that "we" are somehow better than them solely because of the colour of our skin, our economic system, our system of justice, or the deeds of our military 60 years ago, we may as well surrender to them right now. We may call them cowards and liken them to whatever lower forms of life we wish, that doesn‘t change the fact they are wily, vicious, fanatic, and unwilling to negotiate or play fair.
Michael Dorosh
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
dbl
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
This is an incredibly significant response to an act of terrorism - a public display of defiance.
BZ, Madrid - this was the first step in striking back (i.e. showing the terrorists that they failed in terrorising the population, but instead have unleashed a hornets‘ nest ...).
Sat, March 13, 2004
Millions rally in Spain
country unites against terrorists who killed 199 in Madrid bombings
By AP and CP
MADRID -- In a powerful show of defiance against terror, millions of Spaniards poured into the streets yesterday to protest against the terrorist strike that killed 199 people and injured 1,400. The Basque separatist group ETA denied government claims that it had carried out the co-ordinated blasts, in which 10 backpack bombs exploded on four trains along 15 km of commuter line during Thursday‘s morning rush hour.
"Assassins!" yelled a crowd that rallied in the rain in Madrid, clogging roads and squares throughout downtown and around the Atocha train station. Massive crowds also gathered in Barcelona, Seville, Valencia and other cities.
"It is not raining. Madrid is crying," student Jorge Mendez, 20, said.
In Madrid alone, the crowd was estimated at 2.3 million -- well over half the population.
Nationwide, more than 11 million people marched, state TV said.
The death toll from the bombings climbed to 199 Friday after a 7-month-old girl died of her injuries. The dead came from 11 countries, but were mostly Spanish. Eighty-four bodies remained unidentified. No Canadians were killed or injured.
Of the more than 1,400 hurt, 367 people remained in hospital, about 50 of them in serious condition, authorities said.
Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar pledged to hunt down the terrorists, but he said the massive investigation had not yet pinpointed who was responsible.
Suspicion has focused both on the armed group ETA, which has fought for decades for an independent Basque homeland, and on the al-Qaida terror network.
"So far, none of the intelligence services or security forces we have contacted have provided reliable information to the effect that it could have been an Islamic terrorist organization," Interior Minister Angel Acebes said yesterday.
Acebes said police found a gym bag filled with shrapnel and explosives of a kind often used by ETA in one bombed train Thursday night.
The attack‘s lethal co-ordination and timing -- 10 blasts within 15 minutes and three days before general elections tomorrow -- suggested al-Qaida. But the compressed dynamite used in the backpack bombs is an explosive favoured by ETA.
Suspicions of al-Qaida involvement gained weight after police found a stolen van with seven detonators and an Arabic-language tape of Koranic verses parked near where the trains originated. A London-based Arabic newspaper also received a claim of responsibility in al-Qaida‘s name that called the attack "part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America‘s ally in its war against Islam."
In a telephone call to the Basque newspaper Gara, the ETA denied responsibility for the massacre. It is believed to be the first time ETA has issued a statement denying responsibility for an attack. ETA usually warns of an impending bombing; there was no warning for this attack.
Prime Minister Paul Martin, in Windsor yesterday, called the attack in Madrid "just terrible, it was horrible. I think all Canadians‘ hearts go out to the people of Spain."
He said the attack serves as a reminder of the threats that exist in a post-9/11 world and all countries must remain vigilant in protecting their people from terrorism.
U.S. President George W. Bush called the bombings "a grim reminder there are evil people in the world."
Aznar, joined by leaders from other European countries, led a sea of humanity that snaked its way for kilometres down the Spanish capital‘s main boulevard toward Atocha station.
Marchers held banners marked, No To Terror and Today Our Tears Reach Heaven.
Another read simply, Who and Why?
BZ, Madrid - this was the first step in striking back (i.e. showing the terrorists that they failed in terrorising the population, but instead have unleashed a hornets‘ nest ...).
Sat, March 13, 2004
Millions rally in Spain
country unites against terrorists who killed 199 in Madrid bombings
By AP and CP
MADRID -- In a powerful show of defiance against terror, millions of Spaniards poured into the streets yesterday to protest against the terrorist strike that killed 199 people and injured 1,400. The Basque separatist group ETA denied government claims that it had carried out the co-ordinated blasts, in which 10 backpack bombs exploded on four trains along 15 km of commuter line during Thursday‘s morning rush hour.
"Assassins!" yelled a crowd that rallied in the rain in Madrid, clogging roads and squares throughout downtown and around the Atocha train station. Massive crowds also gathered in Barcelona, Seville, Valencia and other cities.
"It is not raining. Madrid is crying," student Jorge Mendez, 20, said.
In Madrid alone, the crowd was estimated at 2.3 million -- well over half the population.
Nationwide, more than 11 million people marched, state TV said.
The death toll from the bombings climbed to 199 Friday after a 7-month-old girl died of her injuries. The dead came from 11 countries, but were mostly Spanish. Eighty-four bodies remained unidentified. No Canadians were killed or injured.
Of the more than 1,400 hurt, 367 people remained in hospital, about 50 of them in serious condition, authorities said.
Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar pledged to hunt down the terrorists, but he said the massive investigation had not yet pinpointed who was responsible.
Suspicion has focused both on the armed group ETA, which has fought for decades for an independent Basque homeland, and on the al-Qaida terror network.
"So far, none of the intelligence services or security forces we have contacted have provided reliable information to the effect that it could have been an Islamic terrorist organization," Interior Minister Angel Acebes said yesterday.
Acebes said police found a gym bag filled with shrapnel and explosives of a kind often used by ETA in one bombed train Thursday night.
The attack‘s lethal co-ordination and timing -- 10 blasts within 15 minutes and three days before general elections tomorrow -- suggested al-Qaida. But the compressed dynamite used in the backpack bombs is an explosive favoured by ETA.
Suspicions of al-Qaida involvement gained weight after police found a stolen van with seven detonators and an Arabic-language tape of Koranic verses parked near where the trains originated. A London-based Arabic newspaper also received a claim of responsibility in al-Qaida‘s name that called the attack "part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America‘s ally in its war against Islam."
In a telephone call to the Basque newspaper Gara, the ETA denied responsibility for the massacre. It is believed to be the first time ETA has issued a statement denying responsibility for an attack. ETA usually warns of an impending bombing; there was no warning for this attack.
Prime Minister Paul Martin, in Windsor yesterday, called the attack in Madrid "just terrible, it was horrible. I think all Canadians‘ hearts go out to the people of Spain."
He said the attack serves as a reminder of the threats that exist in a post-9/11 world and all countries must remain vigilant in protecting their people from terrorism.
U.S. President George W. Bush called the bombings "a grim reminder there are evil people in the world."
Aznar, joined by leaders from other European countries, led a sea of humanity that snaked its way for kilometres down the Spanish capital‘s main boulevard toward Atocha station.
Marchers held banners marked, No To Terror and Today Our Tears Reach Heaven.
Another read simply, Who and Why?
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Oh-oh ... maybe the terrorists won ... (in which case, they‘ll launch more attacks against ... ?)
Spain Likely to Pull Troops From Iraq
Prime Minister-Elect Zapatero Calls War ‘a Disaster,‘ Calls for U.N. Action
By Fred Barbash
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 15, 2004; 3:37 PM
Spain‘s new prime minister-elect today reiterated that Spain will withdraw its 1,300 troops from Iraq, unless the United Nations takes "charge of the situation."
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said, "The war has been a disaster, the occupation continues to be a disaster . . . There must be consequences.
"There has been one already," he said, "the election result. The second will be that Spanish troops will come back."
Zapatero made his comments in a post-election interview Monday with Spain‘s Cadena SER radio. He elaborated later in a news conference, saying that "the occupation of Iraq has been poorly managed . . . If there isn‘t a change and the United Nations doesn‘t take charge of the situation, and the occupying forces don‘t cede political control, the Spanish troops will return and the deadline for their presence there will be June 30."
Zapatero‘s Socialist Party won Spain‘s parliamentary elections Sunday, following the terrorist attack last week on commuter trains in Madrid that claimed 200 lives.
While the outgoing Popular Party tried to blame the Basque separatist organization ETA, evidence surfacing since the bombing has increasingly pointed to Islamic extremists, probably al Qaeda, as the perpetrators of the worst attack in Spain‘s post-war history.
In the wake of the bombing, analysts interpreted the election results, in part, as a protest of the incumbent Popular Party‘s staunch but unpopular support of the United States invasion and occupation of Iraq as well as its attempt to shift responsibility for the attack to ETA.
Spanish officials announced today that anti-terrorist officials from throughout the European Union will meet in Madrid on Friday to discuss the probe of the train bombings, the Reuter news agency reported. Interior Minister Angel Acebes said, "This will be to coordinate inquiries and efforts, exchange information and plan for the future."
EU interior and justice ministers are also planning to meet on Friday following a request by German officials for such a conference.
France, meanwhile, has called for an urgent meeting of the organization‘s foreign ministers, saying it was crucial for the EU to react to the attacks against Madrid with vigilance and unity, the Associated Press reported.
"It is essential that we regroup and that we coordinate, and that is what Europe must do," Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin told RTL radio, amid increasing concerns that the Madrid attacks which killed 201 people were the work of Islamic extremists, the AP said.
France has increased security at airports, train stations and other sites considered sensitive since the bombings in Madrid on Thursday, which tore through four rush-hour trains.
De Villepin said that no country should consider itself safe from terrorism.
"We must be mobilized," de Villepin said. "Vigilance is essential."
The defeat of the Popular Party, led by Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and his chosen successor, Mariano Rajoy, represents the most severe political repercussion yet to a European leader aligned with Bush administration policies in Iraq.
Britain‘s Prime Minister Tony Blair, while weakened for his outspoken support of Bush and his general handling of pre-war intelligence, is not seen as immediately threatened with defeat, in part because his Labor Party holds a commanding majority in the House of Commons.
With the ascent of Zapatero, Bush lost an ally and gained another European critic. "Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush must do some reflection and self-criticism," Zapatero said in his radio interview. "You can‘t bomb a people, you can‘t organize a war with lies."
Bush called to congratulate 43-year-old Zapatero today. "The two leaders said they both looked forward to working together particularly on our shared commitment to fighting terrorism," a White House spokesman said.
Zapatero did not detail precisely what actions by the United Nations might convince him to leave troops in Iraq. The United States and Britain are hoping for United Nations participation and support for the transition to Iraqi sovereignty currently planned for June 30.
Whether the United Nations might take charge is an open question.
Poland, with 2,400 troops in Iraq, is in overall command of the European stabilization contingent in Iraq.
Jerzy M. Nowak, Poland‘s ambassador to NATO, said today that Poland is willing to stay in command of a stabilization force in central-south Iraq if Spain, which had been due to take charge of the division on July 1, withdraws its troops, the Reuters news agency reported.
Nowak told Reuters that Poland, which took command of the 24-nation division last September, would be prepared to stay until the end of this year but would need NATO support to do so. "If it is necessary, we will continue leading the multinational division," Nowak said. "We are prepared for that even if Spain is not able to fulfill its promise."
In other European developments Monday, the Bloomberg news agency reported that London‘s subway system, the Underground, has added undercover police patrols because of concern that terrorists may attack Europe‘s largest below-surface rail network following last week‘s bombing in Madrid.
Bloomberg reported that counter-terrorist police patrols are being placed at key locations around the network, Andy Trotter, deputy chief constable at British Transport Police said in an e-mailed statement. The system carries about 3 million people a day
"London is on a high level of alert," said Trotter in the statement. "The threat from terrorism remains very real as the events in Madrid show." He said no specific threat concerning the Tube or the overland rail system has been received.
British Transport Police, which are working with the Metropolitan Police, the City of London Police and Transport for London, asked people using the Underground to be "vigilant" and to report unattended baggage. Officers will be searching passengers at some stations, the statement said.
Europeans across the continent observed three minutes of silence today in memory of the victims of the train bombs.
Europe‘s busiest airport, London‘s Heathrow, suspended all take-offs so as not to interrupt the silence, wire services reported, with aircraft asked not to start their engines for three minutes.
Passengers and staff alike stood silently beside check-in desks at Heathrow‘s four giant terminals, while staff of Spanish national carrier Iberia stood with their heads bowed.
Spain Likely to Pull Troops From Iraq
Prime Minister-Elect Zapatero Calls War ‘a Disaster,‘ Calls for U.N. Action
By Fred Barbash
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, March 15, 2004; 3:37 PM
Spain‘s new prime minister-elect today reiterated that Spain will withdraw its 1,300 troops from Iraq, unless the United Nations takes "charge of the situation."
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero said, "The war has been a disaster, the occupation continues to be a disaster . . . There must be consequences.
"There has been one already," he said, "the election result. The second will be that Spanish troops will come back."
Zapatero made his comments in a post-election interview Monday with Spain‘s Cadena SER radio. He elaborated later in a news conference, saying that "the occupation of Iraq has been poorly managed . . . If there isn‘t a change and the United Nations doesn‘t take charge of the situation, and the occupying forces don‘t cede political control, the Spanish troops will return and the deadline for their presence there will be June 30."
Zapatero‘s Socialist Party won Spain‘s parliamentary elections Sunday, following the terrorist attack last week on commuter trains in Madrid that claimed 200 lives.
While the outgoing Popular Party tried to blame the Basque separatist organization ETA, evidence surfacing since the bombing has increasingly pointed to Islamic extremists, probably al Qaeda, as the perpetrators of the worst attack in Spain‘s post-war history.
In the wake of the bombing, analysts interpreted the election results, in part, as a protest of the incumbent Popular Party‘s staunch but unpopular support of the United States invasion and occupation of Iraq as well as its attempt to shift responsibility for the attack to ETA.
Spanish officials announced today that anti-terrorist officials from throughout the European Union will meet in Madrid on Friday to discuss the probe of the train bombings, the Reuter news agency reported. Interior Minister Angel Acebes said, "This will be to coordinate inquiries and efforts, exchange information and plan for the future."
EU interior and justice ministers are also planning to meet on Friday following a request by German officials for such a conference.
France, meanwhile, has called for an urgent meeting of the organization‘s foreign ministers, saying it was crucial for the EU to react to the attacks against Madrid with vigilance and unity, the Associated Press reported.
"It is essential that we regroup and that we coordinate, and that is what Europe must do," Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin told RTL radio, amid increasing concerns that the Madrid attacks which killed 201 people were the work of Islamic extremists, the AP said.
France has increased security at airports, train stations and other sites considered sensitive since the bombings in Madrid on Thursday, which tore through four rush-hour trains.
De Villepin said that no country should consider itself safe from terrorism.
"We must be mobilized," de Villepin said. "Vigilance is essential."
The defeat of the Popular Party, led by Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar and his chosen successor, Mariano Rajoy, represents the most severe political repercussion yet to a European leader aligned with Bush administration policies in Iraq.
Britain‘s Prime Minister Tony Blair, while weakened for his outspoken support of Bush and his general handling of pre-war intelligence, is not seen as immediately threatened with defeat, in part because his Labor Party holds a commanding majority in the House of Commons.
With the ascent of Zapatero, Bush lost an ally and gained another European critic. "Mr. Blair and Mr. Bush must do some reflection and self-criticism," Zapatero said in his radio interview. "You can‘t bomb a people, you can‘t organize a war with lies."
Bush called to congratulate 43-year-old Zapatero today. "The two leaders said they both looked forward to working together particularly on our shared commitment to fighting terrorism," a White House spokesman said.
Zapatero did not detail precisely what actions by the United Nations might convince him to leave troops in Iraq. The United States and Britain are hoping for United Nations participation and support for the transition to Iraqi sovereignty currently planned for June 30.
Whether the United Nations might take charge is an open question.
Poland, with 2,400 troops in Iraq, is in overall command of the European stabilization contingent in Iraq.
Jerzy M. Nowak, Poland‘s ambassador to NATO, said today that Poland is willing to stay in command of a stabilization force in central-south Iraq if Spain, which had been due to take charge of the division on July 1, withdraws its troops, the Reuters news agency reported.
Nowak told Reuters that Poland, which took command of the 24-nation division last September, would be prepared to stay until the end of this year but would need NATO support to do so. "If it is necessary, we will continue leading the multinational division," Nowak said. "We are prepared for that even if Spain is not able to fulfill its promise."
In other European developments Monday, the Bloomberg news agency reported that London‘s subway system, the Underground, has added undercover police patrols because of concern that terrorists may attack Europe‘s largest below-surface rail network following last week‘s bombing in Madrid.
Bloomberg reported that counter-terrorist police patrols are being placed at key locations around the network, Andy Trotter, deputy chief constable at British Transport Police said in an e-mailed statement. The system carries about 3 million people a day
"London is on a high level of alert," said Trotter in the statement. "The threat from terrorism remains very real as the events in Madrid show." He said no specific threat concerning the Tube or the overland rail system has been received.
British Transport Police, which are working with the Metropolitan Police, the City of London Police and Transport for London, asked people using the Underground to be "vigilant" and to report unattended baggage. Officers will be searching passengers at some stations, the statement said.
Europeans across the continent observed three minutes of silence today in memory of the victims of the train bombs.
Europe‘s busiest airport, London‘s Heathrow, suspended all take-offs so as not to interrupt the silence, wire services reported, with aircraft asked not to start their engines for three minutes.
Passengers and staff alike stood silently beside check-in desks at Heathrow‘s four giant terminals, while staff of Spanish national carrier Iberia stood with their heads bowed.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Euro isolationism is triumphant
(Filed: 15/03/2004)
The thumping defeat inflicted upon the Right-wing Popular Party in yesterday‘s Spanish elections was a blow for the war on terrorism. Jose Maria Aznar, the outgoing prime minister, took big risks to back the United States after September 11, and most especially to send troops to Iraq. Even his decision to take on his home-grown insurgency in the Basque country went against the grain of much elite opinion. He may well have mishandled last week‘s terrorist atrocities in Madrid. But whoever was responsible - whether al-Qaeda or ETA - will be pleased to have intervened so successfully in a democratic ballot. Spaniards died in industrial quantities, and the first instinct of many voters was to take it out on their government. If terrorism has succeeded there, where will be next?
The election will be remembered as heralding the rise of ''euro isolationism‘‘. Large numbers of Spanish voters succumbed to the delusion that if Mr Aznar, had not lent support to the Anglo-American coalition, then their homeland would be safer. The credibility of the government was affected, as in this country, by the apparent failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. This, in turn, impacted upon the public trust placed in their interpretation of who was responsible for last week‘s atrocities. It also appears that elements in the Spanish security forces were angered by what they considered to be their government‘s opportunism in initially blaming the more obviously unpopular target of Eta (rather than al-Qa‘eda) and went over the heads of the Interior Ministry to speak to the opposition Socialists and to the press. They seem to have based their reasoning upon the need to alert Europe as a whole to the Islamist threat, but the effect appears to have been to hand victory for the Socialists who have taken a far less robust view of the war on terror.
Why do such wide swathes of Spanish - and, indeed, British opinion - take a "nothing to do with us, Guv‘‘ view of international terrorism? Partly, it has been a failure of communication, not least of American public diplomacy. The European Left, no less than Islamist polemicists, has for years been besmirching the United States as the ''Great Satan‘‘; and, in the face of that, most American missions have for much of the time emitted little more than a pip-squeak. Above all, the Americans and sympathetic European governments have not managed to convey the idea that there is no policy shift which they might undertake that would appreciably alter Islamist behaviour. The idea abounds that if the West somehow withdrew from Iraq or transferred more wealth to the mases of the Maghreb that all of this would stop. De-ideologised, post-modern man is particularly bad at grasping the ideological nature of its foes. The fact that many Islamists believe in reversing the reconquista of the Iberian peninsula appears to have made little difference to millions of Spaniards. The desire not to take our enemies at face value, in word and deed, is the hallmark of much of contemporary Europe.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 60
A co-worker with lots of spare time on his hands mentioned that the Madrid bombings occurred 911 days after September 11th. Anyone willing to check the math ? I have way too much on my plate to bother. If this has been mentioned earlier.....my bad.
- Reaction score
- 1
- Points
- 410
My single sentance on Islamic extremists:
The people have as much value for DEATH, as we do for LIFE.
Even the PM, and other govt officials have concieded that it is enevitable, that we will be attacked here in Australia as they say "1 wk, 1 month, 10 yrs, it will happen".
In Bali, 202 killed, 89 Australians. JI had taken responsability for this cowardly act, so they have already hit us once. "With their seething hatred for us liberating East Timor, our invlovement in Afghanistan, and Iraq, they do want to have some revenge on us". This is what is in the paper, and on the news here.
For more info ( and more other info), save these to your favourites www.dailytelegraph.com.au www.army.gov.au www.ourshire.com.au www.cronullarsl.com.au
Are we (Australians) ready? NO! Infact we are about as ill prepared for it as you can be.
They will attack at the weakest link, when we least expect it.
Lets just hope our govt is wrong, but I think we are in for it.
Regards,
Wes
The people have as much value for DEATH, as we do for LIFE.
Even the PM, and other govt officials have concieded that it is enevitable, that we will be attacked here in Australia as they say "1 wk, 1 month, 10 yrs, it will happen".
In Bali, 202 killed, 89 Australians. JI had taken responsability for this cowardly act, so they have already hit us once. "With their seething hatred for us liberating East Timor, our invlovement in Afghanistan, and Iraq, they do want to have some revenge on us". This is what is in the paper, and on the news here.
For more info ( and more other info), save these to your favourites www.dailytelegraph.com.au www.army.gov.au www.ourshire.com.au www.cronullarsl.com.au
Are we (Australians) ready? NO! Infact we are about as ill prepared for it as you can be.
They will attack at the weakest link, when we least expect it.
Lets just hope our govt is wrong, but I think we are in for it.
Regards,
Wes
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
Some Canadian commentary:
Spain has done democracy a real disservice
By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun
March 16, 2004
The win by the underdog Socialist party in Spain‘s national elections in the wake of the horrendous train bombing last Thursday, is a calamity for peace and security everywhere.
It is a clear victory for al-Qaida - regardless of whether al-Qaida was responsible for the outrage that caused 1,700 casualties, 200 of them fatalities.
The opposition Socialists, who had been expected to lose to the ruling Popular Party, won with 43% of the vote (164 seats) to the PP‘s 38% (148 seats), in the 350-seat lower assembly, and shifted Spain to the left of centre.
It‘s not that the Socialists won that‘s upsetting, but that they seem to have won because the country was intimidated by terrorism.
In other words, blackmail worked.
Yes, the Socialists opposed Spain‘s support of U.S. policy in Iraq. Even if it turns out the bombing was the work of Basque ETA separatists (unlikely), it is al-Qaida that benefits.
Staging horrific bombings at election time in other countries that support America now seems an inevitable tactic.
Last Thursday, March 11, was Spain‘s 9/11 - exactly 21/2 years after the attack on New York‘s World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington. According to reports, Spaniards were angry the government of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar initially seemed intent on blaming the ETA for the bombing, when the ETA has no history of such huge attacks on working people. Al-Qaida specializes in attacking the innocent.
The appearance of lying to manipulate the vote probably hurt the government.
But that‘s irrelevant in light of how al-Qaida now benefits.
The message is clear: help America, and risk becoming victims. First, 11 Spaniards ambushed in Iraq, now this.
The new Socialist PM, Jose Zapatero, pledges to fight terrorism, and calls his surprise election a victory for democracy over fear.
Phooey.
It‘s a victory of fear over democracy. We seem never to learn.
Remember Entebbe?
Until Israel showed how to deal with airline hijackers over 30 years ago, most of the world had tended to comply with hijackers‘ demands for safe passage to rogue regimes that offered sanctuary.
When Israel refused to buckle to hijackers, it persuaded others to resist. Remember Entebbe, Uganda, when Israeli commandos rescued a hijacked Air France plane?
The Spanish vote may also influence countries like France and Germany where anti-Americanism blends with appeasement.
While President George Bush has his critics, there is little instinct in the American psyche to cut and run, or cringe before intimidation and terrorism.
America‘s security has improved immensely since 9/11 - as opposed to its security after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 which the Bill Clinton administration treated as a domestic crime.
Political analyst **** Morris has opined that in the coming U.S. presidential campaign Bush will be a victim of his successes in the war against terror.
Priorities
Americans feel more secure since 9/11, and other issues take priority over terrorism - which is still the greatest threat to our civilization.
Will al-Qaida‘s success in intimidating Spaniards weaken support for America‘s policy in Iraq?
Probably.
Will it cause the UN to be more anti-American, because the UN too has been attacked in Iraq?
Doubtful.
Will it make the John Kerry Democrats more critical of Bush and more dove-like?
Almost certainly.
All are legitimate concerns.
On the other side of the issue, the fact al-Qaida continues to attack the innocent is an argument for supporting the war on terrorism. Fanaticism can neither be appeased nor thwarted by surrender.
One hopes Spain‘s new prime minister, ideology notwithstanding, realizes he cannot give in to terrorism.
Americans know it, as do Canadians saddled with a hesitant government that feels terror can‘t strike us.
Spain has done democracy a real disservice
By PETER WORTHINGTON -- Toronto Sun
March 16, 2004
The win by the underdog Socialist party in Spain‘s national elections in the wake of the horrendous train bombing last Thursday, is a calamity for peace and security everywhere.
It is a clear victory for al-Qaida - regardless of whether al-Qaida was responsible for the outrage that caused 1,700 casualties, 200 of them fatalities.
The opposition Socialists, who had been expected to lose to the ruling Popular Party, won with 43% of the vote (164 seats) to the PP‘s 38% (148 seats), in the 350-seat lower assembly, and shifted Spain to the left of centre.
It‘s not that the Socialists won that‘s upsetting, but that they seem to have won because the country was intimidated by terrorism.
In other words, blackmail worked.
Yes, the Socialists opposed Spain‘s support of U.S. policy in Iraq. Even if it turns out the bombing was the work of Basque ETA separatists (unlikely), it is al-Qaida that benefits.
Staging horrific bombings at election time in other countries that support America now seems an inevitable tactic.
Last Thursday, March 11, was Spain‘s 9/11 - exactly 21/2 years after the attack on New York‘s World Trade Center and the Pentagon in Washington. According to reports, Spaniards were angry the government of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar initially seemed intent on blaming the ETA for the bombing, when the ETA has no history of such huge attacks on working people. Al-Qaida specializes in attacking the innocent.
The appearance of lying to manipulate the vote probably hurt the government.
But that‘s irrelevant in light of how al-Qaida now benefits.
The message is clear: help America, and risk becoming victims. First, 11 Spaniards ambushed in Iraq, now this.
The new Socialist PM, Jose Zapatero, pledges to fight terrorism, and calls his surprise election a victory for democracy over fear.
Phooey.
It‘s a victory of fear over democracy. We seem never to learn.
Remember Entebbe?
Until Israel showed how to deal with airline hijackers over 30 years ago, most of the world had tended to comply with hijackers‘ demands for safe passage to rogue regimes that offered sanctuary.
When Israel refused to buckle to hijackers, it persuaded others to resist. Remember Entebbe, Uganda, when Israeli commandos rescued a hijacked Air France plane?
The Spanish vote may also influence countries like France and Germany where anti-Americanism blends with appeasement.
While President George Bush has his critics, there is little instinct in the American psyche to cut and run, or cringe before intimidation and terrorism.
America‘s security has improved immensely since 9/11 - as opposed to its security after the first World Trade Center bombing in 1993 which the Bill Clinton administration treated as a domestic crime.
Political analyst **** Morris has opined that in the coming U.S. presidential campaign Bush will be a victim of his successes in the war against terror.
Priorities
Americans feel more secure since 9/11, and other issues take priority over terrorism - which is still the greatest threat to our civilization.
Will al-Qaida‘s success in intimidating Spaniards weaken support for America‘s policy in Iraq?
Probably.
Will it cause the UN to be more anti-American, because the UN too has been attacked in Iraq?
Doubtful.
Will it make the John Kerry Democrats more critical of Bush and more dove-like?
Almost certainly.
All are legitimate concerns.
On the other side of the issue, the fact al-Qaida continues to attack the innocent is an argument for supporting the war on terrorism. Fanaticism can neither be appeased nor thwarted by surrender.
One hopes Spain‘s new prime minister, ideology notwithstanding, realizes he cannot give in to terrorism.
Americans know it, as do Canadians saddled with a hesitant government that feels terror can‘t strike us.
L
logau
Guest
Here‘s a little piece I wrote for our RMC course. We have to give a 2 minute what if type talk....
Al Kayda (does that sound like a used car salesman?) may be no different than other globular enemies the west/consumerised countries has faced over time. Compare this assessment of what we knew about the Soviets in 1947 http://www.historyguide.org/europe/kennan.html to what you think you might know about the Al Kayda gangsters today. Feel a growing piece of cotton in your head? The writer‘s conclusion was that the west had to maintain a long term vigilant approach to contain the Commies - from where all our modern day assignments in the Army spring from.
It could be a fair guess that this will continue for the foreseeable future with the terror that evolves (anyone remember The Red Brigades and their friends? See below) and not go away even as "pollos españoles" (Spanish Chicken‘s) are elected or lurch into power in other areas of the world.
The past has shown that you can‘t impact the local politics from where Al Kayda originates unless you can offer something to the locals - health care, schools, basic communications - don‘t think land lines and telephones here though.
In days gone by - you couldn‘t get market goods out of the hills and gullies of Al Kaydaville - - and Winston Churchill, who fought in the areas north of Peshawer Pakistan, tells us what we have seen with 3 PPCLI and the provincial reconstruction teams have shown in Afghanistan - namely the Al Kayda areas are very remote and accessible via donkeys.
Until now.
Imagine a simple system of Satellite based TV being beamed into the Al Kayda ville communal huts - how to wash your kid and keep him from catching typhoid is always popular. Now the women aren‘t pumping out babies who die early to keep the tribal family fed and progressing through the years. Now they can concentrate on economic developement of the hill country.
You think I am nuts right?
Fortunately for you - the communications capability described above does exist and this is the system that beams in Hockey Night in Canada and Canadian News to the huddled few in front of the TV at Camp Julien in Kabul. But TV channel changers will not by themselves set you free.
I am guessing that we are heading into small teams in the back country because it`s a long term - high quality troop requirement and not dependant upon a mechanised Army which - ta da! we don`t seem to be getting out of our elected reps.
So for all the youngun‘s - you can look fwd to a few years with your fave Infantry units, then the JTF2 selection courses, then guess where you‘re going...... donkeyville in the Afghan backcountry. Communicators will be in huge demand. Medics could be in demand, give a pill, give a shot. All these would be buffed up with a robust defensive course because these teams will sooner or later be the recipients of incoming unfriendly fire.
My point of all this is you have to offer the local farmer a competing viewpoint - the SAS did this in OMAN (see below) in the 1960s and 1970s. But that is based on the real governments being agreeable to pushing into the back country - if they don`t then it all means nothing. Under the current system they can trade bodies indefinitely and sooner or later the wives in Petawawa or Valcartier or Wainwright will get a bit tired of these deployments without end. Unless of course we quietly go low level for very long term.
Maybe it would be good to start Saturday afternoon Arabic lessons at the local Armoury.
Books -- See My Early Life by Winston Churchill published in 1930 ---- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684823454/104-0984306-9599141?v=glance)
DND Satellite TV contract to Kabul http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=527 ---- Company Website is here http://www.intldata.ca
Transnational terrorism http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1976/jan-feb/russell.html
SAS Link http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Desert_song/index.htm
Al Kayda (does that sound like a used car salesman?) may be no different than other globular enemies the west/consumerised countries has faced over time. Compare this assessment of what we knew about the Soviets in 1947 http://www.historyguide.org/europe/kennan.html to what you think you might know about the Al Kayda gangsters today. Feel a growing piece of cotton in your head? The writer‘s conclusion was that the west had to maintain a long term vigilant approach to contain the Commies - from where all our modern day assignments in the Army spring from.
It could be a fair guess that this will continue for the foreseeable future with the terror that evolves (anyone remember The Red Brigades and their friends? See below) and not go away even as "pollos españoles" (Spanish Chicken‘s) are elected or lurch into power in other areas of the world.
The past has shown that you can‘t impact the local politics from where Al Kayda originates unless you can offer something to the locals - health care, schools, basic communications - don‘t think land lines and telephones here though.
In days gone by - you couldn‘t get market goods out of the hills and gullies of Al Kaydaville - - and Winston Churchill, who fought in the areas north of Peshawer Pakistan, tells us what we have seen with 3 PPCLI and the provincial reconstruction teams have shown in Afghanistan - namely the Al Kayda areas are very remote and accessible via donkeys.
Until now.
Imagine a simple system of Satellite based TV being beamed into the Al Kayda ville communal huts - how to wash your kid and keep him from catching typhoid is always popular. Now the women aren‘t pumping out babies who die early to keep the tribal family fed and progressing through the years. Now they can concentrate on economic developement of the hill country.
You think I am nuts right?
Fortunately for you - the communications capability described above does exist and this is the system that beams in Hockey Night in Canada and Canadian News to the huddled few in front of the TV at Camp Julien in Kabul. But TV channel changers will not by themselves set you free.
I am guessing that we are heading into small teams in the back country because it`s a long term - high quality troop requirement and not dependant upon a mechanised Army which - ta da! we don`t seem to be getting out of our elected reps.
So for all the youngun‘s - you can look fwd to a few years with your fave Infantry units, then the JTF2 selection courses, then guess where you‘re going...... donkeyville in the Afghan backcountry. Communicators will be in huge demand. Medics could be in demand, give a pill, give a shot. All these would be buffed up with a robust defensive course because these teams will sooner or later be the recipients of incoming unfriendly fire.
My point of all this is you have to offer the local farmer a competing viewpoint - the SAS did this in OMAN (see below) in the 1960s and 1970s. But that is based on the real governments being agreeable to pushing into the back country - if they don`t then it all means nothing. Under the current system they can trade bodies indefinitely and sooner or later the wives in Petawawa or Valcartier or Wainwright will get a bit tired of these deployments without end. Unless of course we quietly go low level for very long term.
Maybe it would be good to start Saturday afternoon Arabic lessons at the local Armoury.
Books -- See My Early Life by Winston Churchill published in 1930 ---- http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684823454/104-0984306-9599141?v=glance)
DND Satellite TV contract to Kabul http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=527 ---- Company Website is here http://www.intldata.ca
Transnational terrorism http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/aureview/1976/jan-feb/russell.html
SAS Link http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Desert_song/index.htm
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 410
And, now that the terrorists have seen their success ... they‘re moving on to their next target list ...
Alleged Madrid bombers name new targets
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - The Islamic militant group that claimed responsibility for last week‘s Madrid train bombings has warned that its next targets could be Japan, Italy, Britain or Australia, an Arabic newspaper reported Thursday.
The London-based Al-Quds al-Arabi said on its website that it had received a statement from "The Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri (al-Qaida)" in which the group reiterated its responsibility for the March 11 attacks that killed more than 200 people and wounded more than 1,600.
"Our brigades are getting ready now for the coming strike," said the statement dated March 15. "Whose turn will it be next? Is it Japan, America, Italy, Britain, Saudi Arabia or Australia?"
The statement warned these countries that "the brigades of death are at your doors," adding that they would strike "with an iron hand at the right time and place."
The Australian and Japanese governments said Thursday they would not be intimidated.
"Organizations like Jemaah Islamiah and al-Qaida are not going to tell Australia what to do," Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer told reporters in Perth. In Tokyo, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said Japan would "not be swayed."
The editor of Al-Quds al-Arabi, Abdel Bari Atwan, told The Associated Press the paper received the statement via e-mail Wednesday night. The paper has received other e-mails from this group. On the evening of the Madrid bombings, the paper released an e-mail from Abu Hafs al-Masri in which they made the first claim of responsibility.
"This statement is authentic," Atwan said, adding the group had previously claimed responsibility for last year‘s suicide attacks in Istanbul, Turkey, and on the UN headquarters in Iraq.
The United States believes the Abu Hafs group lacks credibility and has only tenuous ties to al-Qaida. In the past, the group has claimed responsibility for events to which they were not connected - such as last summer‘s blackouts in North America and Britain.
Spanish authorities suspect an al-Qaida-linked cell carried out the bombings. Moroccan authorities have said the emerging evidence in the Madrid attacks points toward Ansar al-Islam, a guerrilla group blamed for terrorist strikes in Iraq, Jordan, Turkey and Morocco. Other groups believed to be involved in the bombings are Salafia Jihadia and Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group.
In its statement, Abu Hafs al-Masri said it was calling a truce in Spain to give the socialist government that was elected Sunday, three days after the train attacks, time to carry out its pledge to withdraw troops from Iraq.
The group appeared to boast it had the power to change governments. The socialists, who have long opposed Spain‘s military involvement in Iraq, were running second in Spanish opinion polls until Thursday‘s bombings.
"We change and destroy countries," the statement said. "We even influence the international economy, and this is God‘s blessing to us. We won‘t accept to be an object in this world, but a player, a strong player - with God‘s will."
The statement tells American voters that Abu Hafs al-Masri supports the re-election campaign of U.S. President George W. Bush: "We are very keen that Bush does not lose the upcoming elections."
Addressing Bush, it says: "We know that a heavyweight operation would destroy your government, and this is what we don‘t want. We are not going to find a bigger idiot than you."
The statement said Abu Hafs al-Masri needs what it called Bush‘s "idiocy and religious fanaticism" because they would "wake up" the Islamic world.
Comparing Bush with his Democratic party challenger, John Kerry, the statement tells the president: "Actually, there is no difference between you and Kerry, but Kerry will kill our community, while it is unaware, because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish infidelity and present it to the Arab and Islamic community as civilization."
The group also reiterated its claim of responsibility for the bombing of the UN headquarters in Baghdad last August which killed 22 people, including the world body‘s chief envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello.
The statement described the United Nations as "America‘s tail."
"The United Nations (against Islam) is a branch of the American Foreign Ministry," it said.
"The crimes of the United Nations against Islam are countless. The way to get rid of that humiliation is through holy war that will continue until doomsday," the statement said.
Parts of the statement were released Wednesday night by the editor of another London-based Arabic newspaper, Al Hayat. The editor read parts of the statement to The Associated Press in Cairo.
The Spanish legislator Gustavo de Aristegui, spokesman for the Popular Party that was defeated in the elections, has cast doubt on Abu Hafs al-Masri‘s claims.
"They are not capable of committing these attacks, much less of declaring a truce," he told The Associated Press in Madrid.
A telephone salesman from Morocco, Jamal Zougam, is emerging as the key suspect in the Madrid bombings. He was arrested two days after the attacks.
Spanish police have been interrogating two other Moroccans, including Zougam‘s half-brother, and two Indian men.
Alleged Madrid bombers name new targets
CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - The Islamic militant group that claimed responsibility for last week‘s Madrid train bombings has warned that its next targets could be Japan, Italy, Britain or Australia, an Arabic newspaper reported Thursday.
The London-based Al-Quds al-Arabi said on its website that it had received a statement from "The Brigade of Abu Hafs al-Masri (al-Qaida)" in which the group reiterated its responsibility for the March 11 attacks that killed more than 200 people and wounded more than 1,600.
"Our brigades are getting ready now for the coming strike," said the statement dated March 15. "Whose turn will it be next? Is it Japan, America, Italy, Britain, Saudi Arabia or Australia?"
The statement warned these countries that "the brigades of death are at your doors," adding that they would strike "with an iron hand at the right time and place."
The Australian and Japanese governments said Thursday they would not be intimidated.
"Organizations like Jemaah Islamiah and al-Qaida are not going to tell Australia what to do," Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer told reporters in Perth. In Tokyo, Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi said Japan would "not be swayed."
The editor of Al-Quds al-Arabi, Abdel Bari Atwan, told The Associated Press the paper received the statement via e-mail Wednesday night. The paper has received other e-mails from this group. On the evening of the Madrid bombings, the paper released an e-mail from Abu Hafs al-Masri in which they made the first claim of responsibility.
"This statement is authentic," Atwan said, adding the group had previously claimed responsibility for last year‘s suicide attacks in Istanbul, Turkey, and on the UN headquarters in Iraq.
The United States believes the Abu Hafs group lacks credibility and has only tenuous ties to al-Qaida. In the past, the group has claimed responsibility for events to which they were not connected - such as last summer‘s blackouts in North America and Britain.
Spanish authorities suspect an al-Qaida-linked cell carried out the bombings. Moroccan authorities have said the emerging evidence in the Madrid attacks points toward Ansar al-Islam, a guerrilla group blamed for terrorist strikes in Iraq, Jordan, Turkey and Morocco. Other groups believed to be involved in the bombings are Salafia Jihadia and Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group.
In its statement, Abu Hafs al-Masri said it was calling a truce in Spain to give the socialist government that was elected Sunday, three days after the train attacks, time to carry out its pledge to withdraw troops from Iraq.
The group appeared to boast it had the power to change governments. The socialists, who have long opposed Spain‘s military involvement in Iraq, were running second in Spanish opinion polls until Thursday‘s bombings.
"We change and destroy countries," the statement said. "We even influence the international economy, and this is God‘s blessing to us. We won‘t accept to be an object in this world, but a player, a strong player - with God‘s will."
The statement tells American voters that Abu Hafs al-Masri supports the re-election campaign of U.S. President George W. Bush: "We are very keen that Bush does not lose the upcoming elections."
Addressing Bush, it says: "We know that a heavyweight operation would destroy your government, and this is what we don‘t want. We are not going to find a bigger idiot than you."
The statement said Abu Hafs al-Masri needs what it called Bush‘s "idiocy and religious fanaticism" because they would "wake up" the Islamic world.
Comparing Bush with his Democratic party challenger, John Kerry, the statement tells the president: "Actually, there is no difference between you and Kerry, but Kerry will kill our community, while it is unaware, because he and the Democrats have the cunning to embellish infidelity and present it to the Arab and Islamic community as civilization."
The group also reiterated its claim of responsibility for the bombing of the UN headquarters in Baghdad last August which killed 22 people, including the world body‘s chief envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira de Mello.
The statement described the United Nations as "America‘s tail."
"The United Nations (against Islam) is a branch of the American Foreign Ministry," it said.
"The crimes of the United Nations against Islam are countless. The way to get rid of that humiliation is through holy war that will continue until doomsday," the statement said.
Parts of the statement were released Wednesday night by the editor of another London-based Arabic newspaper, Al Hayat. The editor read parts of the statement to The Associated Press in Cairo.
The Spanish legislator Gustavo de Aristegui, spokesman for the Popular Party that was defeated in the elections, has cast doubt on Abu Hafs al-Masri‘s claims.
"They are not capable of committing these attacks, much less of declaring a truce," he told The Associated Press in Madrid.
A telephone salesman from Morocco, Jamal Zougam, is emerging as the key suspect in the Madrid bombings. He was arrested two days after the attacks.
Spanish police have been interrogating two other Moroccans, including Zougam‘s half-brother, and two Indian men.
Similar threads
