Marine Corps probe video showing troops "urinating on dead Taliban"

[Maxadia]

Obviously, society is not OK with this ... else this thread (and others') wouldn't exist as this crap would just be "normal". It's not.

Unfortunately it is becoming MORE normal....that's the problem.

Things like this need a strong message sent.....to EVERYONE who knows about it.  Deterrent...that's what's needed.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

If the Corps had their priorities right, these guys would be doing ten years in Leavenworth, instead of a release. (The guy that tossed the puppy over the cliff)

It would make the next bunch of white trash think twice.

 

[Container]

My three cousins are Marines, 2 "Gunz" and another Snr NCO. The USMC has 240 000 troops- we see lets say 50 crappy Marines in these videos and the three in the puppy video.

I would suggest that the Marines have always had some reallllllly shitty human beings among their ranks but evolution wise they haven't been able to come to grips with technology and filming themselves. Its like they are trying to wash their genes out of the pool. They, at least in the enlisted ranks among themselves, treasure aggression and being detached as being the highest of qualities- usually the super junior ones especially. The Reg Balls always have a few jerk off junior ranks doing stupid shit to prove how hardcore they are.

But they are such a tiny number in the gigantic organization. It is only recently that they have had access to things like the internet that allow them to sully the image of the Corps. I look at this as a group of ass hats that need to be unemployed rather than a reflection of the Marines. My cousins are dickheads and probably couldn't function without the Corps anymore- but they are nothing like these guys.

 

[armyvern]

My three cousins are Marines, 2 "Gunz" and another Snr NCO. The USMC has 240 000 troops- we see lets say 50 crappy Marines in these videos and the three in the puppy video.

Yep, and it those FEW reflect badly upon their Corps, their Country and the mission ... and their allies.

Like it or not, the actions of a very few unprofessionals does and can have a severe impact upon the mission as a whole. We've seen this in our own past in the 90s. It isn't rocket science ... and no amount of screaming that it's "just a few bad apples" will fix it. They've got some serious work to do to 'untarnish' the image that these few have now cast. I don't blame the Corps, I blame the idiots themselves, but the Corps needs to fix this and deal with these fuckheads severely - no kid gloves (excuse the pun).

The below is disgusting; it's intolerable. And, like it or not, they performed these deeds while WEARING the uniform and as SERVING members.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I am pissed and serious about this. Please don't try be flippant.

Believe me I'm not.

I find it interesting how God plays such a significant role in the USMC, and other parts of the US forces.
At the beginning of this thread that ex-army officer spoke about marines needing to apologize. God was the first person he suggested they apologize to, not the people of Afghanistan or the dead members families.

"Unit Corps God Country" as the saying goes, with God before country.  Not very comfortable with that myself.

You would expect with the large role God plays in the marine corps they would draw conclusions that God wouldn't approve of this behavior.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

My three cousins are Marines, 2 "Gunz" and another Snr NCO. The USMC has 240 000 troops- we see lets say 50 crappy Marines in these videos and the three in the puppy video.

I would suggest that the Marines have always had some reallllllly shitty human beings among their ranks but evolution wise they haven't been able to come to grips with technology and filming themselves. Its like they are trying to wash their genes out of the pool. They, at least in the enlisted ranks among themselves, treasure aggression and being detached as being the highest of qualities- usually the super junior ones especially. The Reg Balls always have a few jerk off junior ranks doing stupid shit to prove how hardcore they are.

But they are such a tiny number in the gigantic organization. It is only recently that they have had access to things like the internet that allow them to sully the image of the Corps. I look at this as a group of ass hats that need to be unemployed rather than a reflection of the Marines. My cousins are dickheads and probably couldn't function without the Corps anymore- but they are nothing like these guys.

No one is saying the whole Corps is full of miscreants.

These examples are just the few. We get it, we're not stupid. Please don't talk down and treat us as such. Most of us know a couple of thuds ourselves.

The problem is, it keeps happening.

That means that the chain is not addressing it properly. They don't need to be 'unemployed'. Quite the contrary, they need full time employment cleaning shitters in Leavenworth.

 

[Container]

I agree with you absolutely. I know the public, especially those half way in supporters of the military, attribute this stuff to all western military folks. Best case scenario is to run these particular guys up the flag pole and hang them out in front of HQ as a warning to others that it wont be tolerated. And if it gets four more allies killed because some ANP/ANA trainee shoots into a crew of trainers its on these pricks.

It doesnt shatter my faith in the institution. It does make me question the processes involved in laying down the hammer on wrong-doers. It always seems the response is too late. Kinda like my own organization on our own wrong doers.

I talked down to someone? Unintentional. I just saw the direction as getting all fire and brimstone on the Corps. I guess I misread you.

 

[Maxadia]

They don't need to be 'unemployed'. Quite the contrary, they need full time employment cleaning shitters in Leavenworth.

With PT consisting of being chased around a little room by a huge guy with a big stick until they puke.

 

[armyvern]

...
That means that the chain is not addressing it properly.

Bingo; and, the last thing the Corps needs to do right now is minimize this as simply the actions of a few. They also need to address the fact that there's a serious issue occurring with repeated behaviours like this from a very few of their personnel and implement measures/training/whatever to get this shit sorted out soonest and stress to all their member's that this stuff is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Bingo; and, the last thing the Corps needs to do right now is minimize this as simply the actions of a few. They also need to address the fact that there's a serious issue occurring with repeated behaviours like this from a very few of their personnel and implement measures/training/whatever to get this shit sorted out soonest and stress to all their member's that this stuff is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

SHARP training won't do it. The best deterent is a good example. Only fear infringes on the baser instincts.

 

[Maxadia]

Bingo; and, the last thing the Corps needs to do right now is minimize this as simply the actions of a few. They also need to address the fact that there's a serious issue occurring with repeated behaviours like this from a very few of their personnel and implement measures/training/whatever to get this crap sorted out soonest and stress to all their member's that this stuff is not acceptable and will not be tolerated.

It's always going to happen, but the defining act is what consequence comes is response to the behaviour.

 

[armyvern]

SHARP training won't do it. The best deterent is a good example. Only fear infringes on the baser instincts.

I'm not suggesting SHARP trg ... it doesn't cover shit like this. That BS has to do with Sexual Harrassment ...

I'm suggesting ethics, some obviously required indoctrination in the Geneva Conventions and LOAC, some professionalism (and what that means) for their "young" ones who seem to think shit like this is tolerable, laughable and "normal".

 

[armyvern]

It's always going to happen, but the defining act is what consequence comes is response to the behaviour.

Yeah, and what are they going to do to PREVENT future actions such as this? Punishment is what befalls an individual AFTER they've pulled shit like this. Obviously, by the number of google/youtube hits one gets that pull up more unprofessional actions while wearing uniforms ... they'd best be looking at something preventative too. Please, don't profess to preach to me that "punishment IS the deterrent" else I'll just advise you to google the murder rate in Texas to see what a fine deterrent the punishment of someone else is (not).

 

[Container]

Hmm....I have to politely disagree. While I agree that they need to make an example of these folks and stress absolutely that behavior is unacceptable I am at odds at how you would adjust the training or recruitment in an orgnization so large to make it appropriate AND effective. If these incidents involve so few Marines, keeping in mind the size of the organization again, I really do believe they can be seen as an anomaly. Like murderers or sexual deviants in our own normal everyday lives- they can really only be dealt with once they show up on the radar. Sure they have lots of minor runs ins with the law but so do a lot of people who dont graduate to higher crime. Its almost always a hindsite game.

They can be dealt with harshly and swiftly but Im not sure they can be screened. From my understanding the USMC is very quick with service charges on junior Marines already- I expect these Marines have been on the radar for less serious stuff for a while- but so have thousands of other Marines who will no doubt go on to have normal careers. Anyways- I'll bow out Im emphasized my "but the Corps is sooooo big" argument a few times now. I share everyones disgust with the incidents.

 

[vonGarvin]

Yeah, and what are they going to do to PREVENT future actions such as this? Punishment is what befalls an individual AFTER they've pulled shit like this. Obviously, by the number of google/youtube hits one gets that pull up more unprofessional actions while wearing uniforms ... they'd best be looking at something preventative too. Please, don't profess to preach to me that "punishment IS the deterrent" else I'll just advise you to google the murder rate in Texas to see what a fine deterrent the punishment of someone else is (not).

I just googled the murder rate in Texas.

In 1980, it was 16.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.  In 2010, it was 5.0 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.  I'm not sure what caused the spike in 1980, nor the steady decline since.

Oops: the link here

 

[Maxadia]

Yeah, and what are they going to do to PREVENT future actions such as this? Punishment is what befalls an individual AFTER they've pulled crap like this. Obviously, by the number of google/youtube hits one gets that pull up more unprofessional actions while wearing uniforms ... they'd best be looking at something preventative too. Please, don't profess to preach to me that "punishment IS the deterrent" else I'll just advise you to google the murder rate in Texas to see what a fine deterrent the punishment of someone else is (not).

My point is that there's always been idiots like this.  Always.  And don't think that training is going to prevent people from being idiots. 

Ever hear the saying "Can't fix stupid"? 

Edit: Texas comment removed due to statistic posted above.

 

[armyvern]

... to make it appropriate AND effective.

You make it mandatory like we do. Seems to work in nations outside of "the biggest and best country in the world" (their beliefs, certainly NOT mine). So they have more troops. That means they also have more instructors, more facilities, more resources, more money etc etc.

I don't see any issues that would prevent it. Perhaps you could point them out to me?

 

[armyvern]

I just googled the murder rate in Texas.

In 1980, it was 16.9 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.  In 2010, it was 5.0 murders per 100,000 inhabitants.  I'm not sure what caused the spike in 1980, nor the steady decline since.

Oops: the link here

Yep. Putting them to death as a deterrent certainly stopped others from doing it didn't it? There needs to be a two approach front, punishment for those who do this shit, and a preventative deterrent for those who would do it in the future.

 

[Maxadia]

Yep. Putting them to death as a deterrent certainly stopped others from doing it didn't it?

Got any hard statistics to prove that the death penalty DIDN'T stop anyone from committing a murder?

 

[vonGarvin]

Got any hard statistics to prove that the death penalty DIDN'T stop anyone from committing a murder?

No repeat offenders?  ;D


(Sorry, just had to state the obvious.  All I know is that prohibition on the Death Penalty in the US ended in 1976, and that Texas has, by far, the highest rate of executions since that time)