Marine Corps probe video showing troops "urinating on dead Taliban"

[jollyjacktar]

I very much doubt that the cameraman disagreed with his movie.  I suspect that this video was shown to a select few initially, or as the old commercial went "I told two friends, and they told two friends, and so on, and so on.."  Someone outside the circle of trust eventually saw the video and decided to "share" with all in YouTube for whatever reason.  As I stated initially it never ceases to amaze me that after all the outtakes getting shown these past few years that there are still those who are stupid enough to film these antics.  What has been seen cannot be unseen...

 

[brihard]

Why must the examples of the 'strategic corporal' always turn out to be negative ones?

*sigh*

Court martial 'em and kick them out. No longer being able to call relatives 'Marines' seems a just punishment. Disown them. Their stupid actions will probably get other good men killed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Nobody appreciates acts such as this in the video. It is disrepectful to all. A few things that really irritate me though as I watch the news passed on about this event:

A. The 'smirking with glee' demeanor of the reporter giving the news;

B. The media calling Taliban 'fighters' instead of terrorists or insurgents;

C. The fool or traitor that actually took the video.


I would never condone such a disrespectful and tastless act but I can certainly understand how it happens. I wish the press would show as much compassion for a nation's troops as it does for the nations enemies and terrorists.

What happened to those heroes?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6yTRq_rJg4

 

[Pieman]

I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you've never worked with young Marines -- some of them are not actually rocket scientists.

I worked alongside young Privates and alongside American army privates. I found that many are perfectly aware of their actions, but simply don't care about consequences. (e.g. "I got in a drunk bar fight, then got thrown in jail this weekend....Man, the food was terrible!" ) Then just they play dumb when called out on it. 

 

[Edward Campbell]

Apparently, according to a report on National Public Radio, the USMC has identified some of the fellows in the video - they are in a unit in North Carolina.

 

[OldSolduer]

Apparently, according to a report on National Public Radio, the USMC has identified some of the fellows in the video - they are in a unit in North Carolina.

Snipers according to the CTV news report.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Afghanistan is an insurgency... Whether we want to term it as such or not is irrelevant. These Marines, should as remedial training, study Clausewitz and Killcullen (to name a couple) and gain an understanding of the necessity to win the psychological fight and win over the civilians in an Insurgency.

Devils Advocate

What if we stopped trying to "win hearts and minds" and went for compliance instead.
"Follow the rules that are being laid down before you or else. You think you're life sucks now, raise a sword against us and see what happens".

 

[daftandbarmy]

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you."

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche


Hence the need for good leaders in the chain of command during 'monster hunts'.

 

[dapaterson]

Devils Advocate

What if we stopped trying to "win hearts and minds" and went for compliance instead.
"Follow the rules that are being laid down before you or else. You think you're life sucks now, raise a sword against us and see what happens".

You might want to ask the Soviets how that worked out for them.

 

[Maxadia]

Devils Advocate

What if we stopped trying to "win hearts and minds" and went for compliance instead.
"Follow the rules that are being laid down before you or else. You think you're life sucks now, raise a sword against us and see what happens".

Historically, that hasn't seemed to work out very well.....

 

[Redeye]

You might want to ask the Soviets how that worked out for them.

***** SPOILER *****

Very, very badly.

While there's some chance combat stress may have been involved, there's no excuse for this - somewhere chain of command has failed.

 

[daftandbarmy]

***** SPOILER *****

Very, very badly.

While there's some chance combat stress may have been involved, there's no excuse for this - somewhere chain of command has failed.

Exactly:

From its earliest moments the operation went awry. The soldiers, with some notable exceptions, did their best. But ill-prepared and rudderless, they fell inevitably into the mire that became the Somalia debacle. As a result, a proud legacy was dishonoured.

Systems broke down and organizational discipline crumbled. Such systemic or institutional faults cannot be divorced from leadership responsibility

http://www.dnd.ca/somalia/vol0/v0s1e.htm

 

[Teeps74]

Devils Advocate

What if we stopped trying to "win hearts and minds" and went for compliance instead.
"Follow the rules that are being laid down before you or else. You think you're life sucks now, raise a sword against us and see what happens".

The reality is, the civilians there want to see a winner. Want to see one now. Someone who can restore some semblance of peace and they will turn to whom ever they think can provide that. If we can show that we can provide what they need, the insurgency will dry up. The Taliban depend very much on the ability to mingle with civilians, and the ability to gain their food, water and other supplies directly from the locals (either willingly or through fear tactics).

Win the "hearts and minds" of the civilian population, and the Taliban or other insurgents will have a much harder time blending in and keeping their IEDs in the roads.

Ahhh... But I do love "devil's advocates"! A great way to force the thought process. The above is just a very very dirty and quick, 1230 at night with beers in me synopsis.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Good point about the Russians but it seems like our hearts and minds campaign just translates into a giant welfare system.

We throw tons of money at work projects with very little return it seems (When the money doesn't go missing- kinda like up in northern Canada)

It's easy to say "How'd that work for the Russians" and it's true for sure.
But in 20 years one could just as easily turn around and say "How'd that work for the Americans"- throwing hockey bags full of money at a culture already ripe with Bribery and abuse. The Russians were able to cut their losses and get out of dodge, I'm not so sure we'll make such a clean break. We haven't won yet so we can't reference it against the Russians loss.

The threat of terrorists using Afghanistan as a base of operations for attacks against Russia also wasn't an issue.

The reality is, the civilians there want to see a winner. Want to see one now. Someone who can restore some semblance of peace and they will turn to whom ever they think can provide that.

Fair enough. In 2009 I asked am Afghan Tailor on KAF who he preferred NATO or the Taliban- he said when the Taliban were in power he had electricity at his house, no power shortages.

Just a point I'm in no way defending the marines actions. What they did is stupid disgusting and dishonourable and I hope they're booted from the USMC. 
No one cares that what they do to us is 100 times worse. 
I think we just need to stop worrying about looking better than them and carry on knowing we are. When douchbags like this pop up we get rid of them.

[[Editing post to keep it more on track]]

 

[Jarnhamar]

Exactly:

From its earliest moments the operation went awry. The soldiers, with some notable exceptions, did their best. But ill-prepared and rudderless, they fell inevitably into the mire that became the Somalia debacle. As a result, a proud legacy was dishonoured.

Systems broke down and organizational discipline crumbled. Such systemic or institutional faults cannot be divorced from leadership responsibility

http://www.dnd.ca/somalia/vol0/v0s1e.htm

It could be some kind of mental stress injury.
I'm more inclined to believe these idiots are from the do something stupid, film it then post it online culture- no more.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Latest Taliban reaction:  lookit how bad "they" (still) are, and they're going to hear about it (links to Taliban propaganda thread)

Also, it didn't take long for Action Figure Therapy to riff on this (NSFW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyTVkD0w--E&feature=g-all-u&context=G286c713FAAAAAAAAAAA

 

[RCR Grunt]

Devils Advocate

What if we stopped trying to "win hearts and minds" and went for compliance instead.
"Follow the rules that are being laid down before you or else. You think you're life sucks now, raise a sword against us and see what happens".

... I thought that was a part of "win hearts and minds?"  Building schools and wells is only a part, kicking ass and showing the locals who's the boss is another major part, almost more important than the softer side IMO.

 

[armyvern]

... I thought that was a part of "win hearts and minds?"  Building schools and wells is only a part, kicking ass and showing the locals who's the boss is another major part, almost more important than the softer side IMO.

Really?? And here I thought we were guests of the locals and the government there all this time.

Weren't we supposed to be Hearts and Minds with those two groups while showing and and assisting them towards democracy whilst simultaneously kicking the ass of the actual enemy, that's the Taiban (not the locals) and showing the Taliban who was boss??

Perhaps I've missed some important bits in my career and this war though ...


Anyway, I see the US has two of the very unprofessional offenders in custody, another is believed to be deployed right now, but they know the identities of them all ... and are discussing this deplorable incident as a war crime. Good.

 

[RCR Grunt]

Really?? And here I thought we were guests of the locals and the government there all this time.

Weren't we supposed to be Hearts and Minds with those two groups while showing and and assisting them towards democracy whilst simultaneously kicking the *** of the actual enemy, that's the Taiban (not the locals) and showing the Taliban who was boss??

Perhaps I've missed some important bits in my career and this war though ...

Can you reword this with less snark so I can properly reply?  Thanks in advance.

 

[armyvern]

Thanks in advance.

Should have saved that.