Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[suffolkowner]

and where will any on the three find the time or the space to start building out another complete fleet? Davies has yet to cut any steel that I am aware of and the number of ice breakers and associated Artic vessels will keep them busy for at least a decade or more. Plus Irving is the military builder. Even if it is in the corvette range nothing would stop Irving from signing a contract to build and then sub-contract major components or even final assembly to another yard.

I dont think Davie has a space problem, maybe a modernized yard issue and probably a manpower one as well as they all compete with each other.

 

[Rainbow1910]

I would be somewhat apprehensive on what the suggestions of the what the RCN is going to be looking for from the Inocea Group CEO, especially as Davie and other shipbuilders commonly pitch things to the Canadian government that nobody wants like the G-LAAM in the document itself. I still think something along the likes of the Vigilance proposal from Vard is what the RCN is likely to settle on, not a "Corvette".

 

[Rainbow1910]

I dont think Davie has a space problem, maybe a modernized yard issue and probably a manpower one as well as they all compete with each other.

Between their refit/repair contracts for the RCN/CCG, Polar Icebreakers and Program Icebreakers, I see it as being a space issue.

 

[suffolkowner]

I would be somewhat apprehensive on what the suggestions of the what the RCN is going to be looking for from the Inocea Group CEO, especially as Davie and other shipbuilders commonly pitch things to the Canadian government that nobody wants like the G-LAAM in the document itself. I still think something along the likes of the Vigilance proposal from Vard is what the RCN is likely to settle on, not a "Corvette".

its not a corvette because its not armed enough?

 

[GR66]

The only thing that makes me think there might be something to the "Corvette" angle is that they claim to have already contracted Janes to review Corvette designs and have visited companies that have existing designs. They've done all that on spec of course but they obviously feel confident enough that the final requirements for the RCN will be for that type of ship otherwise wouldn't they also be looking at OPV designs, etc?

 

[dapaterson]

RCN officers prefer MGs or Triumphs for their sports cars over Corvettes; that affinity for British vehicles that are more often than not inoperable due to waiting on spares spills over to their choice of vessels.

 

[Rainbow1910]

The only thing that makes me think there might be something to the "Corvette" angle is that they claim to have already contracted Janes to review Corvette designs and have visited companies that have existing designs. They've done all that on spec of course but they obviously feel confident enough that the final requirements for the RCN will be for that type of ship otherwise wouldn't they also be looking at OPV designs, etc?

Shipyard would rather pitch a more capable and thus more expensive design to the Canadian government with the hope of making more money considering that the program and requirements don't exist now. There is incentives for them to push the envelope here.

 

[childs56]

and where will any on the three find the time or the space to start building out another complete fleet? Davies has yet to cut any steel that I am aware of and the number of ice breakers and associated Artic vessels will keep them busy for at least a decade or more. Plus Irving is the military builder. Even if it is in the corvette range nothing would stop Irving from signing a contract to build and then sub-contract major components or even final assembly to another yard.

I think once the dust settles down from the current ship building plan we will see some outside investment in smaller under utilized Canadian shipyards. There are a few around that could be ramped up for production of smaller ships.

 

[Kirkhill]

Shipyard would rather pitch a more capable and thus more expensive design to the Canadian government with the hope of making more money considering that the program and requirements don't exist now. There is incentives for them to push the envelope here.

If 'twere me then I would sooner the NSS limit be altered upwards a couple of hundred tonnes, if necessary, to bring the smaller yards into play. Also, taking the opportunity to continue beating the automation drum, I think that would leave open more minimally crewed, optionally crewed vessels.

 

[suffolkowner]

Between their refit/repair contracts for the RCN/CCG, Polar Icebreakers and Program Icebreakers, I see it as being a space issue.

I was under the impression that Davie had lots and lots of room

RCN officers prefer MGs or Triumphs for their sports cars over Corvettes; that affinity for British vehicles that are more often than not inoperable due to waiting on spares spills over to their choice of vessels.

do Austin Healeys count?

 

[Rainbow1910]

I think once the dust settles down from the current ship building plan we will see some outside investment in smaller under utilized Canadian shipyards. There are a few around that could be ramped up for production of smaller ships.

If 'twere me then I would sooner the NSS limit be altered upwards a couple of hundred tonnes, if necessary, to bring the smaller yards into play. Also, taking the opportunity to continue beating the automation drum, I think that would leave open more minimally crewed, optionally crewed vessels.

Unlikely to happen as it goes directly in the face of the goals of the NSS, which is to ensure long term operation and feasibility of the major shipyards by providing them with extended periods of work. Taking this work away from them and dumping it into smaller yards is directly fighting this goal.

I was under the impression that Davie had lots and lots of room

They apparently have 5 construction births but that is not the bottleneck, it is the supply chain, staff and equipment in the yard. They can't build likely more than a pair of ships at one time with any amount of efficiency.

 

[suffolkowner]

Unlikely to happen as it goes directly in the face of the goals of the NSS, which is to ensure long term operation and feasibility of the major shipyards by providing them with extended periods of work. Taking this work away from them and dumping it into smaller yards is directly fighting this goal.


They apparently have 5 construction births but that is not the bottleneck, it is the supply chain, staff and equipment in the yard. They can't build likely more than a pair of ships at one time with any amount of efficiency.

yeah that makes sense theres probably a lot of stealing from Peter to pay Paul going on.

Davie claims
580000 m2 shipyard
5 construction berths
53000 m2 workshop
180 m drydock
360 m drydock
900 m service dock

Irving
39500m2 shipyard
AOPS workshop 22000m2 360m L x 61m W x 50m H
11000m2 workshop Woodside?
9270m2 at Marine Fabricators
Bluenose ???
CSC Assembly hall to be 13770m2 170m L x 81 m W x 49 m H


Seaspan ??

 

[Furniture]

The only thing that makes me think there might be something to the "Corvette" angle is that they claim to have already contracted Janes to review Corvette designs and have visited companies that have existing designs. They've done all that on spec of course but they obviously feel confident enough that the final requirements for the RCN will be for that type of ship otherwise wouldn't they also be looking at OPV designs, etc?

With 6 AOPVs already built/on order for the RCN, it makes sense to explore a small warship design like a corvette. There is no guarantee we'll go that way, but exploring the options is smart.

 

[Edward Campbell]

It's important to remember that THE key driver for the MCDVs was political direction to "do something" to revitalize (save?) some yards, it ended up being Halifax Shipyards but my memory suggests it was not Minister Lamontagne's first choice.

 

[Stoker]

Yes I can confirm that a corvette type vessel is going to be what's being looked at. There are people looking at the statement of requirements for that class of ship. They want the ship to be globally deployable however it won't be operating helos and it won't have an extensive combat suite. More than likely in the realm of the River Class. Also keep in mind other than the few personnel working on this, its neither funded or in the future strategic plan as of yet.

Very surprised that Davies propaganda wing hasn't posted more on this as they want the business. If I were to make bets you'll see a yard inland getting this. End of the day we need replacements for the Kingston Class, we have essentially 2 paid off right now and 2 at anytime getting refitted. AOPS is being looked at replacing the class as MCM ships, although way too much of a ship for that.

 

[TacticalTea]

Yes I can confirm that a corvette type vessel is going to be what's being looked at. There are people looking at the statement of requirements for that class of ship. They want the ship to be globally deployable however it won't be operating helos and it won't have an extensive combat suite. More than likely in the realm of the River Class. Also keep in mind other than the few personnel working on this, its neither funded or in the future strategic plan as of yet.

Very surprised that Davies propaganda wing hasn't posted more on this as they want the business. If I were to make bets you'll see a yard inland getting this. End of the day we need replacements for the Kingston Class, we have essentially 2 paid off right now at 180 days NFP and 2 at anytime getting refitted. AOPS is being looked at replacing the class as MCM ships, although way too much of a ship for that.

Haven't we figured out how to do MCM by drone/mothership yet?

 

[dimsum]

Haven't we figured out how to do MCM by drone/mothership yet?

That’s assuming that it’s all the MCDV (or replacement) does.

 

[TacticalTea]

That’s assuming that it’s all the MCDV (or replacement) does.

It doesn't assume anything, I'm replying directly to what Stoker said.

See now highlighted part.

 

[Stoker]

Haven't we figured out how to do MCM by drone/mothership yet?

That's what we do now and AOPS can handle the job I would think. AOPS doesn't have the extra protection of degaussing and AOPS is way larger in displacement and draft than the size of the MCM ships in OP Reassurance. We should have something in my opinion more in line of what we have now and lower operating costs that come with it.

 

[TacticalTea]

That's what we do now and AOPS can handle the job I would think. AOPS doesn't have the extra protection of degaussing and AOPS is way larger in displacement and draft than the size of the MCM ships in OP Reassurance. We should have something in my opinion more in line of what we have now and lower operating costs that come with it.

Yeah. So essentially the ship can do the job, but the question is do we really want to sent such a massive investment into such a risky mission, when something much cheaper could do it.

Have I got this right?