Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Prairie canuck]

There are other options to the Vigilance. From what I could find, Naval groups Gowind 1000 and Serco's Atlas 85 come the closest to matching Vigilance's size and capabilities. However the built in Canada with Canadian steel and technology aspects of Vigilance would likely discourage most others in an open competition. That being said, then release the RFQ asap and "git er done".

 

[Czech_pivo]

It's also a bit too long at 117m.

According to Noah's substack article about an interview with Vice-Admiral Topshee there is a requirement for the length to be in the 104m (+/- a couple of meters) in order to use existing berth space:



Now, with the more recent commitments to increase defence spending to 2% (+1.5%) of GDP there may be much more appetite to spend money on infrastructure upgrades which may allow for longer vessels. The only issue with larger ships though is that they tend to also come with larger crewing requirements which is problematic.

Personally I'd rather see a little less capability creep and a more conventional Corvette in the sub-100m size and make up for any lost capability with uncrewed sensor USVs/UUVs and uncrewed arsenal ships.

If we have 15 CSC, 12 Subs, 6 AOPS and 2-3 JSS and these 12 Corvettes, we are going to need more berth space, regardless if the Corvettes are 90m or 110m.

 

[Stoker]

If we have 15 CSC, 12 Subs, 6 AOPS and 2-3 JSS and these 12 Corvettes, we are going to need more berth space, regardless if the Corvettes are 90m or 110m.

Yes we're going to need a lot of things. Off the top of my head jetty space, docking capability, jetty infrastructure including new cranes, shore power hook ups, warehousing even possibly maintenance and training facilities.

 

[dapaterson]

Some poor political staffer is going to read "SSK" and we'll end up with sub trainers and sub force HQ in South Saskatchewan.

 

[DBNSG]

Yes we're going to need a lot of things. Off the top of my head jetty space, docking capability, jetty infrastructure including new cranes, shore power hook ups, warehousing even possibly maintenance and training facilities.

Too true, its an interesting perspective while crossing The MacDonald Bridge over to Halifax , with the Irving Shoreside expansion underway. We should extend that project and build a 1200 ft long Drydock to the South of the Irving seawall. That would replicate the Esquimalt Drydock capabilities. Having the ability to ground up to Three ships at the same time on each Coast is proper planning at the least.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Too true, its an interesting perspective while crossing The MacDonald Bridge over to Halifax , with the Irving Shoreside expansion underway. We should extend that project and build a 1200 ft long Drydock to the South of the Irving seawall. That would replicate the Esquimalt Drydock capabilities. Having the ability to ground up to Three ships at the same time on each Coast is proper planning at the least.

Would also allow for a ‘Mistral’ sized ship in the future as well….

 

[DBNSG]

Would also allow for a ‘Mistral’ sized ship in the future as well….

Shhhhhh!!!

 

[Stoker]

Would also allow for a ‘Mistral’ sized ship in the future as well….

Last thing we would need, much like the 3rd tanker.

 

[PrairieFella]

Last thing we would need, much like the 3rd tanker.

But they look cool!

 

[Prairie canuck]

But they look cool!

Davies' G-LAAM is likely better suited to Canada's needs than Mistral. Provides RAS, Multiple Helicopters, Vehicle transport, and ice capable.

 

[PrairieFella]

View attachment 95310
Davies' G-LAAM is likely better suited to Canada's needs than Mistral. Provides RAS, Multiple Helicopters, Vehicle transport, and ice capable.

Alas, it doesn't look as cool.

 

[Stoker]

View attachment 95310
Davies' G-LAAM is likely better suited to Canada's needs than Mistral. Provides RAS, Multiple Helicopters, Vehicle transport, and ice capable.

Like the Mistral a pie in the sky.

 

[Stoker]

View attachment 95310
Davies' G-LAAM is likely better suited to Canada's needs than Mistral. Provides RAS, Multiple Helicopters, Vehicle transport, and ice capable.

Not like we're going to RAS up in the Arctic. AOPV certainly won't be RASing

 

[Prairie canuck]

Not like we're going to RAS up in the Arctic. AOPV certainly won't be RASing

It doesn't have to spend all it's time in the arctic. There's plenty of other oceans to operate in.

 

[Stoker]

It doesn't have to spend all it's time in the arctic. There's plenty of other oceans to operate in.

And what exactly will it be doing in those other oceans? the RAS capability it will have is a secondary feature. It sure as hell won't be supporting a task group. HADR?, give that to the CG not the RCN.

 

[Furniture]

VAdm Topshee recently did an interview with CDR Magazine regarding the Continental Defence Corvette program and gave some interesting information about what he's looking for:



It sounds like the program is undergoing serious feature creep, to the point we're talking about a Halifax class like capability that has an Polar Class 6~ rating. We're getting further and further away from an actual Kingston class replacement in practice and in spirit, and a lot closer to a corvette or frigate. I am concerned we might start undercutting the River class at this rate with a far less capable vessel.

Of interest to @Kirkhill potentially, Vard showcased some renders of what looks to be Vigilance derived unmanned combatants in the recent CDR edition as well.

View attachment 95290

View attachment 95291

Based on the CRCN's comments when he started talking about the CMMC/CDC, a straight replacement for the MCDV was never the plan.

The MCDVs are "peace divided" ships like the AOPV, not combatants. The corvettes were always supposed to be combatants.

I agree it sounds like scope creep is happening, but maybe it's less scope creep, and more bouncing ideas to see what sticks with the GoC. At this time "arctic capability" is the spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down...

 

[DBNSG]

Based on the CRCN's comments when he started talking about the CMMC/CDC, a straight replacement for the MCDV was never the plan.

The MCDVs are "peace divided" ships like the AOPV, not combatants. The corvettes were always supposed to be combatants.

I agree it sounds like scope creep is happening, but maybe it's less scope creep, and more bouncing ideas to see what sticks with the GoC. At this time "arctic capability" is the spoonful of sugar to help the medicine go down...

Topshee is the best salesman the RCN has had in our lifetime. Not afraid to speak truth to power or educate the taxpayer .

 

[PrairieFella]

Topshee is the best salesman the RCN has had in our lifetime. Not afraid to speak truth to power or educate the taxpayer .

Ive been thinking that. Kinda hoping he gets tapped for the big boss so he can advocate for the army too lol.

 

[Swampbuggy]

Last thing we would need, much like the 3rd tanker.

Am I reading this right and that you don’t think a 3rd JSS would be beneficial?

 

[GK .Dundas]

Last thing we would need, much like the 3rd tanker.

Not the last thing we need as far as equipment goes.....maybe out of a list of 10 or 12 items ,7th or 8th ?
Certainly not a top priority personally I'd like 2 or more tankers and some sort of Depot ship .