Maritime Coastal Defence Vessels (MCDVs)

[Maxman1]

Or the CB90.

 

[Underway]

Or the CB90.

So cool. Way cooler than the Visby.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

So cool. Way cooler than the Visby.

But totally useless for the role that is being contemplated for the CDC ... or even for what the MCDVs used to do for us, as a matter of fact.

 

[Kirkhill]

But totally useless for the role that is being contemplated for the CDC ... or even for what the MCDVs used to do for us, as a matter of fact.

I don't know. Something in the 50 to 70 m range with a pair of CB90 interceptors on board might be interesting.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I don't know. Something in the 50 to 70 m range with a pair of CB90 interceptors on board might be interesting.

For what???

 

[Stoker]

For what???

SAR?

 

[Maxman1]

For what???

 

[Furniture]

For what???

Caribe, and missions like that.

Having ships with fast and capable boats is pretty much never a bad thing.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Re: OP CARIBE: With the current American going-on down there, I wouldn't be surprised to see Canadian participation being curtailed for a while.

I note here that it is the only operation in the few offered above that could be a CDC mission.

 

[GR66]

Re: OP CARIBE: With the current American going-on down there, I wouldn't be surprised to see Canadian participation being curtailed for a while.

I note here that it is the only operation in the few offered above that could be a CDC mission.

Agreed. Ideally the RCN should have something similar to the Kingston-Class to fulfill those roles that are overkill for the CDC. The problem is does the RCN have the capacity to have both? And in this time of extreme global instability if you had to choose one over the other would you choose to have the CDC which can play a useful wartime role if the SHTF (but be overkill for those other missions), or get a true Kingston-Class replacement that can cost effectively do those other roles but has minimal contribution in a conflict?

 

[daftandbarmy]

Agreed. Ideally the RCN should have something similar to the Kingston-Class to fulfill those roles that are overkill for the CDC. The problem is does the RCN have the capacity to have both? And in this time of extreme global instability if you had to choose one over the other would you choose to have the CDC which can play a useful wartime role if the SHTF (but be overkill for those other missions), or get a true Kingston-Class replacement that can cost effectively do those other roles but has minimal contribution in a conflict?

I am well out of my depth here but since we're potentially looking at South Korea as a supplier....

Yangyang-class minesweeper - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I am well out of my depth here but since we're potentially looking at South Korea as a supplier....

Sure. If you want a minehunter from the era of the old ways we do mine clearance, go ahead. just so you know: large ships built of Glass Reinforced Plastic and with non-magnetic engines are basically the most expensive warship to build on a per ton basis (that's right, more than even nuclear attack submarines).

If you want something to replace the MCDV that can do mine warfare, general patrol duties, law enforcement or constabulary work with high speed boats for boarding purpose and generally be useful training platforms to boot, I suggest something akin to these:

 

[Rainbow1910]

Agreed. Ideally the RCN should have something similar to the Kingston-Class to fulfill those roles that are overkill for the CDC. The problem is does the RCN have the capacity to have both? And in this time of extreme global instability if you had to choose one over the other would you choose to have the CDC which can play a useful wartime role if the SHTF (but be overkill for those other missions), or get a true Kingston-Class replacement that can cost effectively do those other roles but has minimal contribution in a conflict?

Topshee recently mentioned in an interview with Noah that he wasn't interested in procuring another Kingston class, as effectively they are something we could get the same capability by purchasing/seizing pre-built civilian offshore vessels when required, hence the pivot to corvette combatants.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Topshee recently mentioned in an interview with Noah that he wasn't interested in procuring another Kingston class, as effectively they are something we could get the same capability by purchasing/seizing pre-built civilian offshore vessels when required, hence the pivot to corvette combatants.

I will argue that without some dedicated MCM vessels, the skillset will fade. At a time that the technology both in the mines and detection is going to be evolving rapidly.

 

[Kirkhill]

Sure. If you want a minehunter from the era of the old ways we do mine clearance, go ahead. just so you know: large ships built of Glass Reinforced Plastic and with non-magnetic engines are basically the most expensive warship to build on a per ton basis (that's right, more than even nuclear attack submarines).

If you want something to replace the MCDV that can do mine warfare, general patrol duties, law enforcement or constabulary work with high speed boats for boarding purpose and generally be useful training platforms to boot, I suggest something akin to these:

View attachment 96790View attachment 96791

You could definitely get a couple of CB90s on one of those.

....

WRT Trump in the Caribbean... is the alternative to offer some Canadian style policing in the area? Offer to do more, not less?

We could offer to supply more support to the Lesser Antilles, most of whom are fellow members of the Commonwealth.

 

[Prairie canuck]

You could definitely get a couple of CB90s on one of those.

....

WRT Trump in the Caribbean... is the alternative to offer some Canadian style policing in the area? Offer to do more, not less?

We could offer to supply more support to the Lesser Antilles, most of whom are fellow members of the Commonwealth.

Withdraw from the Caribbean completely and stay well clear of the ensuing F-up.

 

[Kirkhill]

Withdraw from the Caribbean completely and stay well clear of the ensuing F-up.

Withdraw from Europe completely and stay well clear of the ensuing F-up.

And I have got more skin in the European game than most of you.

We could say the same about Asia.

 

[GR66]

Withdraw from the Caribbean completely and stay well clear of the ensuing F-up.

Withdraw from Europe completely and stay well clear of the ensuing F-up.

And I have got more skin in the European game than most of you.

We could say the same about Asia.

The Caribbean is our back yard. More potential impact to us directly is things go to hell there.

Russia is an Arctic nation and a nuclear power and NATO are our traditional political allies.

China is a major economic power and a nuclear power. The other nations of SE Asia have possibly the greatest potential to be the export markets we need to grow our economy.

We have interests in all of these areas. The question is what exactly should our military involvement be in each?

 

[Stoker]

Topshee recently mentioned in an interview with Noah that he wasn't interested in procuring another Kingston class, as effectively they are something we could get the same capability by purchasing/seizing pre-built civilian offshore vessels when required, hence the pivot to corvette combatants.

I hate to say it but he's not wrong. The type of MCM systems we currently have and on the way , you would just need a offshore supply vessel for the diving and MCM payloads. Much the same as HMCS Moresby and HMCS Anticosti were back the day although they mostly just fielded the mechanical systems to develop the skills before the Kingston Class were built.
I would prefer to have a purpose built MCM ship with at least a good degaussing system but the other solution would get you there though.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I hate to say it but he's not wrong. The type of MCM systems we currently have and on the way , you would just need a offshore supply vessel for the diving and MCM payloads. Much the same as HMCS Moresby and HMCS Anticosti were back the day although they mostly just fielded the mechanical systems to develop the skills before the Kingston Class were built.
I would prefer to have a purpose built MCM ship with at least a good degaussing system but the other solution would get you there though.View attachment 96796

There is no doubt about that, if the need arises. But I think that Colin was referring to the fact that without such ships in service as of the day of the decommissioning of the last MCDV, the skill set in the personnel, and the availability of the actual MCM equipment may not be there as fast as we can requisition the ships from civilian sources.

WRT Trump in the Caribbean... is the alternative to offer some Canadian style policing in the area? Offer to do more, not less?

Agreed, but NOT with the Americans, but as a counter weight to the Americans. It would protect our own Canadian interests in the region and probably get us a lot more clout in the region.

Topshee recently mentioned in an interview with Noah that he wasn't interested in procuring another Kingston class,

Topshee is a smart cookie, you can trust there is plan behind all this. He is also a smooth political operator (in the sense of internal politicking of the DND/PMO). And I bet it is the thread that goes through every decision of the RCN since WWII: Protect the escort fleet.

He inherits the fleet at an interesting juncture. One class of vessels (MCDV) is being retired, so now is a good time to claim that a new one is needed to cover some of its old function and start to push for a program to begin. Simultaneously, our position vis-a-vis the Americans require us to do more for our own coastal defense, and the replacement high-end fleet will take some time before it comes on line in sufficient numbers to account for the inevitable self-retirement of many HAL's.

A CDC makes perfect sense. More than a MCDV but capable of doing a MCDV work, but less than a RCD yet capable of carrying out many of the missions now entrusted to the HAL's, such as anti-piracy in the Gulf (why not, the French do those with their Floreal light frigates).