MARS Training [Merged]

[FSTO]

Okay, folks, new guy here. I am a 15 year MARS officer currently stationed at NADEN @ Esquimalt.
Here is the skinney on being a MARS Officer:
You must be mentally tough - able to take in multiple inputs/prioritize them/make a recommendation to Command or if they are not available make a decision (the correct one).
You must be a team player - Especially during courses like MARS III/MARS IV/FNO/ORO you will not get anywhere unless you work together
Learn from your superiors and subordinates - Take every opportunity to pick the brains of the CO/XO/ CBTO/DeckO they have a wealth of experience and are more than willing to give you info for a couple of beers (especially in foreign port)
Also the MS to CPO1 have a tons of experience that you can learn from. Also in every org there are doers and talkers, you'll be able to make out the difference. Show the doers an ounce of respect-they'll go to the wall for you. Dismiss them and treat them like dirt at your peril.
As OOW learn how to delegate. If you don't you'll quickly get swamped and buried by the overflow of information.

Career Path:
Recruit Centre
BOTC - St Jean
Venture - Esquimalt
                MARS II - YAGS
                MARS III - Damage Control / Firefighting
                MARS IV - MCDV's  Officer of the Day
           
Posting to Frigate/Destroyer/AOR - Halifax or Esquimalt
Officer of the Watch Qualification followed by C of C II board
6 months consolidation
Director Level course  FNO/SAC/AAWD/ASWD
Shore posting
ORO course
Command Qualification
on and on  and on

Hope this helps!

 

[Phrontis]

Ahoy. I'm responding to RyanNS primarily, and in particular the questions asked below.


1) How tough is the MARS course? What is involved? I mean academically more than anything. I'm not particularly strong in Math or Science.

2) What would my schedule be like as soon as I enlist? I've looked at the basic description of a MARS officer on the Navys recruiting sight, but it seems rather vague and doesn't give much of a timeline.

3) It says that training will be done on a Destroyer. Are all MARS officers trained first only on Destroyers or are Frigates a possibilty?

4) What is daily life at sea like for a MARS officer? Living conditions? Daily routines?

5) What are career options for MARS officers after they leave the forces?

The MARS training at VENTURE, The Naval Officers Training Centre in Esquimalt BC, undertaken after BOTC and Second Language Training (SLT) for DEO candidates, is challenging, but no harder, I would say, than anything you've done at university. The challenge, rather, is in the nature of the training, as opposed to the amount or complexity of the training. What I mean is that MARS training embraces a specific set of skills, to which some people take more readily than others. For instance, someone who quickly grasps spatial relationships, is good with mental math, and can process more than one input at a time, would generally do well at MARS training.

So, although some background in math can help, it is by no means required. I manage, and my background is as artsy as it comes. (Having said that, one is expected to do mental math on the bridge and some basic math in deriving tidal and astro information.)

Regarding postings to frigates vs. destroyers, you have much more chance of ending up in a frigate than you do a destroyer, as there are currently 12 of the former and only three of the latter. There are also three replenishment ships to which new MARS officers can be posted.

Life at sea for a MARS officer is an odd mix. On the plus side, very early in his/her career, a MARS officer gets a great deal of responsibility, in that the Officer of the Watch (OOW) is basically the Captain's representative on the bridge and has charge of the safety and conduct of the ship and everyone in it (except the CO and XO). Moreso than many of the crew, a MARS officer will be more involved in knowing where the ship is and what she's doing. Also, the range of activities one is exposed to and involved with makes for a very interesting job, with as many new challenges as one would care to embrace. The best part (and this is not unique to the MARS qualification) is travelling all around the world working with the finest bunch of people you'd care to meet, as part of a professional team. If there's a downside, it would have to be that life at sea for a MARS officer can be tiring. Being a watchkeeper requires that MARS officers man the bridge and Operations Room 24 and 7 for weeks at a time. This is done in various rotations which must be carried out in addition to one's regular duties. Over a longer period of time, it takes a person who can find within himself the ability to dig deep and carry on despite being tired.

Although there are some careers outside of the Navy which relate more or less directly to being a MARS officer, such as commercial marine transport and harbour management, the leadership, management and staff skills one acquires as a MARS officer open a wider range of possible careers. A MARS officer is a problem solver and a decision maker, and these traits are always sought.

I hope that is of some help.

 

[Phrontis]

Ahoy again.

Sorry, I had a flashback; there are currently only two replenishment ships, one per coast, to which a MARS officer could be posted.

 

[Missile Man]

Career Path:
Recruit Centre
BOTC - St Jean
Venture - Esquimalt
                 MARS II - YAGS
                 MARS III - Damage Control / Firefighting
                 MARS IV - MCDV's   Officer of the Day
           
Posting to Frigate/Destroyer/AOR - Halifax or Esquimalt
Officer of the Watch Qualification followed by C of C II board
6 months consolidation
Director Level course   FNO/SAC/AAWD/ASWD
Shore posting
ORO course
Command Qualification
on and on   and on

Hope this helps!

Hey RyanNS,

FTSO preaches the gospel, my friend.  Ensure you saddle on up to the experienced LS, MS, up to Chiefs when you reach the fleet.  They are a WEALTH of information, and mostly love talking about their job and experiences which will greatly aid you intergrating into the fleet.  Just a couple of points on the MARS career paths.  There are 2 other Director Level ways you can go after Certificate of Competency II -Subs and IMD (Information Management Director).  Subs has recently opened up to non-D-level qual Officers, and IMD is a brand new D Level that shows some promise.  After your Director tour, you do not always go ashore!  You may be kept onboard and employed as the Deck Officer (a really fun job) or the CCISO (Communications, Information etc).  Take your time before going ORO!  Don't rush!  With the huge attrition rates of MARS Officers, coupled with lower enrollment, many people rush into ORO and hit the wall.  Take your time, smell the roses of the MARS life.  Ask any questions you like, and I am sure FTSO will be happy to answer them as well.  Being informed is the key prior to getting into a career like this.  (I love my job, incidentally, and you have to to keep with this trade).  Cheers,

 

[RyanNS]

Thanks for the info Missile Man   This is exactly the type of stuff I am looking for. I have a small group of good friends who are NCM's in the Navy but they rarely feel like talking about their Naval careers at all. I guess they seem to view it too much as "work" and aren't too interested about it when they are off duty. I am still gathering alot of information on possible military careers and am not 100% commited to any branch of the forces yet, but its basically between MARS, Infantry and Pilot (my primary choice but highly unlikely due to my educational background). I have just a few more questions if you don't mind  

1)What is typically involved in a shore posting and is it always at a Naval base? Does the Navy post many officers way inland?

2)What exactly is ORO and the ORO course?



Thanks again

Ryan

 

[FSTO]

Thanks for the info Missile Man   This is exactly the type of stuff I am looking for. I have a small group of good friends who are NCM's in the Navy but they rarely feel like talking about their Naval careers at all. I guess they seem to view it too much as "work" and aren't too interested about it when they are off duty. I am still gathering alot of information on possible military careers and am not 100% commited to any branch of the forces yet, but its basically between MARS, Infantry and Pilot (my primary choice but highly unlikely due to my educational background). I have just a few more questions if you don't mind  

1)What is typically involved in a shore posting and is it always at a Naval base? Does the Navy post many officers way inland?

2)What exactly is ORO and the ORO course?





Thanks again

Ryan

1) Shore posting:
Is when you are posted off the ship and lose Sea Pay. As an officer (West Coast perspective) you can be employed at Venture (Naval Officer Training Centre) as a course training officer or at the Canadian Forces Fleet School Esquimalt as training officer or training support officer.
As for inland postings: All the Naval Reserve Divisions have reg force officers and NCM posted there, there is also Kingston RMC and finally OTTAWA where you get chewed up in the maw of NDHQ.

2)ORO Officer/ORO Course: Operations Room Officer is the officer who runs the operations room and fights the ship. Arguably the second most important officer on the ship. CPF's will have 3 ORO qual officers, Combat Officer (Department Head) Weapons Officer and  Operations Officer (port and stbd watch officers). ORO Course is a year long course held in Halifax in which you are supposed to learn everything you need to know to be an ORO.

 

[NavyGunner]

Worst job in the Navy IMHO!

Crappy hours, no respect. There are MUCH better jobs than MARS!!

 

[x-grunt]

Worst job in the Navy IMHO!

Crappy hours, no respect. There are MUCH better jobs than MARS!!

Okay, I'll bite. What are they and why do you consider them better? ( I am assuming you meant what you said, or are you just poking a little fun at MARS types?)

 

[FredDaHead]

Worst job in the Navy IMHO!

Crappy hours, no respect. There are MUCH better jobs than MARS!!

Sure, it might not be as glamorous as Hollywoods wants us to believe... (I dunno, but I'm assuming with the facts/opinions I've read so far)

But there's a craploads of not-so-glamorous jobs in the world. Say, garbageperson (gotta be a bit PC eh?) or janitor, or whatever. Someone's gotta do those jobs, even if it's not always pleasant.

And remember, maybe you don't like the jobs, but I'm sure a bunch of MARS officer love their jobs. At least, I hope so.

 

[Torlyn]

And remember, maybe you don't like the jobs, but I'm sure a bunch of MARS officer love their jobs. At least, I hope so.

I can guarantee many of the MARS officers do love their jobs, I frequently talk to quite a few of them...  Perhaps a bit of MOC envy?? 

T

 

[TR23]

How does MARS training in the Naval Reserves stack up against the Regs?  I thought I read somewhere that the training for NCMs was equivalent, actually the same courses.  Am I correct in believing that?  I assume there must be some differences in the officer training because the Regs have some submarine elements do they not?  Also, is it true that a Reserve MARS Officer can do all their training in 1 year, instead of over several summers?

 

[x-grunt]

My understanding is that MARS training from BOTC through MARS IV is identical for Reg and Res. What happens after that is significantly different due to the different platforms ie. CFP's vs MCDV's etc.

I was told that the 1 yr training was available but I had the impression it was hard to get if you are RESO, maybe not so much if you are DEO. I do not know the specifics of this.

Please note that I am still in the application process for re-enlistment, so I am not speaking from direct experience, just lots of research and conversations at my NRD.

 

[navymich]

When you have completed the classroom phase of MARS IV, both reg and reserve do their sea phase onboard an MCDV.   The reg force version is 6 (or 8??) weeks long, while the reserve is 10 weeks.   The difference is that the reg are there for their bridgewatchkeeping, navigation etc, plus their basic seamanship including all evolutions and damage control.   The reserves add on to that with their OOD pack and more platform-specific stuff.

There have been many crses onboard that have a mix of both reg and reserve, and they were mixed in class too.

 

[TR23]

Great, thanks for info guys.

 

[x-grunt]

Update to this thread, I was just informed by my NRD recruiter that the NavRes BOTC is being reworked, and may be reduced in length to match the RMC BOTC model. (7 or 8 weeks in the summer plus an in unit training module) Details not yet known, everything subject to confirmation.

 

[RyanNS]

In the coming months I have to decide what MOC I want to choose and I have narrowed it done between MARS and some other choices. I was wondering if there was a MARS officer on here that I could PM, e-mail, add to messenger or just talk to, to get a better idea of life as a MARS officer. Thanks.

Ryan

 

[jd.trick]

Hello,

I'm new to this forum, but have been visiting Navy.ca for some time and it has been very useful for me; thanks.  I am considering joining the Navy as a MARS officer.  The only thing which is making me hesitate is the amount of time I'm going to have to spend away from home (Halifax).  I understand the probability of being posted to Halifax is high, but how long from the time I begin Basic to the time I end NOTC will I be away from my family?  I've seen all the outlines but they all seem to carry caveats so I was looking for an idea from someone who has gone through this as to how long the combined basic, second language training and NOTC will take?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

All I can say is that if you can't accept leaving your home/hometown don't join the forces. The best time to leave your hometown is when you are young and single, no matter what you do, most interesting jobs require some amount of movement to get rank or seniority. Better to do it now, than when you have a family.

 

[jd.trick]

Thanks for the post.  I understand there will be sacrifices and requirements to move. My question was more focused on if it was going to be necessary to relocate my family initially or if the training aspect away from where we are now (Halifax) is reasonable (I don't know what reasonable is right now, best ask my wife that one) then I would simply go it alone as opposed to moving my family to the west coast only to move back nine months, a year, a year and a half later.  It this timeline I'm trying to get a handle on.

Thanks again

 

[niceasdrhuxtable]

I'm not sure the Navy would be your best choice if your family has an issue with you being away frequently for extended periods. You may want to look more at trades which don't tend to "travel" as much.