"Master Corporals" - Merged Thread

[Bart Nikodem]

What I haven't read about on this thread or the Offr, Snr NCO etc, thread is the idea of a completely combined mess. That is all ranks in one mess. I have been a member of just a Junior ranks mess and a combined one and I really didn't feel one was superior to the other. If anything I like that currently I am in a combined mess because since most of my friends have more talent/initiative then I do, they are mostly Sargeants by now. I suppose if i wasn't in a combined mess it might give me more of a reason to work harder to get into the Sargeants mess but since I'm not then I don't.
I understand a combined mess is a rare breed and for the record mine is composed mostly of Reserve CSS trades, but I don't see how it couldn't work in other places.
All the best,
Bart

 

[combat_medic]

I don't think the idea of a combined mess is wise, particularly in a combat arms unit. While the MCpl/Sgts may be buddies and did training together, I imagine the last thing an RSM wants to do is deal with a bunch of rowdy privates in his time off. I'm also sure that the privates don't want to have to censure their behaviour because they're forced to wind down in front of their entire CoC.

I think the more rigid discipline that a combat arms unit fosters is entirely why it wouldn't work. You need to be able to unwind, and having your CO or RSM at the next table would probably make that an impossibility.

 

[reccecrewman]

Definitely not a combined mess........... I would think that would make for a very tense and stuffy mess.  Nobody would want to hang out there for longer than a beer or two.  After that, time to get out of Dodge. It's important for the separate groups to have their own little corners where they can bitch about certain people, and have a good time in their peers company.  On a similar note, I've heard from a few different people including one on a mess committee that there has been instances of messes "borrowing" cash from other messes. (And it is not the JR's doing the borrowing - they do the lending)  Apparently it gets announced at mess meetings (which very few attend)  I think I'll start attending them, cause the Officer's mess is much more swank than the JR's, and if there were some new attractions to the mess, I know of many people who would be more inclined to go. 

 

[Franko]

Apparently it gets announced at mess meetings (which very few attend)  I think I'll start attending them...

Mess meetings are held in the Base Theater and are must attend.   

Regards

 

[reccecrewman]

Come on Franko, you know just as well as I do that the entire mess membership doesn't attend them.  Maybe they show up at the beginning, but at the end, they're gone.  Speaking for myself, I will ensure I am present for the duration. (I have fallen asleep in a few also) I can see now that silence is acceptance........... 

 

[Procrast]

Hey i know this may sound like a really dumb question but can a NCO sit in the officer mess and/or vice versa?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

On a similar note, I've heard from a few different people including one on a mess committee that there has been instances of messes "borrowing" cash from other messes. (And it is not the JR's doing the borrowing - they do the lending)  Apparently it gets announced at mess meetings (which very few attend)  I think I'll start attending them, cause the Officer's mess is much more swank than the JR's, and if there were some new attractions to the mess, I know of many people who would be more inclined to go. 

All funds are administered under the auspices of NPF. The Base Commander is the designator of those funds. If you have to much cash in the bank, just sitting there, he can designate it for the purpose he deems necessary, like bailing out another mess that happens to be running in the red.. Want to stop it? Forecast and earmark all your excess profits for long term projects in your yearly budget. If they're already allocated, they won't touch them.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Not completely true.  It seemed in Chilliwack in the '80s that the Base Commander delighted in the telling the JRs Mess that we couldn't spend our money as we wanted.  Every big ticket item that was voted on, was summarily executed at dawn the next day.  End result:  End of FY, lots of lovely extra money in JRs account, and the grownups messes were skint, as usual.  A more suspicious man might find this fishy, but not me....... 8)

 

[combat_medic]

Hey i know this may sound like a really dumb question but can a NCO sit in the officer mess and/or vice versa?

They can, if they are invited, or they are performing a duty there (Duty Officer, bartending etc.). As well, the CO can enter the mess without permission, although permission is often asked, out of courtesy. There are also functions which are held by one mess, but that are open to the general membership, or occasions like Remembrance Day in which a CO can open the messes.

 

[GO!!!]

Not completely true.  It seemed in Chilliwack in the '80s that the Base Commander delighted in the telling the JRs Mess that we couldn't spend our money as we wanted.  Every big ticket item that was voted on, was summarily executed at dawn the next day.  End result:  End of FY, lots of lovely extra money in JRs account, and the grownups messes were skint, as usual.  A more suspicious man might find this fishy, but not me....... 8)

Interestingly enough, much of that money is now part of the Edmonton JRC mess fund.

It keeps accumulating, year after year, but any attempts to spend it on all but the necessities are shot down (usually by the supervising officer). Now what can we do with that extra 350K?.....

 

[Cannonfodder]

Interestingly enough, much of that money is now part of the Edmonton JRC mess fund.

It keeps accumulating, year after year, but any attempts to spend it on all but the necessities are shot down (usually by the supervising officer). Now what can we do with that extra 350K?.....

 

[Cannonfodder]

  Back in the day the JRC in Winnipeg used to have strippers at lunchtime , now 350K , wow !!, I guess that is why they dont let us have control over the funds .

 

[GO!!!]

   Back in the day the JRC in Winnipeg used to have strippers at lunchtime , now 350K , wow !!, I guess that is why they dont let us have control over the funds .

Dream on...what if some female soldier was offended?

The fun police keep the JRC nice and quiet, believe it or not, people go there and complain about loud music, dim lighting and the presence of too many girls. Apparently it interferes with their dart games.

As a result, it is quiet, bright and uniformly male. At the last mess meeting, an attempt was made to build a heated smoking gazebo, but was shot down because no more "structures" will be authorised on JRC property.

In another 10 years I predict that the JRs will become extinct, they just don't serve much of a purpose.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

Before I ask this, let me set the stage: I serve at a reserve CS unit which has not had an NCO corps of any size in some time. Most folks here do not stick around long enough to get promoted past Cpl. We do have a couple of WOs and Sgts, but not enough to flesh out the ARE by a long shot, and what we do have are either deployed or on contract, and as such we don't see them in unit lines that often...

That said, I have found in my experience that a master corporal (at my unit, at any rate) is treated more or less another corporal, but one who can do all the stuff that a sergeant either isn't around for or doesn't want to do (PERs, UERs, general section adminstrtaion, leadership, etc...). There isn't much in the way of development. (again, not much of an NCO corps here)

I thought this was a pretty typical, but I was out on a large multi-unit ex recently, and I found that the MCpls tended to fall more on the Sgts side in other units. They associated with them more (outside of the mess, of course), and seemed to be brought into the 'management' side of things.

I'd just like to know if this is a typical experience for Master Corporals? What are the opinions of MCpls/Snr NCOs here on this site? Is there a huge difference in philosophy between Cbt Arms units and CS/CSS units about the appointment? Are Master Corporals (by and large) seen to be super worker bees, competant in trade as well as possessing leadership skills, or as junior sergeants, capable of management? Does it fall somewhere in between?

Thanks in advance.

:dontpanic:

 

[PiperDown]

There is no easy answer to your question. The short answer would be. It depends on the unit and position you are in.
In some units, the MCpl is a strong leadership position, more of a manager than a worker. (so, using your terms.. they would be a junior Sgt) On the other hand, in some units a MCpl is a worker bee, just like the ptes and cpls. (or sometimes there may not even be cpls and ptes. ) Although, in this case, the Mcpl would be seen as someone who should be capabile of more responsibility and larger work load than the cpls and ptes. (once again, in your terms.. a super corporal)

 

[GO!!!]

Otto,

"It depends" is the answer.

To look at one end of the spectrum, SAR Techs are all MCpls. It is their working rank. So every MCpl there is a worker bee.

In my unit, MCpls usually end up falling more on the leadership and less on the worker side - but we have lots of Ptes. I believe more cbt arms trades are heavy at the low end of the pay scale (pte/cpl), requiring more leadership and management from the MCpls. Most service trades, in my experience seem to be mostly cpls, and longer serving ones at that, so they don't require as much direction from the middle ranks.

The role of the MCpl depends on where and how he is employed, there is no hard and fast answer for all trades.

 

[JBP]

Very interesting thread. In my reserve infantry unit, MCpl's are more often than not Section Commanders since we have an acute lack of Sgt's and MCpl's. Many times Cpl's end up leading Sections on weekend ex's and low-turnout parade nights.

Our unit tries to keep the Cpl's who have had JLC training or at least the first have of it (mods 1-5?) in charge over the Cpl's who just have time in. My platoon Warrant is a Sgt most nights also.

I think it's simply as you folks stated, depends on the trade we're talking about and the unit individually.

 

[Avail]

Sorry for the necro, this one's pretty old, but it seems to be the best thread for this.

How does Acting-Lacking appointment to MCpl work in the P Res? Who is the deciding authority on this / is it a Unit level decision, or does it go higher? I am inquiring about the P Res specifically, but I'm interested in the Reg F side of things as well.

 

[DAA]

Sorry for the necro, this one's pretty old, but it seems to be the best thread for this.

How does Acting-Lacking appointment to MCpl work in the P Res? Who is the deciding authority on this / is it a Unit level decision, or does it go higher? I am inquiring about the P Res specifically, but I'm interested in the Reg F side of things as well.

CFAO 49-5  The promotion authority will probably be at the Brigade Level minimum seeing as the promotion is not to the substantive rank.

 

[BinRat55]

I can't speak to the P Res side of things, however I do know a little about the Reg Force. Firstly, some people tend to confuse Acting-Lacking with WSE. There is a difference - If your CO has a spot (usually an overseas tasking) and careers blesses your posting into said spot "While So Employed" the you become that rank for the duration of the tour / tasking. You take it down after the tasking is complete.

Acting-lacking refers to a soldier not having all the prerequisites to fill the rank or appointment one will be promoted into. In the case of MCpls, a QL5 and PLQ (all mods) are required. Now, in most support trades one can be a MCpl without his / her PLQ, but there is a time limit (without complication) that one has to achieve their necessary qual. I think it's 18 - 24 months (this i'm not sure...) Within the Combat Arms world, I know that a soldier will not usually be promoted until his / her PLQ has been passed. Then, it seemingly becomes necessary to promote to MCpl.

So you may not see much of the "acting-lacking" in the Cbt Arms trades.

The career managers usually do not track PLQs anymore, but if it hinges on a promotion (or vice versa) they usually are all over it!