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Medic and Nurse

KJ:

Every career is what you are able to make of it.  I am sure the DART nurse(s), who also been to KAF and Kabul (of which some have done all 3 in the last 4 years) would tell you that they look forward to a period where they can sit behind a computer for a while.

My point was/is that the actual amount of time that a SAR Tech spends doing actual SAR is probably similar to that of a nurse doing nursing of the course of their career. 
 
"...many of the tasks that are done by nurses in the civilian system are handled by Medics and PA's in the CF system...'
I have to agree that this is certainly what it looks like judging from the info provided by the websites VS what i have seen RN's have to deal with. I wonder if an RN in the CF has a different tempo than one in Civilian Emergency Room. The canadian medical system is somewhat stretched at this point, and every day i hear more stories about hospitals closing beds. I make the assumtion in the CF, if there is a need for staffing, or space, it is found since the CF tends to be somewhat self contained. Again this is just my civilian assumption.

BTW what does PA stand for?
 
PA= Physician's Assistant

In regards to nursing in the CF, you are both right. I have just returned from the Role 3 MMU, KAF. Some of the other RN's I was working for had a wealth of experience by working in Civi hospitals back in Canada and paid for by DND. The CF is more than willing to send an individual on courses to further their careers both Civilian sponsored and CF driven. CFMS is now just rediscovering the usefulness of RN's with this there will be more drive IMHO to get Reg Force RN's to the bedside so that they can continue to care for CF members and other wounded persons in theater.

Others, depending on their positions, had to fight to get any bed side time while back in Canada. Yes, any career is what you make of it. Some Regular Force RN's are quite happy doing more of the administrative and managerial work behind the scenes while others want to be at the bed side.

It is also important to note which specialty trade the individual RN's are. NP, OR, CCNO (ICU), CCNO (ER), GDNO, Psych etc.

Yes there is one member over there right now that has been in the CF for just over 5 years, of that time he has been on DART, Kabul and now KAF tours.

GF
 
Please understand, my little recruiting plug was not meant as a "my trade vs your trade" schoolyard taunt, though it does come across that way in print, I admit. My point was that if someone was considering a career in nursing based on their experience in the civilian healthcare system, that they may be surprised at their potential employment once in uniform. My trade does not have a tremendous amount of patient contacts/year, probably fewer than an ER nurse sees in a shift, my meaning was that the ratio of personnell employed operationally vs the total number of personell in the job was very high, probably more than 2/3.
 
You may find the following interesting. It is about a US Army Reserve soldier living in San Antonio, TX.

Road to nursing degree ran through Middle East

Melissa Fletcher Stoeltje
San Antonio Express-News

If you believe the old chestnut, the better part of success involves just showing up. When it comes to suiting up and getting the job done — even in the face of obstacles — Army Reserve Staff Sgt. James Patterson deserves a gold star. Make that two gold stars.
Patterson recently graduated with a bachelor of science degree in nursing from the School of Nursing at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. That's an accomplishment in itself, but one rendered all the more remarkable by a stark fact: In the long road to earning his degree, Patterson was interrupted not once but twice. To go to war.

In his second deployment, he was tantalizingly close to graduating — one semester shy — before he was taken away from loved ones and his beloved studies to the scorching desert of Iraq for an entire year.

Patterson's story is one of perseverance under trying circumstances, of keeping the faith and grabbing the brass ring even when life presents stumbling block after stumbling block.

The 45-year-old reservist takes a matter-of-fact view of his trial of endurance.

"I just told myself I wasn't going to stop until I reached my goal," he says.

Patterson, a genial man who bears a certain bald-headed resemblance to Bruce Willis — he could be Willis' brother, maybe — sits in the kitchen of his modest North Side home decorated with Spurs memorabilia and American flags. Ciara, the 7-year-old daughter from his second marriage, plays in the living room. On a laptop, he calls forth a photographic slide show of his stint in Gulf War II — the huge spiders, the dust storms, the truck he rode around in that got riddled with bullet holes (he wasn't inside when it was fired on, but still ...).

Twice in talking about his war experiences, he chokes up. A year later, the memories are still fresh, still tender.

Patterson was born in Dexter, Maine, a town of 5,000 where about the only industry was a shoe factory. He tried that out of high school, and also worked at his father's bottle-recycling business. But he found his true calling when he became an emergency medical technician, or EMT, riding with the fire department's ambulance service, pulling people from car wrecks, doing water and ice rescues or handling combine accidents.

But he wanted to learn more and that would take schooling — a luxury his family couldn't afford. So, like so many others, Patterson in 1983 joined the military, as had his father before him as well as his two brothers. In his early 20s he signed up with the National Guard, which sent him for medic training first to Missouri, then to San Antonio, at Fort Sam Houston.

"I joined the military for school," he says simply.

After that training he returned to Dexter, where for three years he helped build roads and other projects for the Army's 262nd Engineer Battalion one weekend a month, while still working for the ambulance service. But the siren call of school kept sounding in his ear.

"I had a passion for what I was doing, but I wanted more training," he recalls. "That was always my striving. I just wanted to help people as best I could no matter what situation I was in." Watching episodes of the TV show "M*A*S*H" also inspired him, he says.

So it was back to San Antonio in 1986 to undergo a yearlong training at Fort Sam Houston to become a licensed vocational nurse, or LVN, one step removed from a registered nurse. After his program ended, he and his wife at the time, who had traveled with him from Maine, decided to stay in the Alamo City.

"It didn't snow here," he explains succinctly.

Patterson got a job working as an LVN at the downtown Baptist Medical Center, working in the emergency department. But the lure of higher education continued, so he began taking the prerequisite courses at St. Philip's College to prepare for nursing school. He joined a local Guard unit, the 217th Evacuation Hospital. Things were thrumming along.

Then, in 1990, his unit was activated to serve in Desert Storm. He was forced to put his studies on hold and decamp to Saudi Arabia, where he served as platoon sergeant, overseeing 60 soldiers, all of whom were medics and LVNs. It was a scary time.

"We got SCUD-attacked every night," he remembers. "As soon as the SCUDs left the pad sites, we would scramble and put on our whole (chemical) suits, because you never knew what the rockets were holding." Only later would the military discover there were no chemicals in those bombs.

His deployment only lasted three months, but after his return his first marriage crumbled, cratered by all his studying and working and his time away from home in the service. Undeterred, Patterson resumed work on his prerequisites and continued working at the Baptist, where he met his current wife, Maria, at the time a phlebotomist who would also go on to become an LVN.

To increase his rank and knowledge, Patterson, by now in his mid-30s, switched to an Army Reserve unit, the Practical Nurse Detachment, which is part of the 95th Division, made up wholly of instructors. He was now in charge of teaching other LVNs. But Patterson knew he could only apply to become an officer — his goal is captain — if he held a bachelor's degree.

So in 2003, he applied for and was accepted into the nursing program at the health science center, in something called the Flexible Process program. It's designed for those who have been LVNs for at least a year and have done 62 hours of prerequisite coursework — a fast-track program but a very challenging one. It's supposed to only take 18 months.

Patterson was one year into the program when, at the end of 2004, his unit was activated for Operation Iraqi Freedom. He decamped again, this time for a medical training base that was a 21/2 hour drive north of Baghdad near the Iranian border. The only way in and out was by helicopter, since the roads were studded with improvised explosive devices, or IEDs. On this stint, Patterson and his small unit were tasked with teaching the Army medic course to Iraqi soldiers, using interpreters, bilingual slides and scarce supplies.

This stint was even scarier than the last.

"Our base wasn't closed, so a sniper could come in at any time," he says. "We were on alert all the time."

He talks of friends being injured, shot. The tears flow and he has to stop for a minute.

He came home on a vacation in May 2005 and attended the graduation ceremony of the class he was supposed to matriculate with — a disconcerting feeling, he says. But after returning home for good in December 2005, Patterson knocked out his four remaining classes that spring, summer and the following fall.

"It felt like 100 pounds taken off my head," he says of going through his own graduation ceremony. "A chapter has finally closed in my life." No, he says, he never thought of giving up. And with that ceremony, Patterson joined a small but growing cadre: Today, male nurses make up 8 percent of America's registered nurses.

Maria, who has a 20-year-old daughter and a 15-year-old son from an earlier marriage, says she never doubted her husband would follow through on his dreams.

"It was very tough, having all our lives interrupted by Iraq, all the ups and downs," she says. "But to see him finally get his degree was very special." An insurance specialist, she now plans to go on and earn her nursing degree.

"I tell him, now you're done with yours, it's time for me to do mine," she says.

Dr. Linda Porter-Wenzlaff, director of the Flexible Process program, says she marveled at Patterson's ability to take up where he left off when his studies were disrupted.

"All students in the Flex program usually come with a varied and circuitous background," she says. "I always tell them that tenacity is how you get through it — getting up everyday and deciding you're just going to do it. And James has certainly had to do that more than any student I've seen in a long time."

Today, Patterson is an LVN at Brooke Army Medical Center, on the ICU step-down unit — for stabilized ICU patients — where he's worked since 2000. He will take his registered-nurse state boards soon, and is applying for commissioned-officer status. If he gets accepted, it will mean officer training school — a next step that would keep him stateside, at least for a while.

But Patterson knows there's always a chance he could be deployed again, especially with all the talk of a "surge" in Iraq. If he becomes an officer, that means he gives 10 more years of his life to the reserves.

"I'm going if I have to go," he says. "Because while I joined the military for school, I'm also a soldier. I may not like it, it may be inconvenient, but it's my duty."

mstoeltje@express-news.net 
 
At this time i am leaning towards Medical Technician just because of the above. Nursing program takes 4 years, and depending on how much the CF sponsors, it could mean a longer contract or more personal debt. I like the fact that the Regular CFs train to canadian paramedic standards, and provides the training. At this point i cant pay / student loan the 40,000$ of debt required. been there done that in my last career, and am having a hard time stomaching the idea of being in debt again (finally paid off).

Did anyone reading this have their CPC(?) Paramedic Certification Lvl 1 (civilian) prior to joining the CF? and how do you think it affected the recruiting process? Did you still have to take the same paramedic training over again at JI? or were you exempt from some of the course?
 
LS,

A PCP certification could be a good introduction to the medical world.  A nice way to get your feet wet so to speak without the risk of a 4 year BN just to find out that is not your gig.  Secondly, as a PCP you could work on the side if you decided to get into nursing.  I know you expressed concern over the cost and this could be a way to reduce expenses.

As for prehospital training I had that (an my nursing) but I still got slated on my QL3 Med-A and I couldn't get my QL4 written off.  It is my understanding that this might have changed now.  Either way I can't see how it would hurt you application. 

A secondary benefit of having your foot in the civilian world, so to speak, is patient contact as this is very limited in the CFMS.  I know things are a bit different now due to current operations but none the less no matter how you look at working on the civi side will win out in the end.

 
Herseyjh,
That path seem to be the optimal at this point. Thanks for the input.
 
an even better way to get your 'feet wet' as it wer LC, is to take your EMR. In BC, EMR is the most basic level you may have to work on car. It is also a requirement prior to taking your PCP here in BC. Good luck on your decision. The PRes is also now contemplating paying for PCP training. However, you will serve 3 years after the course. One year in the box, one year back at the base teaching the next group of ppl going over to the box, and the last year attach posted back to your old unit to teach them what they'll expect in the Box.
 
Good point with the EMR.  Industrial standby by is an other option as an EMR.  Not the most stimulating but it gets the bills paid and sometimes that is all you need.  An ambulance job as an EMR would be the best as you could use it to pay for your PCP.  That is how I started, but my job was in northern Alberta.

I think EMR ambulance jobs are getting harder and harder to find and will depend very much on where you are from and how willing you are to drive into the middle of nowhere.

Good luck.
 
yupperz... here in BC, you're looking at RURAL and that's rural with ALL capitals for an EMR position. But it's still very awesome to be able to get a gig like that.
 
Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg will be provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.  the reserves can now only employ PCP and RN trained pers, no longer can they join with nothing, the REGF does however take you with nothing and will train.
 
flaps_at_10 said:
Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg will be provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.  the reserves can now only employ PCP and RN trained pers, no longer can they join with nothing, the REGF does however take you with nothing and will train.

Wow.  Really?  I am not a Medical person, but was wondering the reasoning?  Are the Reserve courses suffering that big of a delta with the Reg Frce ones?  Or is it a "quantity to quality" issue, that CFHS is finding that Reserve Med Techs, NO's and MO's are suffering too much skill fade to keep current?

Again, I am just curious, that seems to be a huge shift from what I know/have seen in 17 years with the Reserves.
 
I got the general impression from discussions on this board that Medical Technicians tend to be reg while Medical Assistants are the Resv. version of the same trade. I was chatting with a friend in the reserves here in BC and he stated that things have changed because of the fires we had a few years ago. He said that the medics were not allowed to help because they were not pcp cert. and the reserves seem to want to have that capabiliy. *shrug*. I know nothing about anything, so take what i was told for what its worth.
 
flaps_at_10 said:
Just a little UFI, as of 2009 the med tech trg will be provided from Ontario courses, following Ontario curriculuim.  the reserves can now only employ PCP and RN trained pers, no longer can they join with nothing, the REGF does however take you with nothing and will train.

The source of your UFI is? Document, announcement, hearsay, crystal ball?
 
huh... I think I'd hear about the reserve trg and acceptance being changed... that's interesting...
 
The source of my UFI comes from the RX2000 reserve team.  True reserve medics and reg f med techs have a large gap.  to be deployable a reservist must be a PCP or higher.  In some provinces this is easy to get (alberta and Quebec) but for example in Ontario it takes 2 years and our paramedics bring in over 70G's with over time and have no interest in the reserves for the most part.  they have changed the recruiting standard for the reserves and if you don't believe me, call your local reserve med unit.  they also have a gap course for reserves which brings them to a clinical QL3, non deployable but can work in an MIR in Canada.

there is a lot of emphasis being placed on the medical PRL, which takes traine dPCP, nurses and docs. gives them unlimited jammy tasking and can deploy them in months and then bring them back to do nothing if they wish.

As for the REGF, the contract with the JI runs out soon and the powers to be are looking at the Ontario PCP program as the way ahead. is it....only time will tell?
 
Flaps, you realize you're talking to a Rctng O for a HS Res unit, right?

and I taught him everything he knows    ;D

What you're saying is similar, but not exactly the same as current policy; there are non-PCP or HCP reserve positions, they're just not everywhere.  (and, FWIW, this policy will result in the death of the HS Res, not some magic cabinet of Health Care Professionals the CF can just open when they want.)

As to the PRL, they've done a piss-poor job of Public Relations, and their left and right hands don't seem to know what the other is doing.  Are they hiring PCPs?  One week yes, one week no.  Check the website?  That's a laugh.  "Unlimited jammy taskings?" or how about "the courses have been cancelled,  but you're ok with 3 weeks of unpaid leave from your hospital, right?  We'll try again next month.  What do you mean you're not available?"

From conversations with some of the the JIBC management team today:  The PCP RFP has gone out, the JI has been extended to the end of the year (calendar or fiscal, I didn't ask).  The RFP has a geographic limit of within 100km of Borden, with precepting happening within 200km of Borden (which precludes it from staying here in BC).  Increased control and contact with the candidates was cited as the reasons for the change, but that did come from the JI staff, so take it for what it's worth. 

Enjoying my unpaid 3 week leave of absence....

DF
 
I do thing the PRL is a viable option for the medical branch.

For me personally it is a way that I can combine my civilian and military life.  The CF gets a trained medical provider at no cost really, and I get the satisfaction of being able to deploy in a medical capacity.  Something that I never got from the reserve medical branch.

PMT, I also agree with you statement that the PRL does need some work in the PR and HR department.  I am pushing a year and a half for my recruiting process and as it stands now things look good that I might be ready for my summer basic officer training.  If not the word is that everything should be ready for next summer and I can be course loaded then!  Can you imagine if that is the case? I am crossing my fingers that my CFAT scores can be found, if not I am sure that will be an other 3 months.  I am going to stick with it but I wonder how many applicants the CF will loose because of this.

So what are you going to do with your 3 weeks off?!

JH
 
Oh, don't get me wrong. I think if we remain on course ( my own opinion) there will be no medical reserve( or one as w eknow it) within 3 -5 years.  the PRL is sloppy and yes they take forever, not to defend but they have no clerks but some very keen reserve med techs trying to be clerks.  the work very hard and have the right intentions for the PRL.  I have been a reserve med tech for almost 14 years and have seen many changes. some good, some bad and lots stupid.  I am not high enough on the food chain to give exact answers on this but only my speculations a reservist who is also a CSM of a reserve unit. 

I like the concept of the PRL, but I am sad that we are apperently washing our hands from the unskilled keen high school student who wants summer employment and a skill. I have seen taskings decrease and decrease and regulations creep up ( need QL5A equivalenices ect)  I see that our unit may only get 3-5 QL3 spots this summer, well I have a PAT PL of 15...tell them that, I know some of you have been hanging around for 2 years but I still can't send you on course.....

I see the GAP as a priorirty. you know what is funny.  Our office has purchased AED's for the reserve Military police, but I still am waiting for them from the HQ for the reserve medicla units?

I technically train my fire fighters to a higher level than we train our reserve med techs?  AMFR2 is a great course but not PAC approved as of yet, although it meets all the guidelines.  why has no one fought to get this done, why are we not looking at giving them the Red Cross EMR qualification that we give the Fire Fighters.

I work in an ICU an dI talk to several nurses that want to join, sadly I even talked a gas pusher to go regf, well themoney really helped her decide and they can'y get in fast enough.  Not that i am protecting the PRL, but the recruitin system is flawed, i am 2 years into a CT/OT and still have no answer?????

 
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