Meet the GM Defense ISV Army Truck

[SeaKingTacco]

I loved the 5/4. It was a decent truck for what it was intended to do.

The cargo version with the bench seat in the front made for the best snoozing spot in NATO…

 

[Furniture]

I suspect a lot of the COTS isn't good enough sentiment comes from a place of Western privilege. We haven't really had to fight a war in a long time, so we expect our army cars to be perfect, rather than "good enough".

I also suspect a lot of the 5/4 ton love is coming from a view tinted by rose coloured glasses... There was nothing particularly magical about trucks in the 80s that made them better than trucks today. In fact, trucks today are far more capable, and reliable than what was made before.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I suspect a lot of the COTS isn't good enough sentiment comes from a place of Western privilege. We haven't really had to fight a war in a long time, so we expect our army cars to be perfect, rather than "good enough".

I also suspect a lot of the 5/4 ton love is coming from a view tinted by rose coloured glasses... There was nothing particularly magical about trucks in the 80s that made them better than trucks today. In fact, trucks today are far more capable, and reliable than what was made before.

Yes and No. Generally the older vehicles were made of heavier gauge steel, so you had some more strength in them. Solid beam axles generally are sturdier and simpler, than independent suspension. There was a lot less electronics on board and not everything was routed through an ecm and dependent on each other. The ability to jumpstart yourself was nice, as was the slave cable plug. Newer engines can be a mixed bag, some are excellent and some are garbage.

 

[KevinB]

Yes and No. Generally the older vehicles were made of heavier gauge steel, so you had some more strength in them. Solid beam axles generally are sturdier and simpler, than independent suspension. There was a lot less electronics on board and not everything was routed through an ecm and dependent on each other. The ability to jumpstart yourself was nice, as was the slave cable plug. Newer engines can be a mixed bag, some are excellent and some are garbage.

I disagree on Solid Axels. I pointed out before the Hummer was a 4 wheel independent suspension, and it is a beast.

@Furniture the fact the 5/4 was a better vehicle than the ones that came after it for the role speaks volumes.

The Iltis, LSVW were examples of some utterly ridiculous requirements and/or legitimate requirements being ignored.
The GWagon was just a knee jerk reaction to the unfortunate events in Afghanistan.

@WLSC a buddy of mine has one of those ‘jeeps’ , he dropped an old 1942 body on it, it is super neat. I’d prefer the GMVW1.1 though for actually using operationally.

 

[OldSolduer]

The Iltis, LSVW were examples of some utterly ridiculous requirements and/or legitimate requirements being ignored.

The LSVW also failed trials but somehow got through and was bought. Apparently someone from the CAF got a job with the manufacturer after it was adopted.
LSVW = Loud Squeaky Vehicle Wheeled. Absolutely a terrible vehicle.

 

[Spencer100]

The LSVW also failed trials but somehow got through and was bought. Apparently someone from the CAF got a job with the manufacturer after it was adopted.
LSVW = Loud Squeaky Vehicle Wheeled. Absolutely a terrible vehicle.

So you saying you don't like Italian. Assembled by left coasters!

Plus the CAF can blend in with the PLA

Nanjing NJ2046

 

[KevinB]

The LSVW also failed trials but somehow got through and was bought. Apparently someone from the CAF got a job with the manufacturer after it was adopted.
LSVW = Loud Squeaky Vehicle Wheeled. Absolutely a terrible vehicle.

Government directed. The CAF was powerless.
IIRC Western Star was in Kim Campbell’s riding…

It failed the road test three times.
Two off road tests then a strict track driving test. Bent frames even on the track…
A buddy of mine was involved in the test.

Every other nation got the Iltis with the 6 cylinder engine. Which added a bunch of weight lower on the body and made it significantly less tippy and actually a decent drive.

 

[WLSC]

I disagree on Solid Axels. I pointed out before the Hummer was a 4 wheel independent suspension, and it is a beast.

@Furniture the fact the 5/4 was a better vehicle than the ones that came after it for the role speaks volumes.

The Iltis, LSVW were examples of some utterly ridiculous requirements and/or legitimate requirements being ignored.
The GWagon was just a knee jerk reaction to the unfortunate events in Afghanistan.

@WLSC a buddy of mine has one of those ‘jeeps’ , he dropped an old 1942 body on it, it is super neat. I’d prefer the GMVW1.1 though for actually using operationally.

THE great debate between IFS and SFA Take the Hummer out of the deal because it's a bionic IFS on steroid that not a lot of armies can afford. I stand with @Colin Parkinson.

Those J8 are the proof that a COTS LUV can be acheived. It's not about rock crawling, it's about the most simple, rugged system.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well when you spend $220,000 per vehicle in 2011 dollars it better be than a 5/4 ton.

Interesting wiki page Commercial Utility Cargo Vehicle - Wikipedia

 

[Dana381]

Independent suspension whether front or rear has so much better articulation that a solid axle should only be considered if you are never going off road.
Durability of Independent suspension is a direct factor of design. Automobiles are designed for the expected use they will receive. 99% never see off road and 50% likely never see snow. Manufacturers make them to last until the warranty expires on road.
Independent suspension works just fine for the leopard tank, the LAV and many other heavy vehicles because it's designed for it. Military trucks of all sizes can be designed and built with Independent suspension for not much more than a solid axle with a link suspension and coil springs, leaf springs are really bad at articulation and therefore traction.
Building a truck for the army with leaf springs would be like designing a new muzzle loader for the army to take to battle.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Building a truck for the army with leaf springs would be like designing a new muzzle loader for the army to take to battle.

 

[Spencer100]

You asked

 

[RangerRay]

Government directed. The CAF was powerless.
IIRC Western Star was in Kim Campbell’s riding…

It failed the road test three times.
Two off road tests then a strict track driving test. Bent frames even on the track…
A buddy of mine was involved in the test.

Every other nation got the Iltis with the 6 cylinder engine. Which added a bunch of weight lower on the body and made it significantly less tippy and actually a decent drive.

Her riding was in Vancouver. Western Star’s factory was in Kelowna. But I do think it was a pork barrel project regardless. The MP for Kelowna was probably a Tory.

 

[KevinB]

THE great debate between IFS and SFA Take the Hummer out of the deal because it's a bionic IFS on steroid that not a lot of armies can afford. I stand with @Colin Parkinson.

Those J8 are the proof that a COTS LUV can be acheived. It's not about rock crawling, it's about the most simple, rugged system.

You know the Hummer was a cheaper choice than the LSVW…
Even more so if you added the Validation Trial(s) (as it wasn’t a competition) costs.

 

[WLSC]

You know the Hummer was a cheaper choice than the LSVW…
Even more so if you added the Validation Trial(s) (as it wasn’t a competition) costs.

Nop, didn’t know and I’m not surprised.

The cost I was talking about was more on running the beast. The Hummer is to the LUV what the M1 is to tank, they are not cheap on gas.

 

[Dana381]

You know the Hummer was a cheaper choice than the LSVW…
Even more so if you added the Validation Trial(s) (as it wasn’t a competition) costs.

As good as the hummer is i question it's reliability. I drove truck long haul from 2000 - 2003 and every singal US military convoy I came across had at least one, but often more hummers on the side of the road with the hood up.

I would see convoys at least a couple times a month.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The Humvee was burdened with perhaps the worst diesel engine made in North America, the 6.2. I looked at putting one these in my Range Rover, the fuel mileage and the lifespan were terrible. Had they used the 7.3L , the truck would have been far more reliable.

 

[Dana381]

The Humvee was burdened with perhaps the worst diesel engine made in North America, the 6.2. I looked at putting one these in my Range Rover, the fuel mileage and the lifespan were terrible. Had they used the 7.3L , the truck would have been far more reliable.

I think most were also the non-turbo version and underpowered.

7.3L was international/ford. GM would never use it. They would be more likely to use the 3126/C7 cat as they put that in their 6500/7500 trucks.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

As good as the hummer is i question it's reliability. I drove truck long haul from 2000 - 2003 and every singal US military convoy I came across had at least one, but often more hummers on the side of the road with the hood up.

I would see convoys at least a couple times a month.

First time I saw a Hummer (civvie version) I looked underneath and it was totally flat, which I figured would not be good if you ran over a IED/mine.

My 2 cents.

 

[KevinB]

First time I saw a Hummer (civvie version) I looked underneath and it was totally flat, which I figured would not be good if you ran over a IED/mine.

My 2 cents.

Like 99.99% of the other vehicles of its day.

Some units made V hull armor packages for them - but non of the Up Armor Hummers did well due to the additional weight.

Ideally you design a vehicle with the armor package from the ground up.
So everything is design to take the load, and the protection is optimized for the weight.