Mess Kits

[murrdawg]

To access the DIN, I need a DWAN computer right?

 

[Nfld Sapper]

To access the DIN, I need a DWAN computer right?

:nod:

 

[rifleman]

There doesn't need to be such an attack on the guy, there are people with decades of service that don't know the dress regs. For instance a black tie is the only authorized tie. Look at the descriptions in annex E for air force mess kit. Being air force you can wear the tartan or branch approved cummerbund.

Even the shirt can be constrained to flat front, not pleated depending on your regiment.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

There doesn't need to be such an attack on the guy, there are people with decades of service that don't know the dress regs. For instance a black tie is the only authorized tie. Look at the descriptions in annex E for air force mess kit. Being air force you can wear the tartan or branch approved cummerbund.

Even the shirt can be constrained to flat front, not pleated depending on your regiment.

Hence the reason I told him to check with his Adjt or Chief

 

[RubberTree]

5. Metal clips or full wrap around bowtie?

Proper officers hand tie their bowties

A word of caution to all following this advice...I've looked in all the "regular" suit shops (tiptop, moores...) and have had no luck finding a non clip on bowtie. I am sure they are available, but not on a "day before the mess dinner night" type of thing. If you are going to do it right and find a silk hand tie bowtie, start looking early and spare yourself the tank of gas driving around an entire city.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

A word of caution to all following this advice...I've looked in all the "regular" suit shops (tiptop, moores...) and have had no luck finding a non clip on bowtie. I am sure they are available, but not on a "day before the mess dinner night" type of thing. If you are going to do it right and find a silk hand tie bowtie, start looking early and spare yourself the tank of gas driving around an entire city.

You'll also not want to try learning how to tie it an hour before cocktails.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

;D

 

[Nfld Sapper]

A word of caution to all following this advice...I've looked in all the "regular" suit shops (tiptop, moores...) and have had no luck finding a non clip on bowtie. I am sure they are available, but not on a "day before the mess dinner night" type of thing. If you are going to do it right and find a silk hand tie bowtie, start looking early and spare yourself the tank of gas driving around an entire city.

I'ved used this type of bow tie when I have to wear mess kit......and it is found in most suit shops.....

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Oh, the instructions seem simple enough, but go ahead and try it

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Oh, the instructions seem simple enough, but go ahead and try it

Oh I know recce.... hence why I go with the second one 

 

[murrdawg]

So I went into the RMC Canex today and got all my answers, every single one. I'll post them here so if someone in a similar situation that I was in can read this.

For General Air Force

- Tartan cummerbun
- Wrap around bowtie that adjusts
- White shirt with black studs and has small pleats
- Suspenders
- Air force pins to replace the studs and cufflinks

As I was told, sometimes the pins and cufflinks vary depending on the unit you go to, but for the basic mess kit, there are element pins.

Also, depending on the unit, they may have their own tartan cummerbun..... But the tartan cummerbun is the basic basic standard.

Thanks to everyone who helped out!

 

[Pusser]

You'll also not want to try learning how to tie it an hour before cocktails.

Actually, I would argue that an hour AFTER cocktails is not the best time to learn to tie a bowtie!

It's worth noting though that a bowtie is the same knot that you use to tie your shoes.  Perhaps that's why some folks' ties are velcroed!

 

[Sig_Des]

So I went into the RMC Canex today and got all my answers, every single one. I'll post them here so if someone in a similar situation that I was in can read this.

For General Air Force

- Tartan cummerbun
- Wrap around bowtie that adjusts
- White shirt with black studs and has small pleats
- Suspenders
- Air force pins to replace the studs and cufflinks

As I was told, sometimes the pins and cufflinks vary depending on the unit you go to, but for the basic mess kit, there are element pins.

Also, depending on the unit, they may have their own tartan cummerbun..... But the tartan cummerbun is the basic basic standard.

WRT cummerbund, from the C&E Branch Dress instruction:

BRANCH CUMMERBUND

5.17 The midnight blue cummerbund using the Branch sealed colour will be worn with the midnight blue mess kit by all Air Force personnel regardless of ranks.  The black silk cummerbund will be worn by all ranks with the navy and army white mess dress except as detailed below. The cummerbund is available at personal expense through the C&E Museum Mercury kit shop. Cummerbund shall be worn with the pleated opening facing upwards.

 

[Neill McKay]

A little bit of advice that will help you when you go shopping:

- White shirt with black studs and has small pleats

Spend the money to get one made of 100% cotton, not a cotton/poly blend.  Or, if you must get a blend, get one with as little polyester as you can.  There is a real and noticeable difference in comfort.  (A 100% polyester shirt is kind of like dressing in Saran Wrap.)

- Air force pins to replace the studs

When you go to the kit shop or wherever, what you're looking for are shirt studs.  They probably come in a set of four or so.  If they're not too expensive, consider buying two sets so you'll be able to carry a spare.  Depending on how well they're made they can sometimes break, and of course such breakage will only be discovered at the last minute...

You can wear plain gold ones or ones with an approved branch or regimental pattern.  Unless you're in the Air Operations Branch, the ones you're probably picturing when you say "air force" are probably not correct for your branch.

Plain ones have the advantage of never turning upside down, as ones with a badge or crest can do.

 

[Old_navy_062]

You'll also not want to try learning how to tie it an hour before cocktails.

There is a great video on U Tube to teach tying a bow tie.  I do a quick review before a mess dinner.

 

[SeanNewman]

Proper officers hand tie their bowties

I'm not sure if this was written tongue-in-cheek or not, but it was likely written at a time when "proper officers" bought their commissions, too.

 

[Pusser]

Yes, tongue was firmly in cheek when I wrote that.  However, the RCN Steward's Manual (still an excellent reference on naval mess etiquette) does make this same point by stating that officers do not wear ready-made bowties.  I will concede though that it is increasingly difficult to find proper bowties.  The one I bought at Eaton's 25 years ago is starting to get a little worn.  I have seen them on eBay though.

As for buying commissions, only the Army practiced that.  Commissions in the Navy have always been earned.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I'm not sure if this was written tongue-in-cheek or not, but it was likely written at a time when "proper officers" bought their commissions, too.

Makes perfect sense. Would you want to be led by someone that can't even tie a bowtie?


You can by one at most places you rent tuxes.

 

[SeanNewman]

Makes perfect sense. Would you want to be led by someone that can't even tie a bowtie?

While I can't speak for everyone, I think I would be more inspired by a leader who shared in the hardships, led from the front on IED'd roads, and trusted his subordinates than someone who rocked the casba at mess functions.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

While I can't speak for everyone, I think I would be more inspired by a leader who shared in the hardships, led from the front on IED'd roads, and trusted his subordinates than someone who rocked the casba at mess functions.

I would prefer a person who practices to perfection in all endeavors, not just a few.

However, I'm dropping this, as I refuse to get involved in your circular verbal attempts at shanghaiing people into conversation while you fulfil some Freudian need to suckle and bond.

HAGO