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Mess Uniform use by Retired Members

alegal2012

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I am a retired Reg Force member and would like to acquire and wear the Army mess uniform at my son's wedding next September.  Are there any regualtions prohibiting this?

Thank you in advance,

Alan Legal, WO ret'd
[email protected]
 
Current regulations regarding the wear of uniforms by retired personnel emanate from Queen’s Regulations and Orders (QR&O), in particular QR&O 17.06 which states: A former member of the Regular Force or Reserve Force, who was released for a reason other than misconduct, may wear a uniform:

(a)  with the permission of an officer commanding a command or his designated authority and such other officers as may be designated by the Chief of Defence Staff, when attending a military entertainment or ceremony at which the wearing of uniform is appropriate; and


(b) on other occasions with the permission of the Chief of the Defence Staff.

These instructions are expanded upon in the 'Canadian Forces Dress Instructions Manual(AAD-265-000-AG-001)', which states: Commanders of commands may grant limited, revocable authority for former members and civilians to wear CF uniforms and clothing items in public displays and performances, and special events, if they are satisfied that no harm to the CF reputation will result.  In particular: by custom, veterans and other ex-service members may wear undress caps (e.g., berets, wedge caps), with badges, on remembrance and memorial occasions, subject to agreement of the branch/regiment concerned. 



Furthermore, all depending how long ago you have retired, you should have received a copy of the handbook entitled "Moving On" and paragraph 14.2 states all of the above.


The more common (and recommended) practice is for former CF personnel to wear proudly their medals, with appropriate civilian attire in accordance with the Governor General aide memoire entitled Wearing of orders, decorations and medals with undress cap (if appropriate).

Source: http://www.cmp-cpm.forces.gc.ca/dhh-dhp/faq/index-eng.asp?cat=dress&FaqID=116#ans-rep
 
I have seen numerous instances where retired pers wear their Mess Kit to functions.
No one, so far, has seemed worried about it.

If bought new, they paid in excess of $1000 for the outfit. It belongs to them, not to the military.

In reality, it's just a military cut tuxedo.

As long as they are not trying to imitate a serving member, who cares.
 
Every year at one of our functions, past members show up in thier mess kit, minus any rank.  I plan to do the same.

Cheers
Pop
 
Popurhedoff said:
Every year at one of our functions, past members show up in thier mess kit, minus any rank.  I plan to do the same.

Cheers
Pop

It still is a Chick Magnet.
 
Unsubstantiated opinion only.....

As noted, it is a very sharp-looking and distinctive outfit.  Would wearing it detract from the attention on the bride (it's 'her day' after all) and your son?
As for the actual regulations.....  :dunno:


I'd never heard of retired members wearing it minus the rank.  Interesting variation.
 
alegal2012 said:
I am a retired Reg Force member and would like to acquire and wear the Army mess uniform at my son's wedding next September.  Are there any regualtions prohibiting this?

Thank you in advance,

Alan Legal, WO ret'd
[email protected]

Just and FYI.  Generally DEUs are worn for the ceremony and the mess kit for the reception.  At least, that has been the case for the many military weddings I've attended. I know some will wear mess kits to the ceremony but it's not the norm.  May have to do with not wanting to upstage the bride.
 
Strike said:
Just and FYI.  Generally DEUs are worn for the ceremony and the mess kit for the reception.  At least, that has been the case for the many military weddings I've attended. I know some will wear mess kits to the ceremony but it's not the norm.  May have to do with not wanting to upstage the bride.

Depends on the Mess Kit.  There are many instances of members wearing "Patrol Dress" ( which some units use as Mess Kit )  in the Wedding Party.
 
Mess Kit is, traditionally, worn only after 18:00.

There is a distinction between 'Mess Kit' and 'Patrol Dress', even if Patrols are the authorized dress for a dinner.
 
recceguy said:
Mess Kit is, traditionally, worn only after 18:00.

There is a distinction between 'Mess Kit' and 'Patrol Dress', even if Patrols are the authorized dress for a dinner.

( which some units use as Mess Kit )

Although I really don't think that is truly proper, but they seem to have adopted it as such.
 
George Wallace said:
( which some units use as Mess Kit )

Being from a Unit that wears both, Patrols MAY be authorized for a dinner (they are not at our Unit). That does not make it 'Mess Kit'.

Mess Kit is formal wear and is defined by the Dress Regs.

Patrols are classed as 'Walking Out Dress'.

That is the distinction.
 
recceguy said:
Being from a Unit that wears both, Patrols MAY be authorized for a dinner (they are not at our Unit). That does not make it 'Mess Kit'.

Mess Kit is formal wear and is defined by the Dress Regs.

Patrols are classed as 'Walking Out Dress'.

That is the distinction.

I agree. 

 
Journeyman said:
Unsubstantiated opinion only.....

As noted, it is a very sharp-looking and distinctive outfit.  Would wearing it detract from the attention on the bride (it's 'her day' after all) and your son?
As for the actual regulations.....  :dunno:


I'd never heard of retired members wearing it minus the rank.  Interesting variation.

Mess Dress is a tricky topic.  One one hand, it remains a uniform and its wearing with rank should remain authorized in accordance with regulations.  On the other hand, its donning without rank leaves its wearer susceptible to drink orders.

Notwithstanding, the retired member is no longer subject to dress regulations and there is little worry of mess dress misrepresenting his status.  It's just a fancy drinking suit.
 
I had a conversation not two weeks ago with a Navy type that had the same concern about wearing his Mess Uniform in retirement. His suggestion, which I like, was to have a gold embroidered letter 'R' on the appropriate backing sew on the sleeve just below the rank. That would denote to others, the member is retired at that rank.

The officers can figure their own system out ;D
 
recceguy said:
.....have a gold embroidered letter 'R' on the appropriate backing sew on the sleeve....
Sure, that scarlet 'A' isn't shaming enough.....    ;D
 
Rheostatic said:
Worse still, when they assume "R" means Reserve...
:)

As was the case (from the 1950s until 2007) in the Royal Navy when officers of the RNR wore an "R" in the curl to designate their status.  The practise supposedly continues for "honouraries".
 
alegal2012 said:
I am a retired Reg Force member and would like to acquire and wear the Army mess uniform at my son's wedding next September.  Are there any regualtions prohibiting this?

Thank you in advance,

Alan Legal, WO ret'd
[email protected]

Why not wear a tux? When you get into trouble in the bars afterwards you have a higher deniability factor than if you're in uniform!  ;D
 
daftandbarmy said:
Why not wear a tux? When you get into trouble in the bars afterwards you have a higher deniability factor than if you're in uniform!  ;D

You could always claim you're with MI-6...
 
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