Messed up rapper.
- Thread starter EngineerWannabe
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George Wallace said:
He should be held accountable for his speech. Like all cockroaches he has scurried away when the light has been shone on him. We should not let such as these take comfort in knowing that they can toil away in the darkness and we won't do anything about it. It doesn't matter who he's claiming to hate.
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George Wallace said:
I haven't been able to find the video, and even if I could, streaming video where I am currently is basically impossible. If the lyrics quoted in the National Post write up are the most extreme of the whole thing, which I would expect to be the case given the nature/bent of the story, then I don't even find them particularly offensive. There's a vid of it performed live but I can't stream it and if I could, my French isn't good enough to really get it all anyhow I'm sure.
From my understanding, it mentions no organization, no religious bent, no nothing of the sort. So in terms of the lyrics, he's making no statements advocating killing anyone. And again, from the excerpted lyrics, the media is failing dearly to make a case to me that it's "promoting" or "glorifying" anything. All it's shown me is he has (as he said himself) attempted to present the opposite view point (the one we used to revere in the context of Afghanistan when it was aimed at the 40th Army), to advance an anti-war argument. If someone has the complete lyrics I'd be interested to see them. The video seems a fair bit more controversial, and while it disturbs me, it still falls under Section 2(b), which trumps my right to not be offended, every single time.
As far as promoting Canadian artists and cultural activities which seems to be what both NP & Sun Media want to have a go at, I support programs like that. They're a relatively small budget expenditure, and help make sure we don't import everything, for lack of a better way to put it. Without programs like FACTOR/VideoFACT for example, a whole lot of Canadian musicians who've gone on to be greatly successful would have a very hard time getting their feet in the door. Tarring them all with the brush aimed at this guy isn't reasonable.
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So. Some of Manu Militari's lyrics to his song "L'Attente" go:
"I get my shovel out.
I hurry to dig a hole to put my fertilizer bomb.
Since there is no metal in it,
The Trap is undetectiable.
I just need to cover my tracks before takeing to the hills.
Death is so close,
I start reciting the Chahada.
The enemy approaches I recognize Canada's colours like hundres of countries.
Adrenaline rushes through my body.
In a few seconds they'll understand how much I hate them."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iteHS4rJh8
It is getting a lot of airplay on the French Much Music.
"I get my shovel out.
I hurry to dig a hole to put my fertilizer bomb.
Since there is no metal in it,
The Trap is undetectiable.
I just need to cover my tracks before takeing to the hills.
Death is so close,
I start reciting the Chahada.
The enemy approaches I recognize Canada's colours like hundres of countries.
Adrenaline rushes through my body.
In a few seconds they'll understand how much I hate them."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iteHS4rJh8
It is getting a lot of airplay on the French Much Music.
It took some looking to find it, but this link includes a rough translation. I originally saw it on National Newswatch and went into its blog archives.
http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2012/06/prime-ministers-office-condemns-rap-video/
http://www.stephentaylor.ca/2012/06/prime-ministers-office-condemns-rap-video/
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Yes.
"They walk amongst us."
"They walk amongst us."
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Context is all. A French acquaintance and I were discussing it. The song in totality is a narrative. A guy coerced into growing opium whose kid is killed during military operations, who gets caught up in the corruption, who is horribly impacted by a war he had no part in starting but is ultimately drawn into fighting. Then "story" in the narrative is the Manu's impression of the perspective of a civilian caught up in a war he had nothing to do with, and how it changes him. That's the message (against war) that he's trying to convey, and he chose a hard hitting way to do it, which is pretty bold.
I don't think he's "one who walks amongst us". He's a not a Muslim, and his song's story probably shocks me more for the fact that it has a grain of truth to it more than anything else - that ordinary people can be pushed to extremes by simple things. We would have cheered at such a tale during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan in all likelihood. The video was in egregiously poor taste, the song less so, but at the end of the day I still think it's his right to express himself as he sees fit.
I don't think he's "one who walks amongst us". He's a not a Muslim, and his song's story probably shocks me more for the fact that it has a grain of truth to it more than anything else - that ordinary people can be pushed to extremes by simple things. We would have cheered at such a tale during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan in all likelihood. The video was in egregiously poor taste, the song less so, but at the end of the day I still think it's his right to express himself as he sees fit.
George Wallace said:
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ModlrMike said:
That was the discussion of beer and cigars last night (and amazing roast lamb grilled up by one of the LCAs) - how is that different than censorship? Who is the arbiter of "the good of the nation"? That to me is by definition censorship, but I can see there's some line. If you're advocating the commission of a crime in some form, for example, then yes, there's got to be a discussion of the artistic merit of doing so. But to me even this doesn't go over that line.
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JorgSlice said:
Except there's no mechanism for that, without getting into very thorny issues. As I understand it, the funding he received, the quoted number, is what he's received all time, and I'm fine with accepting that there will be occasional controversy in an otherwise generally successful program. I don't know what "dishonour the troops" means in this context. We neither have, nor are we entitled to the universal admiration of Canadians, and the "involvement" is tangential anyhow.
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When I saw the video, I thought that artistically it was OK, putting aside wrong vehicles and uniforms for Canadian soldiers. I did understand the "story" behind that song, and he has the right to "sing" it. Thing is, he said in interviews that he wanted to show the Afghan view of the war. Fine by me, but what are it basics for that ? Did he spent months with Afghan farmers, did he spent time with a cell of Taliban studying their tactics ? If yes, well I think that a certain government group would have questions for him. But the answer is probably no, and that is where I am glad that the video was pull out of youtube and the song erased from his next album due to come out shortly (yep).
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2 Cdo said:
TFTFY.
Interestingly enough, he has another track (which still has an anti-war message to it) about a guy joining the military and straightening out his life - it's called Ryan. Don't think he's got any problem with militaries per se, but like plenty of people he's anti-war. And in a debate raging elsewhere over this, someone else made a great point. For all the whining about whatever funding he may have got, there's a not insignificant number of Canadians, I'm sure, who would be as outraged at the amount of money poured into the military in general, or the war in Afghanistan and want no part of that. So I guess it kind of balances out.
J
jollyjacktar
Guest
TFIFAE. It was correct the first time.Redeye said:
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Redeye said:
You know, people missuse that excuse so many times. Freedom of speech does NOT mean that you can spout off hate speech and encourage others to take up arms/react with hate/incite violence/libel/whatever. There is still responsibility attached to those rights that people like to conveniently forget or just plain ignore.
Your argument about his words not directly inciting violence? He may not have MEANT for it to happen, but when it says in the song that the singer (subject) recognizes the Canadian colours and how much he hates them, well, that's pretty much cut and dried as far as I am concerned.
I really don't care if he's got another song talking about a guy who joined the military and sorted himself out.
Seriously, stop being so apologist! The guy wrote a song that has the serious possibility of becoming an anthem for those who would wish to do us harm and pretty much copies all the Taliban music video propaganda that they send out. No wonder people are pissed to find out that the government is funding this.
If he's going to be anti-war, then maybe he should be writing songs against NATO and governments, not the people on the ground that are trying to make a difference.
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Redeye said:
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Because a legitimate function of government, funding a military and honouring our international commitments is balanced out by paying someone to pursue their hobby? And Strike is 100% correct. One of my favorite quotes:7 Blunders of the World by Mahatma Gandhi
Wealth without work
Pleasure without conscience
Knowledge without character
Commerce without morality
Science without humanity
Worship without sacrifice
Politics without principle
8th Blunder of the World by Arun Gandhi
Rights without responsibilities
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Strike said:
I don't see him as doing that - the song's "storyline" doesn't either suggest it. It doesn't encourage violence, it doesn't glorify or promote, it, it's not libelous, it's not hate speech. I make no apology for thinking free speech trumps basically anything, none of the limitations I would accept on speech (that is, libel, slander, incitement to violence etc) appear here. It's that simple. The likelihood of it becoming an anthem for anything approaches zero. The point he's making is against "NATO and governments". I cannot argue that the concept is plausible - it's basically McChrystal's Insurgent Math turned into a rap. I don't agree with his way of going about it, but I find it far more disturbing that people complain about the exercise of rights than anything in the song and its tasteless video.
