MEUF to Wing Utility Flight???

[Daysofyore]

Most people are by now aware of the Multi-Engine Utility Flight (MEUF) being operated out of 8Wg Trenton.  During a recent conversation with some HHQ folks the discussion turned to whether or not the MEUF concept had proven itself sufficiently and whether it was time to expand the concept to a Wing Utility Flight (WUF) as had been originally envisioned.

Personally I would argue that indeed the MEUF concept has proven itself and should be expanded upon past it's current form.  When first envisioned, the MEUF was seen as a way in which junior pilots awaiting OTU training could be gainfully employed while providing utility services to the CF.  Envisioned as 15-20 twin engine aircraft (like the King Air 200 currently used or the even more versatile King Air 350er (https://www.beechcraft.com/special_missions/utility_transport.aspx)) strategically based at major RCAF Wings (19Wg Comox, 17Wg Winnipeg, 8Wg Trenton, and 14Wg Greenwood) providing medium utility and transport functions to the CF.  (RCN, RCAF, Army)

What are the opinions of the members here?  Should the MEUF be expanded into a WUF concept or should it be scrapped altogether?  I for one believe that the WUF concept has the potential to solve or at least relieve many problems currently being faced within the RCAF pilot community.  I envision the WUF being a military version of civilian regional carriers where junior pilots can cut their teeth before moving onto the mainline carriers, or in the RCAF this would mean the more operationally complex communities.  (and NOT a flying club for senior staff officers to maintain their aircrew allowance and "get out of the office".  With all due respect sir, YFR has been cut and the kids need the time.  Your time has past)

The floor is open for discussion.

 

[Loachman]

(and NOT a flying club for senior staff officers to maintain their aircrew allowance and "get out of the office".  With all due respect sir, YFR has been cut and the kids need the time.  Your time has past)

Not a flying club for kids to maintain their aircrew allowance and "get out of the office".  With all due respect son, YFR has been cut and those flying operational aircraft need the time.  Your time hasn't come yet.

Fifteen to twenty? Seriously? That's our biggest need?

(Behind important things like retrogressive rank braid/badges and buttons.)

I can think of loads of things that should be put w - a - y ahead of any of this.

 

[Ostrozac]

What kind of cargo and passengers do they move? Is this a "better than UPS" way to move serialized kit like radios and STANO around the country and a "better than Bearskin" way to haul Ranger Instructors with their weapons and ammo? Or do they move Generals to parades? I honestly don't know those details.

Hard to talk about a pickup truck without talking about the cargo.

 

[Good2Golf]

...The floor is open for discussion.

Solution looking for a problem.

Pipeliners are going straight to front-line aircraft, new modern aircraft and moving onwards.  Why mess around on a small prop-job working the local area to "gain experience?"  Why not just continue getting experience post-wings on operational aircraft, in many cases augmented by state-of-the-art simulation to optimize experience? 

???

 

[PuckChaser]

I'm still wondering what operational purpose these small twin-prop planes have? If its to hold pilots over until they get onto a proper training unit, is the CAF recruiting too many pilots for the system to handle?

 

[Loachman]

Hmmm...

Register with a blank profile, make a post pushing an unnecessary product (including a link), log off and not come back.

Beechcraft employee/dealer looking to drum up some business via free advertising?

 

[Kirkhill]

I'm sure the response would have been a lot different had he proposed something like, oh.... I don't know.....The Twin Otter?    > ;D

Its OK - I'm going hands up on this one already.  :nod: :surrender:

 

[Zoomie]

Here's a bit of credibility to add to this thread.

MEUF is tasked daily to support RCAF movements.  It is not just a place for keeping new winged grads (NWGs) employed.  Most pilots that fly that thing are now those in ground tours at YTR and this is what keeps them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple years.

MEUF provides the gap in our Challenger fleet - inter-Canada transport of VIPs and selected personnel can now be achieved via a much more fiscally responsible method.  Cheaper than flying Air Canada out of Pearson.

IMHO - a WUF would be an excellent idea - cheap and reliable utility transport of personnel and equipment from Point A to B.

 

[Loachman]

Most pilots that fly that thing are now those in ground tours at YTR and this is what keeps them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple years.

Buy three helicopters to park in Kingston for those in ground tours to keep them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple of years.

Not that anybody in Kingston is complaining, at all, or lacks commitment or sanity.

Or has much free time to go joyriding.

What's so special about people/hard about life in Trenton?

If there is a valid case to be made, it should be made - and the priority should be stated honestly. That priority should fall behind real operational needs.

Other environmental/operational commands seem to get by without their own little fleets. Why should one be special?

 

[Good2Golf]

Here's a bit of credibility to add to this thread.

MEUF is tasked daily to support RCAF movements.  It is not just a place for keeping new winged grads (NWGs) employed.  Most pilots that fly that thing are now those in ground tours at YTR and this is what keeps them sane and committed to sticking it out for another couple years.

MEUF provides the gap in our Challenger fleet - inter-Canada transport of VIPs and selected personnel can now be achieved via a much more fiscally responsible method.  Cheaper than flying Air Canada out of Pearson.

IMHO - a WUF would be an excellent idea - cheap and reliable utility transport of personnel and equipment from Point A to B.

So who's doing the "ground tour" guy's job while he's out flying operational pers transport missions?

Where is Comd RCAF's stated transport deficiency?

When do we get not only multi-engine, but also rotary-wing util fleets based out of Rockliffe Flying Club to support NDHQ VIP pers movements?

???

 

[Privateer]

When do we get not only multi-engine, but also rotary-wing util fleets based out of Rockliffe Flying Club to support NDHQ VIP pers movements?

???

I think that service is already provided by the Sea Kings... ask Peter MacKay.

 

[Loachman]

That was a Cormorant, and it didn't come from anywhere near Ottawa.

 

[dimsum]

IMHO - a WUF would be an excellent idea - cheap and reliable utility transport of personnel and equipment from Point A to B.

A WUF in 19 Wg would probably blow through its YFR in 6 months flying Comox guys to/from Greenwood for all of their quals, deployment courses, etc.

I'd guess the same for 12 Wg.

 

[George Wallace]

Do we have to knock down the buildings that went up blocking Shearwater runways and bring back Scare Service Air to maintain three flights cross country in each direction (6 total) weekly?

 

[Good2Golf]

Do we have to knock down the buildings that went up blocking Shearwater runways and bring back Scare Service Air to maintain three flights cross country in each direction (6 total) weekly?

Don't forget half of 1 CMBG...  :nod:

 

[dimsum]

Do we have to knock down the buildings that went up blocking Shearwater runways and bring back Scare Service Air to maintain three flights cross country in each direction (6 total) weekly?

[wishful thinking]

And relocate all units now currently in Greenwood?  >

[/wishful thinking]

 

[The Bread Guy]

Necrothread bump with this from the RCAF's boss released 29 Feb 2024 ....

Statement by the Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force on the Multi-Engine Utility Flight contract - Canada.ca

The Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) is undergoing one of its most significant modernization efforts since the end of the Second World War. In just over one year, the Government of Canada has announced the procurement of 88 F-35 fighter jets, up to 16 P-8A Poseidon Maritime Patrol and...

www.canada.ca

Archived link also here.

 

[YZT580]

Necrothread bump with this from the RCAF's boss released 29 Feb 2024 ....

Statement by the Commander of the Royal Canadian Air Force on the Multi-Engine Utility Flight contract - Canada.ca

The Royal Canadian Air Force (RCAF) is undergoing one of its most significant modernization efforts since the end of the Second World War. In just over one year, the Government of Canada has announced the procurement of 88 F-35 fighter jets, up to 16 P-8A Poseidon Maritime Patrol and...

www.canada.ca

View attachment 83486
Archived link also here.

so reduced flying hours for training and increased sim. time. Any flying hours required will be on far more costly airframes putting more time on aircraft that are already building hours at a higher rate than originally anticipated.

 

[Spencer100]

so reduced flying hours for training and increased sim. time. Any flying hours required will be on far more costly airframes putting more time on aircraft that are already building hours at a higher rate than originally anticipated.

Success! Drinks all around!

 

[dimsum]

so reduced flying hours for training and increased sim. time. Any flying hours required will be on far more costly airframes putting more time on aircraft that are already building hours at a higher rate than originally anticipated.

How many pilots are using the MEUF though? It’s just in Trenton with 2 aircraft.