Military can‘t keep track of reserves

[Pikache]

http://www.canada.com/national/story.asp?id=01EDED26-3299-49E6-951A-B25D129D76CA

Doesn‘t know how many there are, has bungled recruiting, report finds

Mike Blanchfield
The Ottawa Citizen


Wednesday, June 18, 2003
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The Canadian Forces does not know how many reserve soldiers it has and also has bungled the recruiting of new part-time personnel, a report for Defence Minister John McCallum has concluded.

Those shortcomings continue to hamper the campaign to bolster the reserve force, which is becoming increasingly important to Canada‘s domestic security, including safeguarding against terrorist threats, John Fraser, chairman of the minister‘s monitoring committee on national defence, said yesterday in his latest report card.

"This inability to ascertain the precise number of militia personnel or strength at any one time constitutes an extremely serious accountability problem that needs to be immediately addressed," Mr. Fraser wrote.

Based on pay records, the army concluded it had reached a target of 15,500 reserve soldiers in September 2002, and as a result, stopped recruiting.

However, it is likely the real number was closer to 12,000, Mr. Fraser‘s report said.

The discrepancy was due in part to the military‘s inability to take into account that on average 25 to 35 per cent of reservists leave the Forces each year.

Mr. Fraser also concluded the Forces can‘t precisely trace how the money allocated to the reserves has been spent. He called on the military to ensure that funding and equipment commitments are forthcoming and that "there be no ‘tricks‘ in this commitment, which is bound to be scrutinized very closely."

More also needs to be done to fix bureaucratic and systemic shortcomings in just about every aspect of the recruiting process, including interviewing, physical testing and background checks, said Mr. Fraser.

The average wait to process an application is two months, he said, noting that "application files taking so long to process that potential recruits simply give up waiting for approval."

The Forces also have no capacity to call up large numbers of reservists in an emergency.

Mr. Fraser recommends bringing the reserves up to 30,000 personnel, including a minimum of 18,500 for the army. Reservists have played a key role in past Canadian peacekeeping missions, Mr. Fraser noted, making up 20 per cent of the personnel deployed to the Balkans.

Mr. Fraser acknowledged underfunding of the military may be forcing the regular army to use resources meant for the reserves, something he conceded may be "tantamount to plundering the army reserve."

© Copyright 2003 The Ottawa Citizen

 

[Deleted member 585]

Ouch. This may diminish public support for future military budget increases.

Why not have each reserve unit submit an up-to-date nominal role to their respective Bde. HQs ? Or is this what they ought to have been doing?

Is it possible that unit strengths were being fudged to justify extra funds for phantom troops? I hope not.

 

[Joel85]

This is the biggest joke ever. A government that doesn‘t even know how many friggin reservists it has. It‘s time for Chretien to take a hike, and for a PM that has plans to bolster the military to take his place.

 

[humint]

No offence, but I don‘t think that Harper and the CA is the answer to our plight.

PS. I am assuming that you support the CA. I base this on the common CA cause that is expressed on this site -- which is fine, it‘s just that the CA are not my cup of tea.

 

[Marauder]

Yeah, better the sumbitch you know, even if he beats and spits on you daily.

 

[rolandstrong]

As a reservist I find this news disappointing, mainly because it may make the units look responsible. pretty sad we can‘t track a small, under 15000 person force. That is not very large.

 

[humint]

I think we are giving the media too much credit. Normally, we see the media as a truth-seeker/teller, but often the media sensationalizes stories and offers an particular angle simply to make a headline and a story.

I think the problem with accountability for the res force is simply the intake and turnover (i.e. attrition rates) levels. So many people come and go, and others go on extended leave, while others are doing rotos and reg force stuff. Sure, I can believe that, at any one time we don‘t know how many active reservists there are. I think the process is much more complex than what the media is suggesting.

But, is not knowing exact numbers such a big deal? I beat $ to donoughts that each reg has a pretty good idea as to their numbers, etc, and so does NDHQ and the gov.

No political party, whether the CA, Libs, or otherwise, will be able to resolve this accountability issue -- it‘s simply the nature of the beast.

 

[Joel85]

Humint:

I don‘t support the Canadian Alliance, even though I do come from it‘s home, Alberta. I support the Liberals all the way, I just think we need more right-wing tendancies towards the military. Paul Martin or John Manley could achieve this.

 

[Korus]

I think we need an effective opposition party.
But that‘s just me.

 

[WINDWOLF]

If the PM has a majority,no opposition
party can be effective,right? or am i
missing something?

I still long for the Rhino Party as opposition.

 

[Rick Goebel]

The actual quote from the Fraser report (copied below) indicates that the only way the army has of figuring out how many reservists there are is to count paycheques. Given that units do indeed submit monthly strength returns, it is beyond me why the higher HQs can‘t just add them up. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.frasercom.ca/reports-e.htm.

"In respect of Fraser Recommendation # 6 progress has definitely been made in changing attitudes and some in improving bureaucratic procedures, but growth has been modest and much still remains to be done. An inability to ascertain the precise number of Militia personnel on strength at any one time further appears to have compromised sound decision-making. The official Army position is that the 15,500 figure was reached in September 2002, but on closer examination one can see that this number included not just part-time Class A personnel, but full-time Class B soldiers[32] on “call-out” for regular force duty as well (at 85% regular pay). The Government of Canada Policy Statement of 6 October 2000 clearly called for part-time Class A citizen soldiers. Specifically, the September 2002 total of 15,488 included 3,507 Class B “call-outs” and the October total of 15,425 as many as 2,342 Class B “call-outs.” By this measure, when the Army declared that it had met the 15,500 target it may have, in fact, only reached a strength of 11,981 part-time Class A soldiers. Pay records show, moreover, that combined Class A and B figures actually fell much below 15,500 to 13,784 in December 2002 (see chart below). Meanwhile, because the target 15,500 was assumed to have been attained, Reserve recruiting was terminated in the fall of 2002. This inability to ascertain the precise number of Militia personnel on strength at any one time constitutes an extremely serious accountability problem that needs to be immediately addressed. In fact, for lack of an appropriate accounting methodology, Militia numbers can only be determined by comparing issued cheques and service numbers reflected within a pay system never set up for this express counting purpose. There is thus good reason to believe that Militia recruiting was stopped prematurely in the mistaken belief that the 15,500 personnel objective had been met, when, in reality, it had not. This decision, in turn, jeopardized the ability of the Reserves to sustain existing numbers. In light of an historic annual attrition rate of 25-35%, this was a critical aspect unfortunately overlooked."

 

[Korus]

Well, by effective I mean that there is a real possibility of winning an election..

 

[WINDWOLF]

Disregard my last Korus,
I,m having a bad day & being a bit of
a sh!t head.Sorry.

Regards.

 

[Korus]

Don‘t worry about it.

 

[rolandstrong]

I forgot about those Rhino guys....thats going back some way isnt it Windwolf? LOL

 

[WINDWOLF]

Well Roland,that,s why i,m a OOLLLDD grunt.LOL
And to offer proof of this,it was only
yesterday that i found out what LOL means.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

The actual quote from the Fraser report (copied below) indicates that the only way the army has of figuring out how many reservists there are is to count paycheques. Given that units do indeed submit monthly strength returns, it is beyond me why the higher HQs can‘t just add them up. The full text of the report can be found at http://www.frasercom.ca/reports-e.htm.

"In respect of Fraser Recommendation # 6 progress has definitely been made in changing attitudes and some in improving bureaucratic procedures, but growth has been modest and much still remains to be done. An inability to ascertain the precise number of Militia personnel on strength at any one time further appears to have compromised sound decision-making. The official Army position is that the 15,500 figure was reached in September 2002, but on closer examination one can see that this number included not just part-time Class A personnel, but full-time Class B soldiers[32] on “call-out” for regular force duty as well (at 85% regular pay). The Government of Canada Policy Statement of 6 October 2000 clearly called for part-time Class A citizen soldiers. Specifically, the September 2002 total of 15,488 included 3,507 Class B “call-outs” and the October total of 15,425 as many as 2,342 Class B “call-outs.” By this measure, when the Army declared that it had met the 15,500 target it may have, in fact, only reached a strength of 11,981 part-time Class A soldiers. Pay records show, moreover, that combined Class A and B figures actually fell much below 15,500 to 13,784 in December 2002 (see chart below). Meanwhile, because the target 15,500 was assumed to have been attained, Reserve recruiting was terminated in the fall of 2002. This inability to ascertain the precise number of Militia personnel on strength at any one time constitutes an extremely serious accountability problem that needs to be immediately addressed. In fact, for lack of an appropriate accounting methodology, Militia numbers can only be determined by comparing issued cheques and service numbers reflected within a pay system never set up for this express counting purpose. There is thus good reason to believe that Militia recruiting was stopped prematurely in the mistaken belief that the 15,500 personnel objective had been met, when, in reality, it had not. This decision, in turn, jeopardized the ability of the Reserves to sustain existing numbers. In light of an historic annual attrition rate of 25-35%, this was a critical aspect unfortunately overlooked."

Thanks for the information, Colonel. Interesting indeed.

 

[humint]

My bad. Being from evil Ontario, I automatically assume everyone from the West is a CA supporter (except if you are from Manitoba, than you support the ultra-mod NDP commies ).

Yes, I agree, the Libs are cr@p on defence policy -- well, at least the part regarding funding. This is hard for me to take, as I am a Lib supporter on social and other facets of economic policy. One can only hope that the Liberal party doctrine towards to defence will change with the new blood coming in next year. But, I‘m not getting my hopes up, I really don‘t think Manley or Martin are that much different than my pal Jean.

This is an aside, but regarding political alternatives, lets remeber that it was the conservatives who axed the Avro Arrow.

Yes, we should all vote for the Rhino Party. Especially if they will make me a General!

Didn‘t the Rhino Party suggest we change our national flag to a white dove on a white background?

 

[Gunnar]

To make the discussion more overtly political, so far I haven‘t seen too much at which the Liberals aren‘t cr@p. I mean, hey, I don‘t agree with most Liberal policies and ideas, but you‘d think they‘d at least be able to implement their own ideas correctly???? And manage the money they spend on them with some level of competency?

From my point of view, I don‘t know which is worse...wasting money on programs I don‘t agree with, or wasting money so profligately that the programs I don‘t agree with are never implemented. (And the money is gone from programs we DO need, forever).

Regardless of your political leanings, I think it‘s time for a change. Almost every political party, once in power for a while, abuses the system (or some of its members do). You need a change of management as it were to catch thieves every now and again.

And not everyone in big bad Ontario votes Liberal either.

 

[WINDWOLF]

You know Gunnar,it would be interesting to
see the goverment run like a major
Corporation & be forced to show a profit.
Instead of a PM we should try a CEO & a board
of directors. Each province would have a VP & the public would be share holders. :dontpanic:

Unrealistic but pause for thought.

ya,that was them humint,just like a polar bear
in a snow storm, invisible to all.Can,t
remember why,but at least they knew how to poke
fun at the ruling party.

Aloha.