Military concerned by Canada's absence from American-British-Australian security pact

[FSTO]

^^
That is what happens when you allow a force to deteriorate to nothing and then have to rebuild it in a very compressed amount of time.

I think that Mackenzie-King would have been extremely happy with just having the Commonwealth Air Training plan and escorting convoys as Canada's only contribution to the war.

 

[GK .Dundas]

As it was I suspect that from my readings on that period. That King wasn't really too happy about even doing that much.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Just keep taking the Soma!

I don’t care what happens to the rest of my week; this post will likely be the highlight.

 

[OldSolduer]

I have some essays from OPMEs I wrote about 13 years ago or so. AND yes McKenzie King only wanted the BCATP to be Canada's only war contribution.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I have some essays from OPMEs I wrote about 13 years ago or so. AND yes McKenzie King only wanted the BCATP to be Canada's only war contribution.

since OPMEs existed…

 

[Edward Campbell]

^^
That is what happens when you allow a force to deteriorate to nothing and then have to rebuild it in a very compressed amount of time.

I think that Mackenzie-King would have been extremely happy with just having the Commonwealth Air Training plan and escorting convoys as Canada's only contribution to the war.

You're very right; King feared war because the Conscription Crisis ion 1917 was burned into his mind; in some ways he feared Churchill more than he feared Hitler because he understood that Churchill wanted to fight and defeat NaziGermany.

In my opinion Canada made three vital contributions to the allied cause in WWII:

• First, and most important: we were, yet again, the "breadbasket of the empire" but we were also a major - disproportionately large - part of the "arsenal of democracy;"
• Second, and almost as important: we were a major, bigger than any ally except the UK, combat power in the battle of the Atlantic which many, including Churchill, believed was the THE most important battle of the war against Germany; and
• Third: the Commonwealth Air Training Plan was vital and was extraordinarily well planned, managed and executed.

I'm not minimizing the effect the RCN, Canadian Army and RCAF had in Europe and Asia ... I'm just saying that any half-decent military force could have done the same with similar resources. Pachino would have happened if an Indian Division had gone ashore rather than 1st Canadian Infantry Division; ditto the battles of Britain and the Bay of Biscay. Neither India nor Australia could have done the industrial production - India was capable, Australia was too far away. The US could have done our share of the Battle of the Atlantic but there is still real doubt that Adm Ernest King would have had his heart in it.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The US could have done our share of the Battle of the Atlantic but there is still real doubt that Adm Ernest King would have had his heart in it.

The Anglophobe ... From everything I've read he really didn't like the Brits.

 

[Edward Campbell]

The Anglophobe ... From everything I've read he really didn't like the Brits.

It was worse than that ... he hated the Brits, the Royal Navy (and by extension the RCN) above all. I read, many years decades ago that the Cabinet Office was very wary of telling Washington everything that was going on - especially re Enigma, etc - because some people feared that King would be unable to control his Anglophobia and might leak the British code breaking secrets to the Germans. That story does NOT appear, as far as I know, in the official historical record but it made it into at least one reputable account of the 1939-42 period.

 

[Rifleman62]

When Murray sent ships to Halifax for repair or refit Jones striped them of many of their most important officers and petty officers because he needed to put at least a few seasoned sailors on new ships that were constantly entering service. Murray was, understandably, miffed at losing teams that were just getting to work well.

I believe, at one point, the RCN was "pulled" from escorting due to inadequate performance due to lack of training and experience. A direct result of the above.

.....King feared war because the Conscription Crisis ion 1917 was burned into his mind....

Liberal Party PM king did not want to lose the Quebec vote even when a World War was going on.

The US could have done our share of the Battle of the Atlantic but there is still real doubt that Adm Ernest King would have had his heart in it.

Adm King disliked/hated the Brits. He would not adopt the Convoy system until too many tankers where sunK along the US Atlantic coast.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It was worse than that ... he hated the Brits, the Royal Navy (and by extension the RCN) above all. I read, many years decades ago that the Cabinet Office was very wary of telling Washington everything that was going on - especially re Enigma, etc - because some people feared that King would be unable to control his Anglophobia and might leak the British code breaking secrets to the Germans. That story does NOT appear, as far as I know, in the official historical record but it made it into at least one reputable account of the 1939-42 period.

I did underplay that hatred...

Has it ever been established where this hatred came from ?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Some of the RCN ships were sailing with only one experienced deep sea sailor. One escort, it was the first trip for the Captain as a Captain and he manged to ram and sink a U-boat, whose Captain was also on his first patrol. Another major contribution that Canada did was the production of trucks, where the Allies had made agreements on truck design and production just prior to the outbreak of war. Canada produced more than a half a million CMP trucks throughout the war.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I did underplay that hatred...

Has it ever been established where this hatred came from ?

His Mom's ghost?

 

[Halifax Tar]

His Mom's ghost?

Oh my lord... he was one of those ?

 

[GK .Dundas]

His Mom's ghost?

It was either her or Pat.

 

[daftandbarmy]

This is informative.... and a good warning



Admiral Ernest J. King—Chief of Naval Operations, 1942

King had become Commander-in-Chief, U.S. Atlantic Fleet, in the fall of 1940, when his career was resurrected by CNO Admiral Harold “Betty” Stark. Stark had gotten the CNO position instead of King in 1939, and King had been assigned to be a member of the General Board, generally regarded as a twilight tour for very senior admirals. King was highly intelligent (fourth in his USNA class of 1901) with extensive experience in submarines (he proposed and designed the “Dolphins” pin, although he never earned one), and was a qualified aviator. He had a long and distinguished record for being able to get things done. He also did not suffer fools (or anyone who disagreed with him) gladly, with a leadership style and a volcanic temperament that would probably not survive in today’s Navy. King’s leadership philosophy can be summed up by a quote when he was a two-star: “I don’t care how good they are. Unless they get a kick in the ass every six weeks, they’ll slack off.” President Roosevelt said that King, “shaves every morning with a blowtorch.” Even his own daughter (one of six) was quoted as saying of her father that “he is the most even tempered person in the United States Navy. He is always in a rage.” He also partied hard and had a reputation as a womanizer, and was even upbraided as junior officer by Rear Admiral Charles McVay (father of the skipper of Indianapolis—CA-35) for bringing women onboard his ship. Perhaps worst of all, King was an avid reader and proponent of the study of military history (as was Nimitz, for that matter).

H-008-5 Admiral Ernest J. King

H-Gram 008, Attachment 5 Samuel J. Cox, Director NHHC July 2017

www.history.navy.mil