• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Military looks at foreign recruits to boost ranks

Underway

Army.ca Veteran
Donor
Reaction score
3,073
Points
1,040
jollyjacktar said:
As for resigning, he had "re-upped" and his bonus was $50K, which he fervently hope would come in while he was there as it would be tax free.  I told him l had signed IPS just before leaving Canada.  I explained it would take me to age 55, his eyes goggled and he asked what kind of bonus l received for that kind of commitment.  I laughed and said l got to keep my job.  He thought l was insane.  ;D

Does the US still have the up or out system for officer promotions?  Their Army Air was so messed up from that system they used the Warrant Officer position to fix it.  I'm sure the bonus issue has something to do with that.  And the fact that they were at constant war since 2001; many of the people I worked with having 5+ years of COMBAT experience.  Which from a Canadian perspective is insane during a non-mobilized situation.
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
1,766
Points
1,060
garb811 said:
Is anyone tracking when the citizenship requirement was actual instated?

I do remember doing a recruiting event as a young reservist in the early 2000s, and Permanent Residents were permitted to apply for the PRes. I think you may be right about it being less than a decade old requirement.

I think the bigger concern is that you can surely fill jobs that don't require a security clearance, but it already takes years for one of my Signallers to get their TS. If they were allowing recruitment of foreign nationals, I wouldn't be able to employ them right away as the minimum they would need is Secret.

Also immediately this comes to mind:
8bcd993169c946cc85d49123da28fbb0.jpg
 

dimsum

Army.ca Legend
Mentor
Reaction score
4,112
Points
1,260
Underway said:
Does the US still have the up or out system for officer promotions? 

Yes.  I'm pretty sure it's for all ranks, not just officers.
 

garb811

Army.ca Veteran
Staff member
Directing Staff
Reaction score
9
Points
530
PuckChaser said:
I do remember doing a recruiting event as a young reservist in the early 2000s, and Permanent Residents were permitted to apply for the PRes. I think you may be right about it being less than a decade old requirement.

I think the bigger concern is that you can surely fill jobs that don't require a security clearance, but it already takes years for one of my Signallers to get their TS. If they were allowing recruitment of foreign nationals, I wouldn't be able to employ them right away as the minimum they would need is Secret.

Also immediately this comes to mind:
Well, MPO is TS and they made the switch seamlessly.

While trying to find out, turns out the Citizenship Act actually has the following:

Citizenship grants: Canadian Armed Forces

General requirements

The applicant must

    be a permanent resident, have no unfulfilled conditions relating to their status as a permanent resident, and, if released from the CAF, have been released honourably; or
    be or have been attached or seconded to the CAF.

The applicant must also

    make an application for Canadian citizenship;
    be 18 years of age or older;
    meet the service requirement;
    have an adequate knowledge of one of Canada’s official languages;
    have an adequate knowledge of Canada and of the responsibilities and privileges of citizenship; and
    not be under removal order and not be subject of a declaration by the Governor in Council made pursuant to section 20 of the Act.

For applications signed after June 11, 2015, in addition to the requirements noted above, the applicant must meet the income tax filing requirement, if they are a permanent resident.
So perhaps they gained Citizenship via their exchange being long enough prior to switching to  us.  Prior to 2015 they only needed two years, now they need three.
 
J

jollyjacktar

Guest
Underway said:
Does the US still have the up or out system for officer promotions?  Their Army Air was so messed up from that system they used the Warrant Officer position to fix it.  I'm sure the bonus issue has something to do with that.  And the fact that they were at constant war since 2001; many of the people I worked with having 5+ years of COMBAT experience.  Which from a Canadian perspective is insane during a non-mobilized situation.

I don't honestly know.  This Capt was commissioned from the ranks. 

As for the up or out, when l was living in BAT3 on my first trip in 07, l had occasion to speak with a Canadian MWO who was mentoring the ANA along with an American of similar rank.

He related to me that his partner was told in 2000 at age 45 he was too old in grade and to get lost and retire already.  He tried to get them to reverse the decision as he really wanted to stay, but to no avail.

So, seven years later at age 52, he gets a letter from Uncle Sam informing him, his pension was hereby ceased as he was being reactivated to active duty.  He was to report to Fort such and such at this date for induction.  Failure to comply would result in 20 years to be served at Leavenworth.

When l was back in 09, l remember seeing a dottery old three hook Sgt, in ACU with an M4 strapped across his chest trying to get up the three wooden steps to the boardwalk at the Tim Hortons trailer.  He looked something you would have seen in Berlin in 45 waiting for Zukov to arrive.  I don't know what the poor old bugger knew, but he shouldn't have been there.  He made Col Potter look young.
 

tomahawk6

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
62
Points
530
The US Army doesnt allow for career captains.So officers who do not get promoted after 2 tries generally are released depending on the needs of the service.The link provided explains the process.

http://dopma-ropma.rand.org/failure-of-selection-for-promotion.html
 

dimsum

Army.ca Legend
Mentor
Reaction score
4,112
Points
1,260
CBC opinion article:

The Canadian Armed Forces recently said that in the interest of boosting ranks, it is considering changing its requirement that recruits have Canadian citizenship — a policy that many assumed to be longstanding.

In fact, the longstanding practice in our military has been to enroll non-citizens. It has long been part of our military tradition. If it had not been, I wouldn't be here writing this column...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/caf-citizenship-1.4687823?cmp=FB_Post_News
 

Stoker

Army.ca Veteran
Subscriber
Reaction score
294
Points
880
Altair said:
Americans do it.

France as well

In America's case they are allowed to join but their career is severely restricted until they become citizens, no overseas deployments, not allowed to have a security clearance among others.

So are we talking throwing open the doors on foreign recruiting and having a recruiting bus on the US/Quebec border? So why can't they join, be vetted while they complete basic and on completion be given some sort of citizenship course and on completion become full members of the forces and citizens?
 

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
2,011
Points
1,060
Underway said:
The training system isn't recruitings problem.

While they are separate systems, to us, to new members who spent X months or years languishing in some PAT or OJT positions, the combined effect of spending long times both in the recruiting and training systems/processes have to be both individual and combined dissatisfiers. 

I think, to a certain extent anyways, there is no real benefit to enrolling more people into the CAF thru the recruiting system if the trg system can't handle the influx.  If either one takes too long, some potentially excellent people will eventually walk away and that benefits no one.  In a way it comes down to a 'quantity vs quality' issue;  are we interested in the #s of "sworn in members of the CAF [CFRG focus]" or "CAF members at TES/OFP"[Trg system focus].

:2c:
 

Sub_Guy

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
0
Points
460
We’ve been doing this for a while now.  I know a few ex-RAF ACSOs who have joined the RCAF after their MPA was turned into razor blades

However, I was told the stream for ex-RAF (or any other nation for that matter) NCMs isn’t as friendly.  I guess it’s about to change, however, it’s too late.

We (specifically AES Ops) missed the boat  and now with every respectable nation bringing the P8 online, we could potentially lose a few qualified Canadians to the RAF, RNZAF or even the RAAF.


 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
7,207
Points
1,090
Why are we looking for ACSOs overseas? Plenty of underemployed baristas in Canada we could recruit...
 

SeaKingTacco

Army.ca Fixture
Donor
Reaction score
4,644
Points
1,010
dapaterson said:
Why are we looking for ACSOs overseas? Plenty of underemployed baristas in Canada we could recruit...

Please. Barista is a skilled occupation.

Now, if, hypothetically, we were talking about hiring Logistics Officers, well- a trip to the nearest Walmart and poaching their shelf stockers would about do the trick, right?
 

dapaterson

Army.ca Relic
Subscriber
Donor
Reaction score
7,207
Points
1,090
Please.

Wal-Mart expects productivity from its workers, which disqualifies them from being Log Os.
 

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
2,011
Points
1,060
dapaterson said:
Why are we looking for ACSOs overseas? Plenty of underemployed baristas in Canada we could recruit...

The experience levels are somewhat different; we didn't (to my knowledge) take an 'off the street recruit from the UK', they were all RAF Officers.  The ones who've come over (to our LRP fleet) had XXXX hours experience on mainly the Nimrod but other fleets as well. 

We've already lost good folks 'back' to the RAF now that their P8 is coming close to being a reality...I don't know if I'd jump ship to the RAF but I've said numerous times I'd not hesitate to do an exchange/OUTCAN to Lossie for...the remainder of my time to CRA.  333 Sqn would be another great one (not because of the awesome hiking and outdoor stuff  :Tin-Foil-Hat:).
 

dimsum

Army.ca Legend
Mentor
Reaction score
4,112
Points
1,260
Eye In The Sky said:
We've already lost good folks 'back' to the RAF now that their P8 is coming close to being a reality...I don't know if I'd jump ship to the RAF but I've said numerous times I'd not hesitate to do an exchange/OUTCAN to Lossie for...the remainder of my time to CRA.  333 Sqn would be another great one (not because of the awesome hiking and outdoor stuff  :Tin-Foil-Hat:).

Well, Andoya is an isolated place so folks from Greenwood would feel right at home  ;)

And Baristas need people skills, so there goes a good half of the ACSO trade there.

We (specifically AES Ops) missed the boat  and now with every respectable nation bringing the P8 online, we could potentially lose a few qualified Canadians to the RAF, RNZAF or even the RAAF.

What do you mean "could"?  I'm guessing the reason why people aren't leaving to the RAAF is b/c they aren't looking for ACSO/AESOP at this time.
 

Eye In The Sky

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
2,011
Points
1,060
https://www.defencecareers.mil.nz/reenlist-overseas/overseas-applicants/roles/

AES Ops and ACSOs might be able to go to the RNZAF.


https://airforce.defencejobs.gov.au/joining/can-I-join/citizenship/overseas-applicants

Possibly the RAAF as well for some Officers;  not Airman vacancies at this time.
 
Top