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dancurro said:
I am aware they are Peace Officers, didn't say they weren't, but that power is not all encompassing (basically there has to be a jurisdictional nexus to use the peace officer powers, by virtue of the offender's status within the CF, offences relating to CF property, or offences committed on CF property.) .
- Reaction score
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garb811 said:
Great Christmas gift. Cheers, I'll look out for you there.
Hatchet Man said:
Section 60 of the National Defense Act defines the scope of an MP's jurisdiction as a PO. Sections 61-65 further define terminology used in s.60 (below). I provided this info as a disambiguation of what a MP being a PO really means and not because you asked or said anything trivial Hatchet Man. (I also read it and took the time to learn some of it too.)
PART III
CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE
Division 1
Disciplinary Jurisdiction of the Canadian Forces
Application
CODE OF SERVICE DISCIPLINE
Division 1
Disciplinary Jurisdiction of the Canadian Forces
Application
Persons subject to Code of Service Discipline
60. (1) The following persons are subject to the Code of Service Discipline:
(a) an officer or non-commissioned member of the regular force;
(b) an officer or non-commissioned member of the special force;
(c) an officer or non-commissioned member of the reserve force when the officer or non-commissioned member is
(i) undergoing drill or training, whether in uniform or not,
(ii) in uniform,
(iii) on duty,
(iv) [Repealed, 1998, c. 35, s. 19]
(v) called out under Part VI in aid of the civil power,
(vi) called out on service,
(vii) placed on active service,
(viii) in or on any vessel, vehicle or aircraft of the Canadian Forces or in or on any defence establishment or work for defence,
(ix) serving with any unit or other element of the regular force or the special force, or
(x) present, whether in uniform or not, at any drill or training of a unit or other element of the Canadian Forces;
(d) subject to such exceptions, adaptations and modifications as the Governor in Council may by regulations prescribe, a person who, pursuant to law or pursuant to an agreement between Canada and the state in whose armed forces the person is serving, is attached or seconded as an officer or non-commissioned member to the Canadian Forces;
(e) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, who is serving in the position of an officer or non-commissioned member of any force raised and maintained outside Canada by Her Majesty in right of Canada and commanded by an officer of the Canadian Forces;
(f) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, who accompanies any unit or other element of the Canadian Forces that is on service or active service in any place;
(g) subject to such exceptions, adaptations and modifications as the Governor in Council may by regulations prescribe, a person attending an institution established under section 47;
(h) an alleged spy for the enemy;
(i) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, who, in respect of any service offence committed or alleged to have been committed by the person, is in civil custody or in service custody; and
(j) a person, not otherwise subject to the Code of Service Discipline, while serving with the Canadian Forces under an engagement with the Minister whereby the person agreed to be subject to that Code.
- Reaction score
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as far as my own dealings with Military police from a major case point of view as part of a team. They enforce Criminal Code anywhere in Canada- but by virtue of their duties dont come into contact off the base. This has been an issue in several jurisdictions due to transiting etc. This has been explained to me in great detail when working with NIS- it often seems they feel like they need to explain it anew everytime I deal with them. It appears that members of the CF often attempt to divide them from "real cops".
They have the same powers as any police officer if they come into contact with a crime in progress on or off base- this lead to them not being allowed to leave base for a period of time in Cold Lake for fear that they would be compelled to intervene. Their are policies that come into play but they do not affect the overall authority. They are unique in the military police universe as they are actual peace officers appointed as such for the purpose of the Criminal Code.
What you are quoting there is Code of Service Discipline that has to do with enforcing other acts like the NDA (as is my understanding)- not the criminal code. Its providing arrest authority for service offences- since they arent defined in the Criminal Code there would be no authority to arrest without that section.
Like in certain Highway Traffic Act it outlines certain instances where arrest can be made.
MP's were teaching in depot years ago etc. I was under the impression that it was policy that precluded most of their criminal code duties- like how a cop in Edmonton will avoid just walking into another "jurisdiction". But those determinations are not from the code itself. I am open to being corrected.
The reason in Borden why they wouldnt say "police officer" is because 99% of your authorities say "A peace officer may" or a "peace officer shall" they dont say Police Officer. So its an important distinction when discussing authorities and articulation.
That said- they are police officer. It is a police service. But it really doesnt matter- these arguments exist for the CN police and several others.
riiiiiiiight. I mean its not like we dont have those positions.
They have the same powers as any police officer if they come into contact with a crime in progress on or off base- this lead to them not being allowed to leave base for a period of time in Cold Lake for fear that they would be compelled to intervene. Their are policies that come into play but they do not affect the overall authority. They are unique in the military police universe as they are actual peace officers appointed as such for the purpose of the Criminal Code.
What you are quoting there is Code of Service Discipline that has to do with enforcing other acts like the NDA (as is my understanding)- not the criminal code. Its providing arrest authority for service offences- since they arent defined in the Criminal Code there would be no authority to arrest without that section.
Like in certain Highway Traffic Act it outlines certain instances where arrest can be made.
MP's were teaching in depot years ago etc. I was under the impression that it was policy that precluded most of their criminal code duties- like how a cop in Edmonton will avoid just walking into another "jurisdiction". But those determinations are not from the code itself. I am open to being corrected.
The reason in Borden why they wouldnt say "police officer" is because 99% of your authorities say "A peace officer may" or a "peace officer shall" they dont say Police Officer. So its an important distinction when discussing authorities and articulation.
That said- they are police officer. It is a police service. But it really doesnt matter- these arguments exist for the CN police and several others.
dancurro said:As far as I'm concerned military policing vastly trumps civi policing. But if I don't get in with the MPs...and I'm interviewing with a civilian service, I won't tell them I think that. :nod:
riiiiiiiight. I mean its not like we dont have those positions.
- Reaction score
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Container said:
Riiiight should've seen that one coming. It's a discussion in itself. My senses and reasoning so far have been telling me I'll have a more fulfilling career as an MP opposed to being a municipal or prov. PO. Do you think weighing the two careers would make a good forum topic? I'm likely to be persuaded by someone such as yourself who's seen both sides of the picture from a much closer point of view.
Container said:
I believe you're correct in stating only policy precludes their CCC duties probably just within reason. Ie exceptions such as fresh pursuit, exigent circ. etc...
- Reaction score
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- Points
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dancurro said:
dancurro said:
Salary is not everything, but it is one factor to consider in your choice of employer.
In 2011, some TPS Constables made around $149,000. That includes overtime, but not Taxable Benefits or Paid Duty ( $65.00 per hour, minimum $195.00 ).
The Chief made just under $329,000.
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mariomike said:
If money is not a driving factor for this individual, let him pursue proudly serving his country just on his conviction. No need to be waving figures in his face, from the looks of things, you probably get a bonus from TPS/TEMS every time you post about them and try to draw people into it. :
Yes, the salary is nice but some of us are capable of budgeting and don't need shiny possessions or the biggest house to survive and therefore, don't need 6 figure pay rates to live comfortably.
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Thanks Mariomike and PrairieThunder,
I'm definetly going to start a new form topic for this comparison. As far as money goes I would like to be able to support a family and start my own small business one day. I like race cars and hot tubs like everyone else but they don't motivate me much. I'm a security guard and making enough to have a family is all I want.
I run into (Toronto) cops all day and they display their gratitude for being able to pickup a pay duty whenever it comes along. When I mention the constable/detective who can make over 100g's they say they say it's not worth missing out on your family and the stress. Some of them have done it themselves and they all tend to agree it burns you out. (Not for a week but long term)
I'm definetly going to start a new form topic for this comparison. As far as money goes I would like to be able to support a family and start my own small business one day. I like race cars and hot tubs like everyone else but they don't motivate me much. I'm a security guard and making enough to have a family is all I want.
I run into (Toronto) cops all day and they display their gratitude for being able to pickup a pay duty whenever it comes along. When I mention the constable/detective who can make over 100g's they say they say it's not worth missing out on your family and the stress. Some of them have done it themselves and they all tend to agree it burns you out. (Not for a week but long term)
- Reaction score
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dancurro said:
There isn't a need. There are pros and cons for both.
Domestic PO's tend to be stuck within a province or city (exception being RCMP) and conduct policing on everything... Traffic, Murders, Drugs, Kiddie Diddling, etc. it can get quite gruesome. Went on a ride along not too long ago for a DOA, had to get the FD to chop down the door and the first thing that hit was the stench... then the sight. Some get used to it, some don't. For me, the sight of a body no matter how mangled doesn't bother me anymore but the stench will always make me sick. Domestic PO's have opportunity to work in foreign countries but is usually only in conjunction with the United Nations and tend to be limited.
Military Police can be posted to any DND establishment in the country. Even Cadet Camps for 2 months during a summer. MPs also have the opportunity to deploy on operations and can be posted to any Canadian Embassy on the globe. Policing is conducted on the essentially the very same things as Domestic PO's, the difference being they have the National Defence Act/Code of Service Discipline to worry about and their jurisdiction is limited to the base/station/DND facility.
That's just a few I can think of off the top of my head. Compare it for yourself and choose something you'll enjoy and that you can see yourself doing as a long-term carrier. While MP is limited and competitive, remember that after a successful 5+ years as an MP, it's almost too easy getting onto a Domestic/Civilian Police Service (for some, experiences may differ, dependant on Totality of Circumstances).
Cheers
P.S.
Just whatever you do, don't just take a Policing Diploma and leave it at that, get a certificate in Social Work or Finance and upgrade that diploma to a degree in the future. You need something that will get you a job if the CF doesn't come through or you get injured/release during service. (Police Foundations is useless on it's own and even seems that it decreases your chance of being hired by civilian/domestic police services).
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I want to get an education in another field but here's why I'm not doing that right now...PrairieThunder said:
After I finished police foundations I started doing security for job related experience. Talk bad about that if you want but I don't regret what I've learned. After 1 year I applied to the CF. It's a long process, it's been a year since then. I haven't applied anywhere else and I'm not going to go anywhere until I get my job in law enforcement. I've put EVERYTHING into this career and I'm not going to change my mind and become a social worker or an accountant because that's pussing out. There is a career out there for me in law enforcement and I'm going to get it. If I get injured on the job I'll retrain but at least I didn't back down from my goal. I would love to be in my 20's for another decade and get a uni. education but lol not gonna happen. BTW If I could do it again I would study law and still try getting into LE, maybe becoming a lawyer somewhere down the road.
I believe you have a valid point but I'm sure you understand putting everything into something. We do it in the gym when we push weight, we do it when we fight, we do it when we try to solve a problem; we focus on one goal only and work hard as hell to win.
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dancurro said:
Dont be so dramatic. Not having a plan B is a silly way to go through life. He gave you good advice.
Your police foundations diploma has 3 uses: 1) to be moved over into a degree program 2) to get you into the Military Police and 3) to get you into bylaw enforcement.
We dont need more police officers who cant keep ahead of the curve. You need to start thinking about the curve and how to stay ahead. Putting your eggs in one basket is not a wise path.
Especially given the current recruting climate for the police services- Military Police included and in a way- moreso.
As for the Military Police in general- its a good career for some and for others it doesnt work out and they go Civi. You will find when you get in that it isnt always waht YOU want to do with your career and the sexy stuff might always be just out of reach for one reason or another. There is an element of luck and being in the right place at the right time. Then the chance may present itself- then you have to earn it. You may be completely able to do the sexy but the opportunity just never presents itself.
You need to be happy sitting in the guardhouse or a police car. I've worked my way through most of the sexy stuff now on the civi side....and Im back in the police car because I prefered it. I keep some bad assery on the side but day to day I like being a front line cop.
- Reaction score
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dancurro said:
Court time ( especially Traffic Court ) would account for a lot of OT. ( Paid Duty - as you probably know - is not OT ).
According to the Sun ( March 20, 2012 ), "the annual salary paid to a ( TPS ) police constable ranges from $83,482 to $99,997."
So, it would not require a lot of OT to make $100,000. Higher ranks make it on base salary alone.
To prevent "burn out", every City employee has the option of receiving time-and-a-half as lieu time ( instead of cash ) for OT worked.
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Just to clarify, it isn't MP policy, it is Case Law. See: R. v. Nolan. Someone, at sometime, must have decided it wasn't important to teach this point at the Academy because it seems very few of the young guys know about it yet it is key to understanding our jurisdictional authority and a source of much angst for them when they see "us dinosaurs" keeping them from acting like they think they should off base.Container said:
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garb811 said:
Absolutely fascinating. I stand corrected.
Most certainly needs to get placed back in Borden- this has come up quite a bit. Although I disagree with the decision- its there and we have to live with it- as will all the new MP's.
So Garb- if you stop a civilian on the base who is impaired- you call officers of local jurisdiction or is the gate where your CC ends?
- Reaction score
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No, if the offence takes place on Base it is ours, even if the actual stop takes place off Base, such as in Nolan. We can also have jurisdiction off base if a military nexus can be proven; the EBay CADPAT files are good examples of that.
- Reaction score
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I do apologize as my question is more related to the beginning of this thread rather than the direction it ended up taking, but since the topic is related I'll post here as it seems the most relevant if that's okay.
I would like to know if anyone else was contacted as well? The reason I'm asking is because I'm in the same boat as 'dancurro' before his call. I spoke to my file manager this past Friday (much to my surprise he was actually in the office--I was just going to leave a message) at the Hamilton CFRC and he said he didn't have any information as to when the next MPAC was. I then explained that I had read of a recruit who had been contacted on Dec 21 and had to have his paper work in by Jan. 11, etc. and there were posts about a possible MPAC in February 2013. My file manager was very surprised to not only hear that there must be another MPAC scheduled, but to know that someone had been contacted at all. He explained that how it works is once the selection has been made, the centres are emailed the list and he hasn't received anything. Does anyone know if all centres are contacted with this information, or only the ones which have applicants whom they need to contact? I'm just trying to find out why my file manager may be in the dark...
Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
I would like to know if anyone else was contacted as well? The reason I'm asking is because I'm in the same boat as 'dancurro' before his call. I spoke to my file manager this past Friday (much to my surprise he was actually in the office--I was just going to leave a message) at the Hamilton CFRC and he said he didn't have any information as to when the next MPAC was. I then explained that I had read of a recruit who had been contacted on Dec 21 and had to have his paper work in by Jan. 11, etc. and there were posts about a possible MPAC in February 2013. My file manager was very surprised to not only hear that there must be another MPAC scheduled, but to know that someone had been contacted at all. He explained that how it works is once the selection has been made, the centres are emailed the list and he hasn't received anything. Does anyone know if all centres are contacted with this information, or only the ones which have applicants whom they need to contact? I'm just trying to find out why my file manager may be in the dark...
Any insight you can offer would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
I know this much ... at times a specific MPAC will be held for a specific unit. For example ... if Res MP company has enough applicants they will hold an MPAC specifically for that unit. If there is a couple of spaces available they may farm them out to other applicants. The MPAC is the same across the board so any MP applicant can take part as it is the same process.
Don't expect that just because there is an MPAC that the notice will go out to all Recruiting Centers. Money may also be in issue (as they have really tightened things up in the Military Police Branch recently). So perhaps they have you on the list waiting until they have one in your region.
Also keep in mind that there is a lot of demand for positions on the MPAC.
I hope that you get some good news soon!
Don't expect that just because there is an MPAC that the notice will go out to all Recruiting Centers. Money may also be in issue (as they have really tightened things up in the Military Police Branch recently). So perhaps they have you on the list waiting until they have one in your region.
Also keep in mind that there is a lot of demand for positions on the MPAC.
I hope that you get some good news soon!
- Reaction score
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ResMP said:
Thank you very much, ResMP. I really appreciate the extra information.
While I believe my qualifications/experience are stacked, I've read and heard much regarding the competition for my trade (both before and after applying), so my only hope is that they're stacked enough! I've had good feedback through the entire process from both my interviewing officer (some critiques as well, of course) and from my file manager, but ultimately time will tell. Truthfully, I'm fully expecting to have to wait until the new fiscal year to make it to the MPAC, but became slightly concerned when it appeared my file manager was out of the loop, so to speak.
Thanks again
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Hi everyone,
I am new to this and this is my first time posting, so I hope I do it right lol.
I too am merit listed awaiting to be selected for MPAC. Can anyone give more information about the process? Ive heard a few different dates as to when the next one is. I applied January 2012, did very well on the aptitude test and was told that I scored really high overall. I hit a bump with the medical, failing the eye exam
so in June 2012 I had lasik eye corrective surgery and my application was put on hold for 3 months. I missed the October MPAC because of this but was told I would most likely get to go to the next one. I was contacted yesterday about filling out a release form for MPAC, and that is where I stand now.
I am new to this and this is my first time posting, so I hope I do it right lol.
I too am merit listed awaiting to be selected for MPAC. Can anyone give more information about the process? Ive heard a few different dates as to when the next one is. I applied January 2012, did very well on the aptitude test and was told that I scored really high overall. I hit a bump with the medical, failing the eye exam
so in June 2012 I had lasik eye corrective surgery and my application was put on hold for 3 months. I missed the October MPAC because of this but was told I would most likely get to go to the next one. I was contacted yesterday about filling out a release form for MPAC, and that is where I stand now.
