More Civvies Killed by NATO than Bad Guys?!?!

[The Bread Guy]

WTF????  Reporters as casualty analysts?  No details?  Good reporting, lads....

Highlights mine - shared with the usual disclaimer...

Karzai Warns NATO: Afghan Life Not Cheap
RAHIM FAIEZ, Associated Press, Jun 23, 3:22 PM EDT
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KABUL, Afghanistan (AP) -- President Hamid Karzai accused NATO and U.S.-led troops Saturday of carelessly killing scores of Afghan civilians and warned that the fight against resurgent Taliban militants could fail unless foreign forces show more restraint.

"Afghan life is not cheap and it should not be treated as such," Karzai said in an angry rebuke that drew a contrite acknowledgment from NATO that it must "do better."

In the past 10 days, more than 90 civilians have been killed by airstrikes and artillery fire targeting Taliban insurgents, Karzai said. The mounting toll is sapping the authority of the Western-backed Afghan president, who has pleaded repeatedly with U.S. and NATO commanders to consult Afghan authorities during operations and show more restraint.

"Several times in the last year, the Afghan government tried to prevent civilian casualties, but our innocent people are becoming victims of careless operations of NATO and international forces," Karzai said at a news conference in his Kabul palace.

The casualties listed by Karzai bring the number of civilians killed in NATO or U.S.-led military operations this year to 211, according to an Associated Press tally of figures provided by Afghan and foreign officials and witnesses.

That tops the 172 civilians killed in militant attacks.

"If NATO forces want to be successful in their fight against terrorism and in bringing security to Afghanistan, they should coordinate with the Afghan government, no matter if the operation is small or big," Karzai said in a mixture of English and his native Pashto ....



Karzai angry over West's tactics
BBC NEWS, 2007/06/23 15:42:24 GM:
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Nato and US-led troops are failing to co-ordinate with their Afghan allies and thereby causing civilian deaths, President Hamid Karzai has said.

He criticised his Western allies' "extreme" use of force and said they should act as his government asked.

"Innocent people are becoming victims of reckless operations" because the troops had ignored Afghan advice for years, Mr Karzai told reporters.

He was speaking after a week in which up to 90 Afghan civilians were killed.

More civilians have been killed this year as a result of foreign military action than have been killed by insurgents, correspondents say.

Separately, rockets fired by coalition forces in Afghanistan killed at least nine Pakistani civilians, the Pakistan military said on Saturday.

Coalition forces were fighting militants in Afghanistan close to the Pakistan border when a few rockets came across the frontier, hitting a house.

Pakistan is demanding an explanation, a spokesman said.

Nato said about 60 militants in Afghanistan had been killed in the offensive.

'Indiscriminate'

Mr Karzai was speaking a day after the head of Nato called for an investigation into an air strike in the Afghan province of Helmand in which 25 civilians were killed.

The Afghan leader said foreign bombardment had also killed 62 civilians in the province of Uruzgan.

"You don't fight a terrorist by firing a field gun 37km (24 miles) away into a target. That's definitely, surely bound to cause civilian casualties," he said.

The south of the country has seen the worst violence since the Taleban were ousted from power in 2001 by US-led troops.

Accusing international forces of consistently failing to co-ordinate with their Afghan colleagues, Mr Karzai said that, in future, every military operation should be co-ordinated directly with his government, in accordance with written plans he said already existed.

"As you are aware over the past several days, as result of indiscriminate and imprecise operations of Nato and coalition forces, our people suffered casualties," Mr Karzai told reporters in Kabul, looking visibly angry.

"We are thankful for their help to Afghanistan. But that does not mean that Afghan lives have no value. Afghan life is not cheap and it should not be treated as such," he said.

'One too many'

There are two international missions in Afghanistan.

One is the Nato-led Isaf, with 37,000 troops from 37 countries including the US.

Its aim is to help the Afghan government bring security, development and better governance.

The US-led coalition - under the banner of Operation Enduring Freedom - is a counter-terrorism mission that involves mainly special forces.

Both have recently been involved in heavy clashes with insurgents.

Speaking in Quebec City, Canada, on Friday Nato's secretary general Jaap de Hoop Scheffer said no Nato, coalition or Afghan soldier would knowingly take aim at a civilian, and accused the Taleban of using civilians as human shields.

"Each innocent civilian victim is one too many," he said. "Unfortunately it happens."



A bit more....

 

[CdnArtyWife]

Perhaps it is difficult to tell the difference between civilians and insurgents that have been killed because the insurgents continually forget to carry their "Insurgent Force Club" membership card on them. Therefore all those failing to have appropriate identification on their person would be labled a "civilian"?

Just being a devil's advocate here.  >

 

[retiredgrunt45]

But you are correct, most insurgents just blend in with the population when the going gets tough and the s*** hits the fan. One minute their combatants the next their just another Afghan civilian walking down the street. The Taliban are cowards first and foremost, they hide behind women and children and cower away when the heat gets to hot. So much for the brave Jihad warriors... Right. My dog has more spine. "Spineless cowards"

Its hard to fight a war against these types and hope you get the bad guys. But on the other hand, who's to say the people you killed weren't the bad guys to begin with..... "Catch 22".

 

[The Bread Guy]

they hide behind women and children and cower away when the heat gets to hot.

Literally, according to at least one account (Reuters, 18 Jun 07):

.... Earlier on Monday, the U.S.-led coalition force apologised for the deaths of the children at a madrasa in southeastern Paktia province at the weekend but said they had no idea children were present when the premises were attacked.  "We are truly sorry for the innocent lives lost in this attack," said Army Major Chris Belcher, a coalition spokesman, in a statement. "We had surveillance on the compound all day and saw no indications there were children inside the building."  The statement said children who survived Sunday's raid said insurgents had forced pupils to stay inside the madrasa. The White House accused the Taliban of using human shields.  In Washington, White House spokesman Tony Snow said: "Obviously any time innocents are killed it is something that is a tragedy and certainly we grieve for those who are lost.  "We also understand that ... the Taliban and other terrorists try to transform innocents into human shields." ....

or this, from ISAF (22 Jun07)

''Taliban extremists have been desecrating cemeteries and burial sites, using children as bombers, and violating Islamic tradition, according to ISAF officials here.

“They placed explosives on a 6-year-old boy and told him to walk up to the Afghan Police or Army and push the button,” said Capt. Michael P. Cormier, company commander.  “Fortunately, the boy did not understand and asked patrolling officers why he had this vest on.

“This type of action is not tolerated by any culture or any people,” said Maj. Donald A. Korpi, ISAF’s Regional Command-East spokesman.  It was the people in the area who first reported these activities to the Afghan security forces in the Andar district, he said.

Afghan National Army and ISAF troops supporting Operation Maiwand reported increased improvised-explosive device attacks and finding weapon caches near grave sites recently, Korpi said.

“We have received reports that Taliban are watching convoys and security forces from cemeteries and exploding the device as the soldiers or police vehicles pass,” Korpi said.  The Taliban dig up graves and wait for passing soldiers, he added.  When the soldiers clear the area after the explosion, the Taliban extremists re-bury the body.

Another ISAF official noted the Taliban are doing activities they forbid.

“We have seen the Taliban in recent weeks shave their beards and even wear women’s clothing in an attempt to avoid detection by security forces,” Cormier said.

Recent attacks by the Taliban show their desperation, according to Cormier.

“In another incident they placed explosives in a Sunni mosque used by local workers and contractors,” Cormier said.''

 

[Armymedic]

NATO is not killing more civilians. The TB still are killing more by use of IEDs etc. What is happening now; because of the TB herding women and children to places where they want to fight from or seek santuary, larger groups of innocents are being killed.

Larger groups get reported.

No one reports 1 child killed in Afghanitan as a headline....7 children makes bold print.

 

[Greymatters]

"In the past 10 days, more than 90 civilians have been killed by airstrikes and artillery fire targeting Taliban insurgents, Karzai said. The mounting toll is sapping the authority of the Western-backed Afghan president, who has pleaded repeatedly with U.S. and NATO commanders to consult Afghan authorities during operations and show more restraint."

I think Karzai is experienced enough that if he could blow it off for lack of evidence he would.  In which case, he's probably catching a lot of heat from his own people and was forced to make a public statement...