Most dreadful PT experience

[CorporalMajor]

Hey!

With all these lovely vomiting stories... I have to admit... vomiting is not my favorite activity...  ;D
Should I expect to vomit often if I join the military?  :-X

That depends on what kind of shape you're in.  I joined completely out of shape and weak, and I was at the mercy of some 2CER juniors in Pet on my Basic.  The first day at PT I puked, but eventually (as soon as two weeks later) I kept up.  That was 3 years back.  Today if I'm not sweating and slightly strained after a workout, I don't feel right.  Hell I can even do 40 pushups now.  You'll see what I mean.   

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Doing the SSF Ironman back in 1985 whoops, 1986. :-[
I was finishing up my 10 month French course, and my unit was in Cypress so there was no 2RCHA representation in the race, and that wouldn't do. So, thinking I hadn't got that far out of shape sitting in class and, if I just pad up my rucksack like last time, I should be OK was not exactly true.

The frame wore away any skin it came in contact with on my lower back and for about a month if I bent over, or even leaned forward, I would break open this rucksack-wide scab causing a hard-to-look-cool stain on the back of my shirts.

 

[time expired]

A story from the other side of the wire.I was a PTI with the
QORofC depot in the early 60s,it was a beautiful Alberta winter
morning,20 below in brilliant sunshine,recruits whining about it
being too cold to do our endurance run.As this happened every
time it went below zero,and usually the same guys doing the
whingeing,I allowed that it was too cold and ordered them to
put on their greatcoats we then ran the Sarcee triangle in our
greatcoats,nobody was cold.Never had a complaint about the
cold again.That was the old Army and I suppose now I would
have been accused of infringement of their human rights and
maybe torture, in this new enlightened millennium.
                                      Regards

 

[ARMY_101]

Coming back from an exercise during our DP1 in Meaford: everyone's been up for three days doing FOB drills, offensive attacks, patrols, and trench positions.  We finally pack up and begin our 5km ruck back to base with all of our kit.  Half of our staff are rucking with us, while the other half got a ride back in one of the MilCots.  Finally getting back to base, everyone's tanked but glad we were able to get through the exercise.  Everyone grabs an IMP and begins cleaning their weapons.

It's time for a staff change.  Remember the staff who got a ride?  They've been sleeping for the past hour and a half and can't possibly imagine why they're seeing some tired soldiers cleaning their weapons.  Finally one of them gets so pissed off that he gets everyone's weapons down, everyone gets back into full FFO, and we get to have a gauntlet of sprints, push-ups, sit-ups, and circuits.  Boy did that hurt

 

[CorporalMajor]

Coming back from an exercise during our DP1 in Meaford: everyone's been up for three days doing FOB drills, offensive attacks, patrols, and trench positions.  We finally pack up and begin our 5km ruck back to base with all of our kit.  Half of our staff are rucking with us, while the other half got a ride back in one of the MilCots.  Finally getting back to base, everyone's tanked but glad we were able to get through the exercise.  Everyone grabs an IMP and begins cleaning their weapons.

It's time for a staff change.  Remember the staff who got a ride?  They've been sleeping for the past hour and a half and can't possibly imagine why they're seeing some tired soldiers cleaning their weapons.  Finally one of them gets so pissed off that he gets everyone's weapons down, everyone gets back into full FFO, and we get to have a gauntlet of sprints, push-ups, sit-ups, and circuits.  Boy did that hurt

Did you not get the memo.  Common sense is frowned upon in the Army.  So is leadership by example, by the looks of that.  Unless they were with you guys on the march the whole time, they should worry about something else and bugger off, and since they didn't, they had no place doing that.. It's one of the principles of leadership:  Share the burden, share the workload.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Coming back from an exercise during our DP1 in Meaford: everyone's been up for three days doing FOB drills, offensive attacks, patrols, and trench positions.  We finally pack up and begin our 5km ruck back to base with all of our kit.  Half of our staff are rucking with us, while the other half got a ride back in one of the MilCots.  Finally getting back to base, everyone's tanked but glad we were able to get through the exercise.  Everyone grabs an IMP and begins cleaning their weapons.

It's time for a staff change.  Remember the staff who got a ride?  They've been sleeping for the past hour and a half and can't possibly imagine why they're seeing some tired soldiers cleaning their weapons.  Finally one of them gets so pissed off that he gets everyone's weapons down, everyone gets back into full FFO, and we get to have a gauntlet of sprints, push-ups, sit-ups, and circuits.  Boy did that hurt

I'm with CorporalMajor on this one... those staff sound like the typical Idiot "We wanna be super hardcore" types that unfortunatly seem to breed in meaford and similar places.... 

 

[CorporalMajor]

I'm with CorporalMajor on this one... those staff sound like the typical Idiot "We wanna be super hardcore" types that unfortunatly seem to breed in meaford and similar places....

I was on a Meaford Res-staffed SQ and while some of them were good, the other half were exactly that, as if they have something to prove to us.  Unfortunately they didn't know we don't really care about what they had to prove, and that it was essentially a show. 

Everyone knows it's a challenging course, but for some reason, some don't appreciate the "do your job well, stay out of trouble and we will leave you alone" policy that good instructors use.  On SQ's ex, you have already been three days with little sleep, received some form of discipline you genuinely deserved, ate garbage and have been hauling shit on your back nearly every step of the way.  you're playing Army, so that's fair enough.

So after that, what does playing "hardass" show?  There's something WAY better called "quiet professionalism" and "self control" which is much more common in those god-sent reg force instructors - something not often seen in these instructors who jack people up for nothing. This is a learning experience:  Being shouted at does not make you better at your craft, unless there's a valuable lesson being taught with it.

I have already pledged to myself that I won't bitch at my subordinates unless 1) I'm in a position to, having been through the same hurdles 2) they genuinely screwed up.  I also don't believe in making things harder than they have to be for the sake of itself, because it's stupid, and it makes you very difficult to respect.  Thankfully for some unnamed individuals, I'm not dealing with them again.

 

[davidk]

So after that, what does playing "hardass" show?  There's something WAY better called "quiet professionalism" and "self control" which is much more common in those god-sent reg force instructors - something not often seen in these instructors who jack people up for nothing. This is a learning experience:  Being shouted at does not make you better at your craft, unless there's a valuable lesson being taught with it.

Don't be so quick to generalize. Your profile says you've been in for two and a half years. How many courses have you seen from an objective [read: not a candidate at the time] point of view? There are good and bad ways of teaching (and, by extension, running pt) that can be found in both the regs and the reserves. I've seen borderline abusive pt sessions , and what you call "quiet professionalism" and "self-control" by instructors from both components. Don't let this fall into another Regs vs. res thread, and stick to the topic at hand.

 

[2 Cdo]

I'm with CorporalMajor on this one... those staff sound like the typical Idiot "We wanna be super hardcore" types that unfortunatly seem to breed in meaford and similar places....

Sounds like a lot of whining here. Unless courses have changed tremendously in the last few years, the DS tends to get more sleep than candidates. The reasoning behind it is that they are more alert than you whilst training you. A little extra PT at opportune times never killed anyone and I found it to be a unifying tool for courses/sections whatever. In fact in 28 years of experience I find the candidates that bitch the most about "hardcore" instructors were usually the sub-par, bottom third candidates.

Have a nice day.

 

[OldSolduer]

Try an Infantry TQ 6B (Now DP 3B) at the age of 47. Not a li made oot of fun. It sure teaches you what you are made of. I'm made of sugar! haha
Or got to Ft Polk Lousiana and do a JRTC ex. 15 lbs in 21 days lost. Beat that Jenny Craig. :2c: ^-^

 

[CorporalMajor]

Don't be so quick to generalize. Your profile says you've been in for two and a half years. How many courses have you seen from an objective [read: not a candidate at the time] point of view? There are good and bad ways of teaching (and, by extension, running pt) that can be found in both the regs and the reserves. I've seen borderline abusive pt sessions , and what you call "quiet professionalism" and "self-control" by instructors from both components. Don't let this fall into another Regs vs. res thread, and stick to the topic at hand.

I'm speaking on my observations alone and the experiences/opinions my peers have shared with me, again and again.  I've seen lots of great Res teachers but by and large many of my peers share the same view, esp my coursemates for those two courses...every one of my coursemates thought the Reg and Res staff were like night and day.  I know the Regs vs Res debate quite well, and don't worry, I'm not biased towards either component, but this is what I have seen.  

I wasn't a very good candiate on BMQ-SQ, but I wasn't a whiner. I shut my mouth and did my job even though I screwed up every now and then.  (I don't think giving my opinion on leadership styles and posturing as I did now, constitutes whining either, but whatever). In fact, the ones who were better candiates than me whined a whole lot more.. I look back on it all of three years later, more mature, wiser and possibly doing my PLQ this summer, and IMO, that style of leadership isn't mine.  I personally don't see the purpose.  And if it works for them, great.  So I respectfully disagree. 



Back on track.  I recently made the mistake of judging a book by its cover. It looked nice outside today, and I went for a 5K jog.  Other people did it, why can't I.... well I found out later it was -20C with windchill.. boy did my lungs ever get it...

 

[Snaketnk]

Worst Experience

DP1 of course; Sunday roll call comes around, and as usual, most of the platoon is still a little dopey if not hung over. Our Sgt decides he didn't do enough PT during the weekend, and so we go on a 15k run, in the rain, up and down some pretty steep hills. I think 12 of us finished with the Sgt.

I Wouldn't exactly call it dreadful, I look back on all the "dreadful pt sessions" with nothing but a smile on my face.

On the bad leadership topic that's come up: DP1 Infantry is supposed to bring you near to (or over) the breaking point both physically and mentally. That's why the failure rate is sometimes over 50%, and almost always (over the last few years, bar a couple of exceptions) over 35-40%. It's not fair that the Staff get to sleep more, it's not fair that the Staff don't have to do station jobs, and it's not fair that they make you do PT after the field.  But guess what? They're not on course, you are. Take the difficult stuff for what it is: A chance at self-improvement. Just take it with a good attitude and you won't think so low of your instructors, you'll respect them for doing their job.

 

[dangerboy]

Worst Experience

It's not fair that the Staff get to sleep more, it's not fair that the Staff don't have to do station jobs, and it's not fair that they make you do PT after the field.  But guess what? They're not on course, you are. Take the difficult stuff for what it is: A chance at self-improvement. Just take it with a good attitude and you won't think so low of your instructors, you'll respect them for doing their job.

Just remember that the instructors are doing things that you are probably not aware of such as doing paperwork, there is alot of paperwork that is involved with a course, preparing for the next lecture that they have to teach. So even though you don't see them, chances are they are still working. Anyway enough of a hijack back to most dreadful  PT.

 

[stealthylizard]

It started with having to put on my PT gear.





That's it ushup:

I have to agree with this one.  I can't stand doing PT at the time, but feel great afterwards, except for today.  After missing PT for at least a month (2 weeks leave, and working in CQ the rest of the time), I felt dizzy and was seeing whirly things in my eyes, and it wasn't even that hard of a PT session.  I will have to try and get back into doing PT on my own time when missing out on it during the day.

 

[Thompson_JM]

Sounds like a lot of whining here. Unless courses have changed tremendously in the last few years, the DS tends to get more sleep than candidates. The reasoning behind it is that they are more alert than you whilst training you. A little extra PT at opportune times never killed anyone and I found it to be a unifying tool for courses/sections whatever. In fact in 28 years of experience I find the candidates that ***** the most about "hardcore" instructors were usually the sub-par, bottom third candidates.

Have a nice day.

TIme and a Place... thats all I'm saying.....  If it was the DS who rucked back with the Troops who did that, this would be Different in my opinion...  I dont know.... I see nothing wrong with pushing the Troops during training... but make it something worthwhile... Cack for the sake of Cack just makes the instructor look weak in my eyes.... Then again, I'm just a Mo' Trucker.... my trade doesnt require me to kick open doors and Kill things.... Just drive around and get shot at a lot.....  Different Job... maybe a Different Approach.... but the best instructors in my trade are the ones who dont need to rant and rave and play Stompy-Foot all the time....  and this is from the viewpoint having been taught by good and bad from the Reg and Res.

 

[mover1]

Going for a nice run. You take the car to  Kippenheim Weiller parking lot. Run to the Rhine,  You make it out and come on back. You can see the parking lot. There is the car.
MY smokes are in the car.
I can't wait to stop running to have a smoke. 
I am giving it all to keep with the group till we make the parking lot.
Damn we are passing the parking lot.
what the hell.
wait we are running to the north marg now..F#$%

Those were the worst periods of pt for me. When you saw what was supposed to be the end point. And ran right past it.

 

[CorporalMajor]

TIme and a Place... thats all I'm saying.....  If it was the DS who rucked back with the Troops who did that, this would be Different in my opinion...  I dont know.... I see nothing wrong with pushing the Troops during training... but make it something worthwhile... Cack for the sake of Cack just makes the instructor look weak in my eyes.... Then again, I'm just a Mo' Trucker.... my trade doesnt require me to kick open doors and Kill things.... Just drive around and get shot at a lot.....  Different Job... maybe a Different Approach.... but the best instructors in my trade are the ones who dont need to rant and rave and play Stompy-Foot all the time....  and this is from the viewpoint having been taught by good and bad from the Reg and Res.

Same here.  reading Snaketnk and dangerboy's posts, I will admit they have a defensible argument as well.  Instructing is difficult in itself. 
IMO it really is, at the end of the day, time and place, and perhaps trade as well.


Yet another dreadful PT experience:  Not knowing my limits on working up for BFT, and getting open blisters the size of golf balls. 

EDIT: Someone mentioned smoking.  Reminds me of the habit of the same name I had this summer.  It literally cut my cardiovascular work in half, and instantly.  I was running 7k up the Rideau Canal, from Carleton to U of O every other day and after sucking that smoke in, it was a struggle to do 2K.  I dropped that stuff almost instantly.  today I VERY RARELY smoke despite how oddly tempting the thought is.

 

[Teeps74]

Well, I was gonna post something funny... But frankly, this thread died with a fair bit o' whining from those that do not know.  Funny, how everyone has an expert opinion, even tho some are wearing uniforms fresh from the bags they came in yet.

First lesson that needs to be learned in Army life, more so in combat arms... Stress. If we do not teach you to survive something pissant like someone yelling at you for not having your damned hat on straight, just how the hell are you going to survive your first IED intiated TIC?

We do not teach you to handle stress by holding your hands, and whispering soothing and calming words into your ears. We teach you to handle stress, by putting you through stress. Regular and hard PT, jacking people up for dirt in the bottom of your utility pouch, station jobs, on top of studying for your PO check, yelling, rucking, sleepless nights... These are all training aids. The purpose of all this is to try to prevent you from turning into a snivelling cowering little creature the first time a gun is shot in anger near you.

If you are gonna whine and cry, about staff changing up, and stressing you with some PT because you were slacking off... I would suggest that you picked the wrong trade. We are currently at war... People are dying. This is a stressful job.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Sounds like a lot of whining here. Unless courses have changed tremendously in the last few years, the DS tends to get more sleep than candidates. The reasoning behind it is that they are more alert than you whilst training you. A little extra PT at opportune times never killed anyone and I found it to be a unifying tool for courses/sections whatever. In fact in 28 years of experience I find the candidates that ***** the most about "hardcore" instructors were usually the sub-par, bottom third candidates.

Have a nice day.

Agreed.  '96, Gagetown, I was staff (Sect 2 i/c) on a JNCO (OAS) course.  We were completing the 3 day defensive confirmation FTX out in Eniskillen (spelling?).  During the ex, candidates got MINIMAL sleep, as laid out in the TP, Standards, etc.  The section staff, however, did 12 hour shifts.  I was on the 1900-0700 rotation, my Sect Cmdr was 0700-1900.  The troops were griping about *us* getting sleep while they didn't.

I reminded them that I was not here to take the trg, but that I was on the receiving end when I was on CLC.

My job was to task and assess the Student Section Commander, not be part of defensive routine, etc. 

I don't tell pilots how to fly planes because I haven't done that job myself.  If you've never instructed before...yah.

 

[brihard]

We do not teach you to handle stress by holding your hands, and whispering soothing and calming words into your ears. We teach you to handle stress, by putting you through stress. Regular and hard PT, jacking people up for dirt in the bottom of your utility pouch, station jobs, on top of studying for your PO check, yelling, rucking, sleepless nights... These are all training aids.

Hm, I can't help but remember a short nap I as a young Pte once took behind a C9, and then the neat words you used to wake me up and ask where my gun was.

Ah, the memories.  ;D