MP's to start as Private, not Corporal... ?

[MILPO]

I have read more than enough ignorance about the MP trade in this thread that I can't even finish reading the full three pages.  A few posts at the start of the thread were all i needed to read.

First off, there is nothing wrong with promoting us to Cpl upon graduating from basic.  We all paid our own way through college, which was a requirement (and is the only police service that requires a college diploma in Canada) of the CFMP upon enrolment.  Being payed a Cpl's salary for this requirement, and previous experience as some of us do have, is what it should be and should remain if the requirements are met for the sole reason of it being a REAL police officer job, with REAL peace officer status just like REAL police officers. 

Secondly, compare our PT with any other police service.  Given, the physical testing upon enrolment isn't exactly like that of the pursuit restraint circut, PARE test and whatever other tests are out there, we undergo over 9 months of training to become a police officer whereas any other police service trains max. 6 months in Canada.  If i break that down, that means BMQ and 6 months of police academy training, which includes physical training.  So after nine months of consistent PT, I would think that we are by all means physically assessed appropiately throughout our initial training period.  So ask an Ontario Police Service member how much PT was emphasized throughout their 3 month training period and compare that to 9 months of training.  As well, we attend the MPAC and go through a series of testing and interview, unlike many other police services.

Thirdly, we are a professional group and do our job with pride and integrity, as you will find our civilian counterparts do.  We are trained to a high standard, alongside all civilian police services.  Our job demands patience, respect, integrity and overall common sense when dealing with our community, even when it entails dealing with difficult people.  The latter, most of us have it and display it on a regular basis.

If you have a gripe about the MP trade fine, but do us all a favor and don't complain about your personal issues and hate on for police officers.  To a certain Sig person, I don't know if you are just trying to get a rise out of some of us, but your posts lack respect, intelligence and substance.  Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but enough of the MP bashing, we are all part of the same team when it comes down to it in the end.

 

[canadianblue]

To a certain Sig person, I don't know if you are just trying to get a rise out of some of us, but your posts lack respect, intelligence and substance.  Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but enough of the MP bashing, we are all part of the same team when it comes down to it in the end.

Not sure if your talking about me, but I wasn't bashing the MP's, I thought that I was defending them and saying they did a great job. Unless I made a typo while making those comments.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Not sure if your talking about me, but I wasn't bashing the MP's, I thought that I was defending them and saying they did a great job. Unless I made a typo while making those comments.

He's probably talking about the banned one, Hoover, who's real name is not Hoover and is no relation to the real one by that name in your trade. That make sense?

 

[Kat Stevens]

As an example in 04 there was an armed robbery at the Credit Union on base here in Edmonton, the suspect got away with the most cash taken in a robbery in Edmonton's history. Not only did the NIS solve the case, get the bad guy and re-covered the money, but in doing so also they solved several other crimes that occurred within the city of Edmonton and in the county (RCMP jurisdiction).

They also have cute-as-a-button goth chick forensic genius, and an eccentric old English boarding school type ME who loves to share his pointless stories.  Oh, let's not forget the hottie MOSAD exchange student, rowr.  I love the way they bust up all those AQ sleeper cells, it's wicked awesome!   

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Psssssssst Kat, you are thnkng of the show NCIS

 

[FastEddy]

I have read more than enough ignorance about the MP trade in this thread that I can't even finish reading the full three pages.  A few posts at the start of the thread were all i needed to read.


If you have a gripe about the MP trade fine, but do us all a favor and don't complain about your personal issues and hate on for police officers.  To a certain Sig person, I don't know if you are just trying to get a rise out of some of us, but your posts lack respect, intelligence and substance.  Sure you're entitled to your opinion, but enough of the MP bashing, we are all part of the same team when it comes down to it in the end.

Actually, the offending post was contributed by "Infidel-6". The "Sigs person" has always been supported of the MP Branch and is usually complimentary.

Cheers.

 

[FastEddy]

They also have cute-as-a-button goth chick forensic genius, and an eccentric old English boarding school type ME who loves to share his pointless stories.  Oh, let's not forget the hottie MOSAD exchange student, rowr.  I love the way they bust up all those AQ sleeper cells, it's wicked awesome!   

Regarding the above, I'm not quite sure how you associate it with the solving of the Edmonton Case.

I presume your meaning is meant to be,  Cute,  Humorous,  Sarcastic or just plain Stupid.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Get knotted

 

[FastEddy]

Get knotted

I guess that eliminates the first two.

 

[garb811]

Man...you know the thread is done when someone gets flamed for an obvious har-har followed by a 

 

[17thRecceSgt]

First off, there is nothing wrong with promoting us to Cpl upon graduating from basic.  We all paid our own way through college, which was a requirement (and is the only police service that requires a college diploma in Canada) of the CFMP upon enrolment.  Being payed a Cpl's salary for this requirement, and previous experience as some of us do have, is what it should be and should remain if the requirements are met for the sole reason of it being a REAL police officer job, with REAL peace officer status just like REAL police officers. 

Oddly enough, there is a wholeeeeeeeeeeeee bunch of Privates serving in A-stan right now that are earning their pay in ways you don't, and not as much as some newbie MP Cpl that has zero T.I. and just finished an Academy.  I consider those troops to have REAL jobs, and be REAL soldiers, and the bullets, IEDs, RPGs, and other threats over there are as REAL as it gets.

If you have to substansiate the auto-Cpl pay, using the words REAL infers things that are not on, IMHO.

Oh, and ya remember what MP means.

MILITARY Police.

So stop comparing to civie cops.  Different basket of eggs IMO.

Ya, I have had to deal with some of these Insta-MP-Cpl's here in Halifax, and when they realize YOU are right, and they ARE subject to the CSD because they ARE military, and they then, ohh let's say, call you by your rank, put their friggin headdress on outside when told to, when outside of their patrol car and just standing around, by a Snr NCO...well, my advice to them is to remember what the M in MP is.

And thats my 2 cents.  Btw, how long have you been in??  Any military experience before being an MP?

 

[garb811]

First off, there is nothing wrong with promoting us to Cpl upon graduating from basic.  We all paid our own way through college, which was a requirement (and is the only police service that requires a college diploma in Canada) of the CFMP upon enrolment.  Being payed a Cpl's salary for this requirement, and previous experience as some of us do have, is what it should be and should remain if the requirements are met for the sole reason of it being a REAL police officer job, with REAL peace officer status just like REAL police officers. 

This painfully illustrates the sense of entitlement which is currently bringing everyone down on the Branch and generating talk of swollen egos and heads. 

Yes, to be recruited as an MP someone requires a 2 year college diploma and yes, they have gone through a stringent and competitive selection process to make it through the door as well but guess what?  Once those recruits are in the door they do not have a skill set which enables them to perform the duties of a MP right away.  As you’ve illustrated, they require 9 months of training before they are even eligible to start really learning their trade by going out and conducting their duties in the real world vice the canned scenarios and lectures of the Academy.  Even after graduation they require close and continuous supervision throughout the Provisional Employment Period before they “should” be totally let off the leash and allowed to operate under normal supervision.  At the end of the day, Corporal is a rank, not a pay level.  For the vast majority of CF members it represents a period of dedicated service during which time they not only become proficient in their trade but also learn about and integrate into the Profession of Arms and shows they (should) have the requisite knowledge and skills to perform the first level of leadership and supervision within the CF.  It should not be used as a recruiting incentive to entice untrained people to join the MP Branch, or any other Branch for that matter, and doing so lessens the value of the rank and, as seen, brings ridicule and derision to those who have been shake and baked.  IF a member has previous service, knowledge and skills which allows them to perform their duties at the Cpl level then by all means use accelerated promotion as a method to entice people back into the Branch.  If not then they should follow the career path every other untrained applicant to the CF does and look forward to the day that they acquire the skills, knowledge and training to finally earn the right to receive the promotion to Cpl and Spec Pay. 

By the way, the reason the promotion is being given has SFA to do with it being a REAL police officer job, with REAL peace officer status just like REAL police officers.  It’s a recruiting tool, plain and simple, just like it is for every other trade I listed previously.  The only real difference I can think of is unlike most of those other trades where the recruits being promoted have a good base of practical knowledge and skills to draw on from their civilian courses, the average MP recruit brings lots of “book learning” yet very little practical, hands on, police training, skills and experience to the table…

I have read more than enough ignorance about the MP trade in this thread that I can't even finish reading the full three pages.  A few posts at the start of the thread were all i needed to read.

After this if anyone else actually bothered to read your post you would be extremely lucky…  Writing things like this is not the best way to try to sway people to your viewpoint because if you can’t respect their opinion enough to read it, no matter how much you disagree with it, why should they bother to read yours?

 

[17thRecceSgt]

This painfully illustrates the sense of entitlement which is currently bringing everyone down on the Branch and generating talk of swollen egos and heads. 

Yes, to be recruited as an MP someone requires a 2 year college diploma and yes, they have gone through a stringent and competitive selection process to make it through the door as well

I am CT'ing to 226 (ATIS Tech).  I have 3 years of college in tech stuff.  I have 17 years in the CF as of the 25th of July.  I have gone thru many things, and after being WO qualified (6B and SLC) in my current MOC, I am giving it all up, changing MOCs, and becoming Cpl Bloggins again.  So someone with no previous experience is looked at the same as me...because I will be dropping down to Cpl shortly, and with no gripes about it, why wouldn't I be?  I have T.I. in that MOC. 

I don't get the "well, I went to college and had to be selected" stuff I here zero T.I. MPs talking about.  Oddly enough, its the direct-entry ones that go on about this in my experience, and they also seem to be the ones comparing themselves to "civilian police forces". 

MP.  Military Police.  Don't see the word "Toronto Metro" in there...so I don't get that mentality...

Goodpost MP 00161.  I think you did some real damage-control there.  +1.

Mud

 

[garb811]

OK, here is the official word from a few months ago regarding the state of things with starting out in the Branch.  My apologies for not posting it sooner, life happened and other things took priority but I think its important to get the official word into the thread so potential recruits know the score. 

PROMOTIONS
- New MP recruits will be enrolled as Privates.
- Upon completion of BMQ, they will receive an automatic promotion to Cpl

SPEC PAY
- Any MP currently receiving spec pay at the time of the change would have continued to receive it.
- To bring the Branch in line with CF pay policy, Spec Pay will not be granted until the member has successfully completed all of the requirements of DP2 (old QL4 and QL5A).  This means that upon promotion to Cpl at the end of BMQ the member will paid in the Standard Trade Group and they will remain there until they graduate the DP2 course in Borden, which could (should?) take up to 3 years after they complete DP1 if historical trends continue.
- In order to proceed on DP2 training, the member must have successfully completed the PEP program.  For us old timers, this is now equivalent to QL4.

While this will not fix all of the issues we have discussed, particularly that caused by the automatic promotion to Cpl, it does rationalise the process somewhat and brings the Branch in line with the rest of the CF, at least with regard to the granting of Spec Pay.

The really good news, in my book anyways, is there is now a hammer to use with PEPs who do not wish to get through the process in a timely fashion or when it becomes obvious the member is unable to do their duties in the real world.  As PEP wasn't a formal qualification but more of a check in the box type thing, it became a huge problem when someone either didn't want to complete the process, or heaven forbid, we needed to try to unload them.  Of course, the onus is now also on the supervisors to ensure that they don’t unfairly impede the PEPs progress as well.

EDIT:  Spelling

 

[NINER-SIX]

A MP Pte in a guardhouse......those were the days...the last real one I saw was ages ago ......Now you can walk into the guardhouse and understand that the Cpl your talking has been in the trade for more then his first day now....

 

[MILPO]

I am CT'ing to 226 (ATIS Tech).  I have 3 years of college in tech stuff.  I have 17 years in the CF as of the 25th of July.  I have gone thru many things, and after being WO qualified (6B and SLC) in my current MOC, I am giving it all up, changing MOCs, and becoming Cpl Bloggins again.  So someone with no previous experience is looked at the same as me...because I will be dropping down to Cpl shortly, and with no gripes about it, why wouldn't I be?  I have T.I. in that MOC. 

I don't get the "well, I went to college and had to be selected" stuff I here zero T.I. MPs talking about.  Oddly enough, its the direct-entry ones that go on about this in my experience, and they also seem to be the ones comparing themselves to "civilian police forces". 

MP.  Military Police.  Don't see the word "Toronto Metro" in there...so I don't get that mentality...

Goodpost MP 00161.  I think you did some real damage-control there.  +1.

Mud

It's not all about direct entry having college.  It's about being paid equivalent to our civi counterparts.  We do the exact same policing job as civis, have the same status plus have military specific duties, which is why you may hear it being compared to civi forces, not limited to Toronto Metro.  Yes, we all understood we were joining the military police and to some who have been in the military for a long time prefer to throw the big M point at us direct hires in an attempt to "keep the policing aspect from going to our heads" or so it seems. 

Domestic policing, being our "secondary duty", is a good way to gain experience to be utilized in the field/overseas.  What is so wrong with being compensated comparably to a civi force for doing the same job and more?  I like the military and the police part of the job, the latter mostly, hence the big M and big P....

 

[17thRecceSgt]

But not everyone can be paid equivalent to civie counterparts.  I can tell you, there is difference, to most people I know, from the direct entry Cpls to the ones that are VOTs/remusters who have been around the block and have a smick about the running of the military...

Good points though, maybe I was painting with too big of a brush...

I have dealt with a few "quick pick" Cpls that had to be reminded that they were also...subject to the CSD  ;D.

MRM

 

[X-army-cst]

Good day folks. I know this thread is a bit dead but....Yes there is an MP in Depot and I met and was involved in a training scenario with him. 1 MP out of dozens of instructors. It makes very good sense there are police forces represebted all over the map in Depot. It gives a good flavour to the training and many varied experiences to bring to a recruit and make them better for it.
MP's are real police and do perform some real good work don't forget it. It is just that it isn't as often as their civilian counter parts. Some folks thinks this makes them less of a police officer. Wel that means that a person in a small town is less than a guy from Surrey? Certainly not.
Yeah in my time if the CF(20yrs) I didn't like MP's..yeah spoil sports and ruining our fun. Short sighted..sure. Understandable of course...same way people who say that they don't like police are ALWYAS involved in criminal activity, almost always anyway. They know what an FPS is let's put it that way.

Plus MP's do ARMY shit..that no-one in civy world does.

So good on you MP guys I would love to work with you one day in my new career in the RCMP..I think we will see with our re-newed co-operation between RCMP and CF.
Here's hoping! 

Take care and stay safe my fellow officers.

Andrew EX sig pig and now RCMP Cst.

 

[ArmyRick]

I don't agree with MP, veh tech or any other trade getting CPL immediately. CPL is a rank based on qualification and expirience, not civie college diplomas.

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

Regular MP members recommend NDA charges up through the chain of command. However they can lay Criminal Code Charges in the civilian courts without the approval of the chain if an offence has been committed.

Not sure where you got that one, MP assigned to duties with NIS and only NIS may lay a charge against a military mbr in respect to a service offence; criminal code offences are for the most part laid under sec 130 of the NDA (miscilainious offences under the CCC) and generally (if serious enough) prosecuted at court martial.