MP's Want To Take Hizbollah Off Terror List

[big bad john]

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/08/21/hezbollah-mps.html

Lebanon PM chastises Ottawa on conflict
Last Updated Mon, 21 Aug 2006 21:33:56 EDT
CBC News
Lebanon's prime minister criticized Canada's response to the conflict in the Middle East on Monday, as Canadian opposition MPs touring the region suggested Ottawa should rethink the way it deals with the militant group Hezbollah.

Liberal MP Boris Wrzesnewskyj says he is concerned that Canada's list of terrorist organizations doesn't differentiate between a group's militant and political wings. (CBC) Liberal MP Boris Wrzesnewskyj, New Democrat MP Peggy Nash and Bloc Québécois MP Maria Mourani are on a fact-finding mission to southern Lebanon as Israeli troops continue to withdraw from the region following 34 days of conflict.

The area was heavily bombed during Israel's air assault, which was sparked by a cross-border raid by Lebanon-based Hezbollah militants on July 12. Most attacks by Israel and Hezbollah ended with a UN-brokered ceasefire on Aug. 14.

On Monday, the MPs met with Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora, who criticized Prime Minister Stephen Harper's initial assertion that Israel's actions during the conflict were justified and a "measured" response.

"I disagree, because the whole world, even those who are … supporting Israel … they said this is a disproportionate action," said Siniora. "So this is not a measured response at all."

Wrzesnewskyj, who represents a Toronto riding, said the visit has shown him how integrated Hezbollah is into Lebanese society. In the interest of peace, he said Canada should reconsider how it deals with groups on its list of banned organizations, which includes Hezbollah.

In a phone interview with CBC News on Sunday night, Wrzesnewskyj stressed that he considers Hezbollah a terrorist organization, but said he is concerned that Ottawa's list of terror groups doesn't differentiate between the militant and political wings of the party.

"Hezbollah has a political wing, they have members of parliament, two [cabinet] ministers," said Wrzesnewskyj.

"You want to encourage the politicians of this military organization, you want to encourage the political wing, so that the centre of gravity shifts to them."

Wrzesnewskyj compared the situation in Lebanon to the decades of sectarian violence by the Irish Republican Army.

"If there wasn't a possibility for London to negotiate with Sinn Fein [the IRA's political party], we'd still have bombings in Northern Ireland," he said.

Canada's legislation should be amended to allow contact with the political arms of banned organizations, he said.

Banning Hezbollah 'not helpful,' Nash says

Wrzesnewskyj's comments were echoed by Nash, who is also from Toronto. She said many Lebanese regard Hezbollah as resistance fighters.

"It's just not helpful to label them a terrorist organization," said Nash.

"If the political parties can figure out a way to work with Hezbollah and try to get along internally, then we should perhaps take a cue from that."

On Monday, Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day was critical of their comments, and said the government had no plans to change its position.

"I can't think of a suggestion that would be more harmful to a possible peace and to the hopes of peace than to encourage Hezbollah," said Day.

Mourani, of the Bloc Québécois, wouldn't say whether she favours taking Hezbollah off the list or not.

Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro withdrew from the fact-finding mission at the last minute, citing security concerns.

New Democratic Party MP Peggy Nash in Lebanon: 'If the [Lebanese] political parties can figure out a way to work with Hezbollah and try to get along internally, then we should perhaps take a cue from that.' (CBC) The tour was arranged by the National Council on Canada-Arab Relations, which criticized Harper for failing to demand an immediate ceasefire to end the conflict.

The council's executive director, Mazen Chouaib, said the trip was intended to give the MPs another view on what happened in Lebanon.

"Our politicians are getting the talking points from the Israel lobby," he said.

Illegal to work with Hezbollah

In 2002, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien's government placed Hezbollah on its list of banned terrorist entities following weeks of intense lobbying by the Canadian Alliance party and Jewish groups. The ban included Hezbollah's military and social wings.

Under that designation, it is illegal for people in Canada to work with or donate money to Hezbollah. Canadian authorities can seize any assets linked to the organization.

Interim Liberal leader Bill Graham was foreign affairs minister when Hezbollah was added to the Canadian list. He initially argued that Hezbollah's social arm was a legitimate charity and functioned independently of the military wing.

Graham later reversed his position, citing media reports that quoted Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah urging Palestinians to expand suicide bombings worldwide.

Hezbollah protested Ottawa's move, claiming it was the victim of a propaganda campaign. A subsequent investigation by CBC-TV couldn't confirm Nasrallah made the remarks.

 

[a_majoor]

Interim Liberal leader Bill Graham was foreign affairs minister when Hezbollah was added to the Canadian list. He initially argued that Hezbollah's social arm was a legitimate charity and functioned independently of the military wing.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Anyone who wants us to believe Hezbollah's "political wing" is independent of the "military wing" rather than a front organization is free to provide detailed evidence to the "beyond a reasonable doubt" level, otherwise they are wasting bandwidth.

Independent armies, militias, paramilitiaries and so on afilliated with "political", religious or ideological movements are signs of a challenge to the power of the State (not to be confused with criminal gangs like the Hell's Angels, which need a functioning State to feed off of)

 

[North Star]

All the political and social wings of Hezbollah are is a means to conduct Psy Ops on behalf of the Military Wing. Anyone who feels otherwise is living in a dreamworld and should take a trip to southern Lebanon, where billboards proclaim the "contributions" of suicide bombers and school textbooks praise the institution of martyrdom.

I agree that this is ridiculous political posturing meant to harm the PM, but when you repeat a lie over and over...

 

[Kirkhill]

I wouldn't worry about it too much.  The Quebec Lebanese Christian MP from the Bloc Quebecois generally limited her comments and DID NOT (AFAIK) call for recognition of Hezbollah.  The Liberal and NDP twits have successfully shoved their parties into full scale damage control and have been back pedalling as fast as they can.  A particular concern for the Liberals as they still try to figure out who they are, where they are going and whether or not there is more chance of winning via keeping Jews or Arabs happy.

Meanwhile the Conservatives continue to sing from one song book, generally keeping a sizeable minority onside with them and winning the occasiional friend.  In Canada it only takes 40% to win.

Steve doesn't seem too bothered these days and there isn't a lot of noise, nor are there a lot of brown envelopes, coming out of caucus these days.  Bureaucrats, especially PWGSC types, are another matter.

 

[aluc]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1156241411213&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News


Hezbollah like Nazis: Tory MP
Aug. 22, 2006. 09:50 AM
CANADIAN PRESS

OTTAWA — A Tory MP has compared the terror group Hezbollah to the German Nazi party of the 1930s.

Jason Kenney says the fact that Hezbollah has a politicial wing doesn't change the fact that it is a terrorist group dedicated to the eradication of Israel.

He says Germany in the 1930s had a political party which ran in elections and provided social services but it was also dedicated to violence against the Jewish people.

Kenney says that the decision by three opposition MPs — a Liberal, a New Democrat and a Bloc member — to visit Lebanon this week offers political legitimacy to Hezbollah.

He says they seem to feel it is possible to negotiate with a group that is not interested in peace.

There is nothing to negotiate with an organization motivated by hate, he says.

 

[Centurian1985]

Article I read today about MP Boris Wrzesnewskyj basically has him retracting his former comments... and a leading Liberal critic plans to discuss his comments with him at the soonest opportunity... 

 

[time expired]

Maybe the arabs are right,We could maybe Isreal has got to go, a solution would be to ethnical clean part of
Germany , something we should have done in 45 , after all they are the ones who finally convinced
the Jews that the didnt have a future in any of the so called civilised worlds counties.We could still pull it
off , the Bundeswehr would be no problem they couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag even if their government would let them.Their training contains something called "Innere fuerung" which mean if you
hear the sound of guns go the other way. Just a thought.
                    regards

 

[aesop081]

 

[Kirkhill]

Run away!!!!  Flee!!! Flee!!!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Here's another thought, welcome to the warning system.

 

[Franko]

Maybe the arabs are right,We could maybe Isreal has got to go, a solution would be to ethnical clean part of
Germany , something we should have done in 45 , after all they are the ones who finally convinced
the Jews that the didnt have a future in any of the so called civilised worlds counties.We could still pull it
off , the Bundeswehr would be no problem they couldnt fight their way out of a paper bag even if their government would let them.Their training contains something called "Innere fuerung" which mean if you
hear the sound of guns go the other way. Just a thought.
                    regards

Someone is hitting the old crack pipe hard tonight aren't we?

Listen bub....hate mongering isn't taken very lightly here. Better just leave.

Regards

 

[Infanteer]

Ok, aside from the sepukku we just watched (nothing to see, move along), I have to agree with Mr Kenny's assertion.  Although I don't believe it is quite accurate to paint the entire organization of Hezbollah as a terrorist group (it's a big organization and there are many people with a legitimate reason to not be pleased with Israel over the last 25 years), I don't believe it is in our interest to do as the Aussies and Brits did and give any credibility to the political wing, even if it doesn't directly take part in terrorist acts, unless it drops its open policy of the destruction of Israel.  I believe this was the tactic being used with Hamas when it took over the PA legislature.  Want to enjoy normalized relations?  Show some normal behaviour.

 

[big bad john]

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060822/lebanon_canada_060823/20060823?hub=TopStories

MP Wrzesnewskyj resigns over Mideast comments
Updated Wed. Aug. 23 2006 2:29 PM ET

CTV.ca News Staff

Embattled Liberal MP Boris Wrzesnewskyj has resigned as deputy foreign affairs critic following the furore over comments he made about the Middle East crisis, CTV News has learned.

CTV's Graham Richardson told Newsnet that Wrzesnewskyj tendered his resignation on Wednesday. His resignation was accepted.

During a fact-finding mission in Lebanon this week, Wrzesnewskyj suggested Canada should be more open to talking to Hezbollah.

Those comments prompted Liberal leadership hopefuls Scott Brison and Carolyn Bennett to demand Wrzesnewskyj's resignation, saying his comments were "unacceptable."

The comments quickly became the central topic of the three-day Liberal caucus retreat. which was supposed to be a strategy session for the upcoming session of Parliament.

All 10 candidates rejected the comments, including Wrzesnewskyj's pick for leader -- Gerard Kennedy.

At a news conference Tuesday, Tory MP Jason Kenney, parliamentary secretary to the prime minister, blasted Wrzesnewskyj's comments, calling them nothing less than a sign of support for terrorist groups.

"Their idea of a balanced approach is one where Israel is always wrong," said Kenney.  "This represents a totally irresponsible approach to foreign security policy."

Wrzesnewskyj, who was among three opposition MPs on the Mideast mission, said Monday he favours changing a Canadian law that forbids contact with known terrorist organizations.

He said the law undermines efforts to obtain lasting peace between Israel and Hezbollah guerrillas.

Wrzesnewskyj is also quoted in some newspapers as saying Hezbollah should be taken off Ottawa's official list of terrorist organizations.

However, Wrzesnewskyj later denied those reports.

"I've said all along that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization and will continue to be,'' he said. "Where I have difficulty is with the legislation that says a group on the list cannot be communicated with.''

On Tuesday, Kenney compared the terror group Hezbollah to the German Nazi party of the 1930s, which had candidates that ran in elections but also made violence against Jewish people its chief aim.

He said just because Hezbollah has a political wing doesn't mean it isn't a terrorist group.

Kenney said there is nothing to negotiate with an organization motivated by hate, and decried the Liberal MPs for even suggesting it.

"The Liberal Party of Canada cannot claim to be prepared to be ready to govern Canada if they can't establish a coherent position on such a clear cut issue as the terrorist nature of Hezbollah."

Liberal Opposition Leader Bill Graham issued a statement late Monday that did not refer directly to the Wrzesnewskyj controversy, but affirmed his party's commitment to keeping Hezbollah on the official terror list.

"The Liberal Party of Canada ... originally listed Hezbollah as a terrorist organization under Canadian law and ... we still strongly support keeping Hezbollah on that list.

"Any suggestion to the contrary does not reflect the official position of our party.''

But Graham also took a shot at the Conservatives on Tuesday saying that at least, unlike the government, Liberals are free to speak.

"You'll be able to go out and interview them... nobody's got them locked up in a bus and thrown away the key, the way (it was done) at a recent caucus of the Conservative," said Graham.

However, leadership candidate Bob Rae did issue some reservations about the lack of party unison on key issues.

"I do worry as a potential leader about the amount of freelancing that's going on. There does need to be some discipline and some cohesiveness," said Rae.

The visit by MPs, including Bloc Quebecois Maria Mourani and New Democrat MP Peggy Nash, was organized by the National Council on Canada Arab-Relations.

It was supposed to be an all-party affair until Conservative MP Dean Del Mastro backed out, citing security reasons.

The MPs visited the hard-hit towns of Qana, Bint Jbeil and Aytaroun. Qana was the scene of the single deadliest attack. An Israeli missile destroyed a building where civilians had been hiding, killing 28.

With files from The Canadian Press

 

[GAP]

I notice that Jack baby is awfully silent about his wayward child fool

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I notice that Jack baby is awfully silent about his wayward child fool

....and he's not saying anything about Brian Masse and Joe Comartin, two of his NDP MPs in Windsor. Both have come out in the press denouncing the current policy and demanding status for Hezbollah.

Now, that other ship of fools.........

I also find it disturbing that Liberal MP Boris Wrzesnewskyj claims he never made the statement, but is willing to tender his resignation. Must be for the good of the party? Way to take one for the team buddy!! That's what we need our politicians to do, stand on their principles. One less bigoted liar with a portfolio. Political cannabalism at it's best.

Of course Graham says that anyone can say what they want, and always have. I guess, except for gay marriage, gun control and others where they were whipped by the party to toe the line or else. Free to speak? Free to resign too I guess!! ;D

Of course these are the same guys berating Harper for doing the same as Chretin and missing the aids conference.

Rudderless and without a platform and heading for a night of the long knives. I can only hope that while they're bumbling into the dark, they're stupid enough to call the government on no confidence and find themselves in an election they don't have a leader for.

 

[1feral1]

Glad to see this quack got his just rewards!

+1 for the people of Canada!


Cheers,

Wes

 

[Centurian1985]

Glad to see this quack got his just rewards!
+1 for the people of Canada!

Cheers,
Wes

Are you referring to the MP or or the guy who just got warned?  ;D

 

[1feral1]

Are you referring to the MP or or the guy who just got warned?  ;D

Boris mate.

Wes

 

[Blindspot]

Liberals accuse Kenney of hypocrisy for attending rally for terrorist group
Thu Aug 24, 7:24 PM ET
The Canadian Press


VANCOUVER (CP) - Liberals accused Prime Minister Stephen Harper's parliamentary secretary of hypocrisy Thursday after reports he attended a rally organized by Iranian supporters of a banned terrorist group.

"Is that a double standard?" asked Liberal MP Denis Coderre of Jason Kenney's attendance at the rally. Said interim Liberal leader Bill Graham: "I think it's so hypocritical when you heard the words that came out of his mouth a couple of days ago about the observations made about one of our members and then you find he himself is standing there embracing a terrorist group."

Coderre couldn't disguise his delight Thursday at news Kenney was photographed at the April rally.

The picture appears on the website of the National Council of Resistance of Iran, the political wing of the PMOI, or People's Mojahedin Organization of Iran.

The PMOI is one of the names used by the MEK, or Mujaheedin-e-Khalq, an armed Iranian rebel group formally designated as a terrorist organization by the governments of Canada, the United States and the European Union. The Canadian government put the group on its official terror list in May 2005.

Kenney is shown addressing an April 6 rally on Parliament Hill and is quoted as welcoming participants "on his own behalf as well as the prime minister."

In an interview, Kenney said he was "completely unaware of the context as it presented here, even though we had done our due diligence."

But Kenney has been ruthless with Liberal gaffes on the Middle East conflict.

He slammed Coderre for taking part in a peace rally at which Hezbollah flags were raised.

And on Tuesday, he compared a trio of opposition MPs who visited Lebanon and who called for a dialogue with Hezbollah to those who tried to appease the Nazis during the Second World War.

On Thursday, Coderre accused Kenney of indulging in "demagogy against me" over the peace rally even though Coderre said he had denounced the show of support for Hezbollah "right away on the spot."

"A terrorist group is a terrorist group so I'm expecting Jason Kenney, who likes to play politics and who's as subtle as Barney Rubble in politics, he should do better than that."

Coderre called on Kenney to apologize for the event and to denounce the terrorist group.

Graham said he wasn't at all surprised to hear of Kenney's participating in the Iranian rally.

"It's a classic example of Mr. Kenney's complete disregard for what he says for one group and then says another thing to another group."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Umm, what the hell? Someone just came down with Foot-in-Mouth disease. As much as I hate to say it, ignorance is only an excuse for stupidity.

 

[time expired]

Hi, Im the guy who got the verbal , and rather than try to explain what that post meant ,  I am not sure
myself anymore. I will explain how it came to be posted , I had been watching a collection of talking
heads on German TV and the theme was the Bundeswehrs non participation in the UNs peacekeeping
force for Lebenon , the participants , left wing politicos and journalists of the same political stripe ,
concluded that this was a great idea as this war was Isreals and George Bushs fault anyway.To keep from
gagging during this demonstation of moral cowardise I drank more good french Cognac than was good
for me and the title of this thread was the straw that broke the camels back and the Grumpy Old Man
syndrom took over. Once again I apologise to all who were somehow offended.
                              Regards