Muslim girls allowed private swim test

[Trinity]

Right.  I get it.  If my opinion isn't politically correct, then you are entitled to call me a racist.

Good for you! 

Read my post.

I said you SOUND like a racist.  I never said you WERE.

They are Canadian.  You... sound more like a racist.

I then stated it was the BS of political correctness that was bothering you.

What you are upset with is the politically correct BS that is being thrown at us.

Thus, you aren't a racist despite SOUNDING LIKE ONE, but you are upset of the political BS.


Now.. how did you put it in your last post...??

Good for you! 

right..  Learn to read...  Good for you! 


EDIT...  incidentally... you failed to answer my questions about how YOU were affected and forced
to change and WHO "THEY" are that forced us to change.  It's easier to deflect the questions by attacking
me than to actually put thought behind your opinion.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have to agree with MRM. It looked like a cheap shot by playing with words. A cheap shot none the less.

 

[Trinity]

I have to agree with MRM. It looked like a cheap shot by playing with words. A cheap shot none the less.

One can sound like a racist without being one. 

If I ever came off sounding racist, I would want to know because I'm not. 
He sounded racist to me.  I call it like I see it.  But, I also explained afterwards
what I thought was the problem.  If I wanted to bait him, I wouldn't have done
the second part, and I would have done it much better

 

[Fishbone Jones]

One can sound like a racist without being one. 

One can also sound like a sanctimonious prig..........without being one

 

[HItorMiss]

Although some points are valid, Trinity makes a good point on that fact that Society in Canada is geared for White Christians. We made and continue to make the rules in fact allot of the concern is stuff we have now done to ourselves, In fact lobby away all you like unless your getting the majority of "white male" MP's on your side your not going to pass your standard of living or what have you to make it rule.

Now the real question is, is why are you so adverse to equal treatment for equal reasons?

 

[Trinity]

One can also sound like a sanctimonious prig..........without being one

sanc·ti·mo·ni·ous Pronunciation (sngkt-mn-s)
adj.
Feigning piety or righteousness: "a solemn, unsmiling, sanctimonious old iceberg that looked like he was waiting for a vacancy in the Trinity" Mark Twain.

The irony... is my name is in the definition...

Hey, I work hard at being sanctimonious until now when I had to look it up!

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I tend to think of my way of life as a Canadian way of life.  I think I represent a certain percentage of the Canadian population.  I think all of these "little minor" things aren't minor when you add them all up.  Allow me to use some examples.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060302/scc_sikh_dagger_060302/20060302/

1.  The recent ruling where Sikh's are allowed to carry their ceremonial daggers to schools.  Granted it their religion.  However, I am sure if had a 16 year old son who went to school with a 9 inch belt knife on his hip...right.  So, we allow the weapon in for this group, but not for that group.  You can honestly justify to me that this is somehow "equal treatment'?  If I belonged to some far-fetched religious group that carried "ceremonial 12 guage shotguns" and I moved into your community, and our "religion" smoked "ceremonial happy-grass" before we were allowed to carry our "ceremonial shotguns", I am sure everyone would just say "its ok, its their religion".   Yes this is a ludicris example, however, I think the point I am trying to make is that the rules don't apply equally to all Canadians, and I think that is wrong.  

Yes, you are very correct is saying that I am tired of the politically correct BS.  It is things like in the link above that make me stop and say "what are we letting happen to our great country?".

Do I think people should expect to abide by our laws, traditions, and way of life when they come here?  I sure do.  

Is this "little" incident going to change Canada?  No.  It is a "1".  The Sikh ceremonial dagger is a "1" as well.  Like many other "1"s, on their own they are relatively insignificant...however...1+1+1+1....eventually is a big number.

I do also believe that there are many many many more people out there who "honestly" think along the same lines I do.  Why don't they speak out honestly?  

Because people will label them with some word like racist, or KKK, or something similar.  They have gotten to the point where they are afraid to speak out.  Because it is politically incorrect to do so.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

From a PM earlier today...

If you stand behind what you pm'd me

PUT IT IN THE THREAD....

I would at least respect you for that.

Sure I disagree, not its not an attack if you read carefully as
I had to point out my next post.

But.. telling me in a pm.. is cowardly in my opinion.

If you are going to stand by your opinion.. the thread awaits.

Fair enough.  Here is my PM.  I certainly hope this, in fact, earns the respect you speak of. 

"They" to me are any group that has forced some Canadians to stop doing things, such as singing O Canada, or having to call it a Holiday Tree, etc etc.  If I thought it was Muslims that were solely responsible for this, I would have said Muslims.  I said "they" as a generic term meaning "anyone that is a part of this". 

If by saying, I think we over-accomadate in this country, and that I am not happy with how much accomadating we do, or by saying go find your own beach that no one is allowed on if there is Muslim women there, or pool, that does not make me a racist.  Quite an accusation to say I sound like on, because I have an opinion, voiced it, and you disagreed.  It would be equally tasteless, IMHO, for me to call you anti-Canadian for your opinion.  Would it not?

I do not dislike people who are immigrants, or different color skin, I do however dislike it when I read stuff like Wes's comments about a group of angry men threatening or bullying other citiizens who have every right to go on a beach, but we tolerate this violent reaction and control tactics or whatever you want to call it from Muslims.  I would equally dislike it if it was a group of white, English Canadian men acting that way towards say, a group of Muslim men trying to get on a beach.

I do hope you can entertain the fact that not everyone is happy with some of the things in the country, and that, if they do have a different opinion than yours, that may not seem as accomodating and "arms opened to all" as your is, that does NOT make them, me included, and bunch of evil racists.  It make them a group of people with a different opinion than yours is.  Thats it, thats all. 

Good day to you.

 

[Trinity]

MRM

I totally agree with many points you are saying.

I think the point I am trying to make is that the rules don't apply equally to all Canadians, and I think that is wrong. 

100% correct.  Some people twist laws to get their ways.  Sometimes laws can also be innappropriately applied
or overused also.  I think the Black Community feels overly targeted and abused by the law because of a few bad
apples and stereotypes.

Why don't they speak out honestly? 

Because people will label them with some word like racist, or KKK, or something similar.  They have gotten to the point where they are afraid to speak out.  Because it is politically incorrect to do so.

I hate politics. I hate these threads.  Why?  It's because of my first post that set this off.  Everything must be read and analyzed
and properly stated.  I HATE POLITICAL BS.  If you don't state something just right, you can be taken off track.  Then, at that point
its easier to attack the credibility of the other person than address the issues (facts) at hand to win your case, which isn't arguing
or solving anything.

That's why people are afraid to speak out!

I spoke out because to me "assimilate or leave" to me...  really does sound racist to me and some people were saying that.
These people have been here many generations some of them, thus, they are just as Canadian as the rest of us.  Now we're turning
on our people. 

So then I speak out.  And for my troubles I become Sanctimonious.  But, I can live with that if it means stating my views honestly
and openly. I've even been called politically correct before too.  I can live with that too.  I have to be true to myself even if I get
labeled.

 

[Trinity]

Fair enough.  Here is my PM.  I certainly hope this, in fact, earns the respect you speak of. 

Sgt, you doth have my respect. 

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Trinity,

Best part of Canada and being Canadians?  We can disagree...and move on.  Right?

"agree to disagree" (and not feel we are then bound to try to kill each other).

;D

 

[Trinity]

Trinity,

Best part of Canada and being Canadians?  We can disagree...and move on.  Right?

I thought the best part of being Canadian was the mutual hatred towards the Ottawa Senators?

I think we've agreed to agree on many points more than we agree to disagree.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I thought the best part of being Canadian was the mutual hatred towards the Ottawa Senators?

:rofl:

I guess the question that comes out of all this to me is...when is it "too much" and how will we, as a country, react at that time?

 

[Trinity]

I guess the question that comes out of all this to me is...when is it "too much" and how will we, as a country, react at that time?

Well...  the current situation in Caledonia Ontario I think would be a good example on a smaller scale.

Eventually, sides get pitted, stupid things are done on both sides and people generally act out of their
anger.  The question would be, can we let cooler heads prevail or continue to act out of anger and
what would be the consequence? (which essentially is what you just asked!)

 

[a_majoor]

Freedom of political speech can take place in the public forum, you private wishes are only relevant in your own home, and insofar as your activities STAY at home. As a guest in your house, I must respect your wishes (it is your house, after all), and you respect my wishes in my house. In public, we agree not to copme to blows over the issues.

There are two correct ways of dealing with this as far as I am concerned: either these people make their own arrangements (get their own swimming pool etc.) or make a request the owner of the pool voluntarily accommodate them. If the owner chooses to do so, fine, but there should be no mechanism to force the owner to inconvenience his other customers. Smart people will make the most flexible arrangements, stupid people will discriminate and find their customer base evaporates.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

Of course, you are entitled to your own opinion.  Just as I am.

My opinion is different, so you feel the need to attack it?

Right.  I get it.  If my opinion isn't politically correct, then you are entitled to call me a racist.

Good for you! 

If your opinion is devoid is logic, I think we all have the freedom to point it out, and you have the responsibility of defending what you originally posted...

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Devoid of logic?  Please explain.  I think I was quite clear in the later posts as to why I take the stance I do.

What is it you, personally, would like to know from me, so that the void of logic you speak of can be satisified?  Or, are you just here to criticize.

Oddly, you don't indicate your opinion or stance on the issue.

I believe I laid my cards out on the table, however, apparantly not to a suitable standard for you?  :

 

[Trinity]

Devoid of logic?  Please explain.  I think I was quite clear in the later posts as to why I take the stance I do.

What is it you, personally, would like to know from me, so that the void of logic you speak of can be satisified?  Or, are you just here to criticize.

Yeah.. you did state your stance.  That post he's referring to is on the previous page.  The post explaining
everything is on the next.  Maybe he's responding to a previous post without seeing the rest of the thread.

 

[Armymedic]

Sorry to dive in a little late into the debate:

I do not feel the school making accommodation for these 3 girls to successfully complete the requirements of their course an unreasonable course of action for the school. Preteen and early teen girls are already somewhat uncomfortable with their bodies. And that to the culturally induced feeling that showing any skin in front of males is Wrong, and you will have a group of girls who must conflict themselves by exposing themselves against the wishes of their parents vs. passing a school class.

We want our children to grow up being respectful and honourable citizens. By society forcing a group of new citizens to go against everything their parents teach them (even teaching which may be wrong in our eyes) we are not allowing them to see our practices and morals as another proper course of action, and their assimilation into our country's society as something that they will want to be when they become adults.

On the flip side...

Cases of special accommodation, as was mentioned above, in many eyes, is a case of one group getting something, another group getting something, and another group, etc, etc. This case of 1+1+1+1 = minorities getting more then the rest of our society. While it may or may not be the case, the media and our collective memories make it seem so.

How exactly does a Sihk RCMP officer wearing a turban, a group of high school students getting a separate class, or a store closing for a Religious holiday affect us personally, as long as we are still guaranteed our rights as citizens of Canada?

 

[couchcommander]

How exactly does a Sihk RCMP officer wearing a turban, a group of high school students getting a separate class, or a store closing for a Religious holiday affect us personally, as long as we are still guaranteed our rights as citizens of Canada?

Because if I decided to join the RCMP but refused to wear anything but a kevlar helmet all the time, because my belief system says it's bad to get shot in the head, they'd probably tell me to go stuff it.

IMO it makes his belief system MORE "equal" than mine, and that's not what this society is supposed, at least in my opinion, to be about.

If an organization wants to have a "recommened head dress" regulation to be inclusive, the fine, let there be a recommended head dress regulation, which allows you to choose something else if you want or your beliefs are against it. If an organization has a "head dress requirement" that doesn't overtly promote one religion over another (ie having crosses or crescents or stars, etc.) then it is a head dress requirement, period. If your religion prevents you from following it, then I'm sorry choose a different profession.

I mean it'd be like a devout Buddhist trying to join the infantry. "Sorry, I can't actually kill or even harm anyone, but if you prevent me from joining you are trampling my religious freedom." If your beliefs conflict with what you want to do, then maybe you should choose to do something else.

*edit* with the school, if they wanted to be inclusive of these beliefs, they should have just made swimming an optional component that had a suitable alternative that ANYONE could take if FOR WHATEVER REASON they decided they didn't want to go swimming.