Muslim girls allowed private swim test

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

this isn't France. Countries are different at the core and foundation.

I don't see any big difference on this matter (islamisation of the west).

Am I to take your example as FACT for the whole country? I don't think so.

Me neither... I got away from my main point : They are Canadian (as you say) ? Do like Canadians.

As for what if you want to swim during the same time the girls are.  Simple, make the swim test when the
pool is normally closed for public use.  Book the pool at a time when it's not in use. That was hard!

Hard ? No, not for now... until they ask more and more and you have to do more and more.

Not only that, but if we book the pool when it is not in use just for them, we will have to do the same thing for everyone ! Why only do it for them ? Because they are the only ones who ask ? Others will soon do the same thing if it is that easy !

My big sister is in this extreme branch of Christianism (ex : not even a single little kiss before wedding, no Christmas because it is not written in the Bible). She knows the rest of the society is not like them, so her stuff STAYS IN HER HOUSE. She has 6 daughters, all of them swim at the public pool, all of them adapt themselves to the society. They don't book the pool when is not in use.

 

[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

That is a right of the mark comment, with the "they were brain washed....because of Allah" comment

Take the time to go wash your brain and your views.

Allright, I will take the time not to make of the mark comments, but my brain and my views will stay the same.

 

[Armymedic]

And that was relevant, how?

I'm sure there are an equally great number of preteen and early teen boys who are "somewhat uncomfortable with their bodies." ...Should they get free private swimming classes, too?

I apologize for my poor punctuation, but if you read the entire edited sentences I believe you will understand my point...

Preteen and early teen girls are already somewhat uncomfortable with their bodies. Add to that the culturally induced feeling that showing any skin in front of males is Wrong, and you will have a group of girls who must conflict themselves by exposing themselves against the wishes of their parents and religion vs. passing a school class.

And into response to couchcommander:
Its about the job they do, as Trinity states as well. Before the Sihk case, the RCMP only had the hat policy on the books. By changing the policy, did it make the RCMP a less effective force? I don't think so. Let us use a bit of common sense in deciding whats right.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Allright, I will take the time not to make of the mark comments, but my brain and my views will stay the same.

Excellent, as long as your brain and your views do not overtake the controll of your comments, in the way as it did in that post.

dileas

tess

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I am still looking for comments/thoughts on what we do to make this "acceptable" for all, for Canada and Canadian society.

But maybe I am fishing with no bait... ;D

Oh well, I will just take a spin in my cool bus   

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I am still looking for comments/thoughts on what we do to make this "acceptable" for all, for Canada and Canadian society.

But maybe I am fishing with no bait... ;D

Oh well, I will just take a spin in my cool bus   

Just like we used to in school. All boys swim together and all girls swim together. No need for any other rule. Don't want to participate as part of the whole? Bow out and fail the class. Fail the class? Fail the grade and you don't progress. Everyone is the same in the eyes of the law. No special class, religion or otherwise. Get rid of secular schools. Religion is for church, not schools. Don't like it? Support your own, get out of my pocket.

Get over it. No one is more special, priviledged nor entitled, more than any one else.

 

[17thRecceSgt]

See now that's what I am talking about.  RecceGuy has his solution laid out...anyone else?

PS - If anyone wants to ride in my bus, there is lots of room...just me and Timmy in here right now... :blotto:

TIMMEAH!

 

[Trinity]

No, not for now... until they ask more and more and you have to do more and more.

That's you're whole argument isn't it.

It's called a "slippery slope:.  The presumption that we give someone an allowance and
they'll keep asking for them over and over again.  A baseless argument founded on
"what if" principles.  All hypothetical with no facts, argument or solution.  At best its used
as a scare tactic and at worst its propaganda.

I disagree with Mud Recce Man and CouchCommando, who both take the same stance with you, but at least
they put a coherent argument on the table.

Your response is..  no, Canada is like France and this slippery slope crap. 

 

[Booked_Spice]

Well for solutions..

Let's start just using our 2 national languages. French and English. If they want to add a class on another language make it an option. Also. OH Canada must be played in our school system, It is OUR COUNTRY. If you want to live in our country at least know our National anthem.

Also if we are not allowed to celebrate Christmas, then we should not be allowed to celebrate any other holiday regardless of religion and nationality. We should go back to the basics. Also, I found when I went through the education system. My classes were more on American History. Well we don't live in the States. I would like to see more Canadian History in our school system( maybe it has changed now I am not too sure)

There is my 2 cents but I will think about it and post more when I am not so hmm under the weather.

Thanks

 

[17thRecceSgt]

There is my 2 cents but I will think about it and post more when I am not so hmm under the weather.
Thanks

no lawns to mow tonight??      ;D

 

[Booked_Spice]

HA HA HA.. funny..LOL...

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Ok so some of us are voicing what we don't like, or what we would like to see added back such as the National Anthem in the school system.

Now maybe I have been on my lil ol bus too long, but aren't these things we need to talk to...our MLAs about?  Our MP, where ever you are from?  Hmm, maybe at the next meeting of your children's school Unit School Board/Comission etc etc?

And would it not be best to do this with a spin on the positive outcome of these proposed changes?

And to point out there IS 2 official languages in Canada?  There IS a National Anthem...and if you came here to enjoy the freedom in this country, that you should appreciate the words in said Anthem?

See where I am going?

Pi**ing and moaning here will not change things.  Other than get Trinity worked up   ;D

We are fortunate to live in this country...are its citizens not, by default, charged with its well-being??

MPs and MLAs....local radio hosts...School boards, etc etc...just my 2 cents...

Vroom vroom, bus is leavin'!

 

[armyvern]

Or how about this for a solution?

How come these girls can't wear the same full-body covering swimsuits that I've seen worn before? Think 'sharkskin suits' from the last Olympics, but with arms.

Seems to me that these were a perfectly acceptable religious standard for all the Muslim girls and women who wore them while swimming with Muslim men and many other denominational non-Muslim men and women together at Wild Wadi Water Park in Dubaii. I also witnessed the wearing of these suits by Muslim women in Latakia, Syria on mixed male/female open to all religions beaches.

There are indeed solutions without segregation. If they can do it in Dubaii and Syria...I think we can manage in Canada... but only if all parties are willing of course.

 

[Trinity]

Ok,  I want to reflect what I'm hearing from the other side of the argument.
By summarizing what I hear, you can see how I am receiving your argument
and if I'm hearing it right of if there is something i am missing. 


We shouldn't accommodate for others who move here or have different
religious beliefs or secular beliefs because they affect the status quo.

Some people are going as far as saying "leave" if they don't like it. 


My response
1) they're not all immigrants... Many have lived here longer than some of our lineage. Some could be
converts to Islam for all we know.  We keep making assumption they're immigrants and not Canadians.

2) I could just as easily say, if you don't like this free and democratic country where people can
lobby and change laws to accommodate (as set forth by the charter) then "leave" to the USA.  They're Canadian,
you're Canadian.  Maybe you're the one out of place.    Yes that example will get people in knots, but it proves
how sorry it sounds to say "just leave" to fellow Canadians in a "free country"

3)  The 1+1+1 argument is pretty slippery slope.  No one has yet to prove that making exceptions for religion will
lead to massive wide scale erosion of ANYONE's rights

Finally..  and this is the best part.

ITS NOT ABOUT RELIGION.  I think I was RIGHT on the nose with the help of Couchcommando.  Its about
group association.  My example was the Indians, gay and lesbian groups, abortions activists, etc.....

It's about groups speaking out.  Its about groups using the legal system to get what they want.  It's not
about a religious group or denomination. The problem here is we are trying to pin it to ONE religion and
one situation.

Then we use 1000 different examples that don't apply to the swimming situation, but they sure do apply
to Minority groups speaking out. 

Thats what we are arguing.. or at least arguing around in circles.

Please, love of GOD.... someone agree that this is not one small issue, but a complex issue we've
been trying to pin in a small box. 

 

[17thRecceSgt]

And that was relevant, how?

I'm sure there are an equally great number of preteen and early teen boys who are "somewhat uncomfortable with their bodies." ...Should they get free private swimming classes, too?

I will admit it...I am uncomfortable with MY body.  :'(

sniffle





;D

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I come back from a 2 day hiatus and THIS is the drivel that festered in my absence??

Good thing I'm in the basement right now cause maybe I can get lucky and catch a rat's ass to give......did anybody actually notice that these kids would fail their year if they didn't take this test?

The pool got used by a different group for a few minutes...whoopdy-do.....anybody ever go to the YMCA when it was an "adult only" or "teen" swim?      Sounds discriminatory to me.  Get a life, folks.
:

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Please, love of GOD.... someone agree that this is not one small issue, but a complex issue we've
been trying to pin in a small box. 

I agree with that 100%.  As I think I said before...this is becoming representative...hence, the appearance of some (myself included) of pouncing on it???

I think people's resentment and frustration stem from loosing some of the more "Canadian" ways and traditions to accomodate what aren't necessarily viewed as "traditional" Canadian traditions...say, the example of Booked_spice's nieces who had were made to learn to sing Oh Canada in neither of our 2 official languages.  Were the other children of Mangerine "heritage" (right word?) also made to then learn it in English or French?

Therein is the problem, which I believe may be referred to as a "double-standard"?

Stupid example, but to make the point...

You are at work, with a peer.  Boss comes up, says to your peer, "Jimmy, you can go home, and I will pay you for the whole day, because you are "a member of Group X".

You however, are not a member of Group X...and...

have to work until 5, only harder because Jimmy is not there to cover his work...so you would feel??

Yes a stupid example, yet an example of 2 people not being treated equally that will/does result in resentment and ill-feelings to the members of "Group X'...

 

[17thRecceSgt]

I come back from a 2 day hiatus and THIS is the drivel that festered in my absence??

Good thing I'm in the basement right now cause maybe I can get lucky and catch a rat's *** to give......did anybody actually notice that these kids would fail their year if they didn't take this test?

The pool got used by a different group for a few minutes...whoopdy-do.....anybody ever go to the YMCA when it was an "adult only" or "teen" swim?      Sounds discriminatory to me.  Get a life, folks.
:

A difference of opinions does not qualify as discrimination, unfortunately...

~Religious Discrimination~
Religious Discrimination is the act of not associating with a group of people belonging to a particular faith or giving them special treatment. This is different from racial discrimination which is based on racial categories.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

But...perhaps I misread/misunderstood.  ;D

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Yep, you did, I was refering to my previous line here....
"adult only" or "teen" swim?

According to some posters maybe we send them all "back to where they came from too"?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Since Wikipedia has been invoked:

Tolerance
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tolerance is a social, cultural and religious term applied to the collective and individual practice of not persecuting those who may believe, behave or act in ways of which one may not approve. It is closely related to the political concept of toleration. Authoritarian systems practice intolerance, the opposite of tolerance. Tolerance is seen as a more widely acceptable term than "acceptance" and particularly "respect," where the application to controversial parties is concerned. Respect has two quite distinct meanings which are often confused to the detriment of commonsense: see respect. Tolerance implies both the ability to punish and the conscious decision not to. It is usually applied to non-violent, consensual behavior, often involving religion, sex, or politics. It rarely permits violent behavior.

In the wider sociological sense, "tolerance" carries with it the understanding that "intolerance" and conformity breeds violence and social instability. "Tolerance" has thus become the social term of choice to define the practical rationale of permitting uncommon social practice and diversity. One only tolerates people who are disliked for their differences. While people deemed undesirable may be disapproved of, "tolerance" would require that the party or group in question be left undisturbed, physically or otherwise, and that criticism directed toward them be free of inflammatory or inciteful efforts.

Is "tolerance" one of those "Canadian ways and traditions" we'd like to see promoted and protected?