My Name....and the headachs it causes

[WAFFEN_SS]

I'm new here, but always had my name Waffen...problem is sometimes people get upset without knowing all the facts. I got an eamil and this is what I wrote in responce, so when people get upset in the future I'll refer them here, and won't have to write another long email. Well that's if i dont get banned. lol  :gunner:

Good Morning,
Thank you for your feedback, I appreciate your input in this matter but I did not choose my name to get a "rise" out of members. I have always had this name where ever I go. I did not choose this name out of ignorance or out of malice. As a point of interest, let me tell you that I am not some half wit who seen too many WW2 movies, I have taken courses in University in German history, Third Reich, WW2, so on, and am well versed in exactly what the Waffen SS represent. In fact, it is often other people who have little or no understanding of German history, have barley read one book on the subject that get hysterical over the name (I'm not implying that this is the case with you). Strictly speaking I choose the name long time ago, because of the military achievements and  military stature of the Waffen SS. It is important to distinguish between the military aspect of it and the political aspect. Because I enjoy the liberties of a free country, well mostly free, I will not change my name, and if I do get banned, well I won't be the first or the last person who has suffered because of ignorance.

I may not agree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
-Voltaire

 

[48Highlander]

You know, the KKK had some great military achievemnts too.  Maybe you could adopt that name instead?

 

[ackland]

Well i agree with Waffen. It was a well trained army and from a purely militaristic point of veiw, it is inspiring.

Only time will tell if he useses the name out of historical respect or if he thinks in a nazi ish way.

Don't give him slack yet.

You know, the KKK had some great military achievemnts too. Maybe you could adopt that name instead?

Really and what would those be?

It's a name. I know some one in Royal Regiment Of Canada Named ADOLF should we shun him to because of a name? By the way Adolf is of an african decent. 

 

[Lance Wiebe]

Personally, I think that he has indeed picked the name to get a rise out of people.

As a point of interest, let me tell you that I am not some half wit who seen too many WW2 movies, I have taken courses in University in German history, Third Reich, WW2, so on, and am well versed in exactly what the Waffen SS represent.

It is important to distinguish between the military aspect of it and the political aspect

Important to who?  The Waffen SS was was employed in some pretty damned barbaric acts, and if you have studied modern history, you should be well versed in them.  I have studied quite a bit of WWII history myself, I don't quite understand why we should associate your log in name with the military history of the Waffen SS, and ignore the political/social aspect of it.

I think that your just trying to pull wool over the eyes of some here.  Your log in name is controversial, and you know it.  If you wanted a name of a German WWII Unit that had a distinguished war record, without political baggage, there are quite a few to pick from.

Just don't try to patronise me with your lame rationale!

 

[Chewy]

I myself am a student of history and anybody who objects to Waffen and has another historical name, should find out what theirs really means, Because every nation, Government and military throughout history has done some very bad things.
The nazi's come to mind only because of hollywood but we as canadians also did some bad things like stealing land from native americans and most peploe either don't know it or don't care but the americans weren't the only ones who at one point in time Lynched African Americans we did to.

 

[WAFFEN_SS]

KKK.....WOW, you would compare the former army of a current ALLY to a bunch of Hill-Billy idiots? See this exactly the kind of people who I have to deal with, very little education, yet a lot of misguided unsubstantiated opinions. I don't expect everyone to have a MMPA, or a Pharm D, from an Ivey League school, but I would hope that people graduate high school, read more books, and really practice tolerance of other opinions even if they contrast yours.

Lance Wiebe, I love it when people make non specific charges, such as "was employed in some pretty damned barbaric acts". You know as much as peace loving nation we are, we deployed our Air Bourne regiment to Somalia, and look what they did. Every army in the history of the world has been involved in some "barbaric acts". Even today you only have to look to Iraq to see that the US Army is involved with a lot of controversy with prisoners dying, being tortured, a whole lot of them missing. So please understand that the army, any army is there to apply brute force, and you apply it and do what ever it takes to win, after you win you write the rules. Former Secretary of Defense Robert S. McNamara said, we had lost the war (WW2) we all would have been prosecuted for war crimes; This from the Secretary of defense! Unlike some, I don't have a black and white picture of the world. Understand that war is a terrible thing, and terrible things are done to win. Lastly, what courses, at what school have you taken on World War 2?

BTW thank you TR, I'm glad that reason and logic are not alien to everyone.  Thank you CHEWY, exactly my point. HOLLYWOOD for some reason releases a ww2 almost every year, where are the movies about the conquest of Africa, the Genocide under Cortez, the real holocaust of the native americans, the killing of civilians in the BOER WAR????? go figure.

 

[48Highlander]

Really and what would those be?

"The first branch of the Ku Klux Klan was established in Pulaski, Tennessee, in May, 1866. A year later a general organization of local Klans was established in Nashville in April, 1867. Most of the leaders were former members of the Confederate Army and the first Grand Wizard was Nathan Forrest, an outstanding general during the American Civil War. During the next two years Klansmen wearing masks, white cardboard hats and draped in white sheets, tortured and killed black Americans and sympathetic whites. Immigrants, who they blamed for the election of Radical Republicans, were also targets of their hatred. Between 1868 and 1870 the Ku Klux Klan played an important role in restoring white rule in North Carolina, Tennessee and Georgia."

There's your military achievements.  And before anyone gets offended, I am by no means endorsing the KKK.  I'm simply pointing out that you can find something to admire about almost any group, depending what kind of criteria you're looking at.  If all you're concerned about is effectiveness at defeating ones enemies, without any concern for morality, then the KKK and the Waffen SS can both be considered impressive.

It's a name. I know some one in Royal Regiment Of Canada Named ADOLF should we shun him to because of a name? By the way Adolf is of an african decent.  

Your buddy Adolf didn't chose that name, his parents did.  "Waffen SS" on the other hand made a concious choice when he signed up for these forums.  Big difference.

 

[Lance Wiebe]

The nazi's come to mind only because of hollywood

Your joking, right?

You're obviously no "student of history" if you can say that with a straight face.

And Waffen SS, if the statement "was employed in some pretty barbaric acts" is a non-specific charge, then you are obviously no student of WWII!  Anybody who has read any serious literature about the Waffen SS would know their acts.

Where do these people come from?  Obviously not military, nor serious students!

 

[48Highlander]

KKK.....WOW, you would compare the former army of a current ALLY to a bunch of Hill-Billy idiots? See this exactly the kind of people who I have to deal with, very little education, yet a lot of misguided unsubstantiated opinions. I don't expect everyone to have a MMPA, or a Pharm D, from an Ivey League school, but I would hope that people graduate high school, read more books, and really practice tolerance of other opinions even if they contrast yours.

Faux-elitism really doesn't work for you.  And, evidently, education is no gaurantee of intelligence.

Lance Wiebe, I love it when people make non specific charges, such as "was employed in some pretty damned barbaric acts". You know as much as peace loving nation we are, we deployed our Air Bourne regiment to Somalia, and look what they did. Every army in the history of the world has been involved in some "barbaric acts".

The Somalia incident involved a few troubled individuals, not an entire fighting force.  Moreover, the government did not encourage such actions.  If you're going to try and justify the actions of the Waffen SS by saying that "everybody does it", at least pick a better example.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Well Waffen, you got what you needed, some attention, now moderators please ban this pissant little troll, please.
Thank you,
Bruce

 

[WAFFEN_SS]

Highlander you made an interesting point abot the clan. Now here is a counter point, while the KKK is a group it is a private group with private membership, all volunteers. The WAFFEN SS, was part of a country's army, men had no choice once they were drafted in the army. While one is a nationally sanctioned organization, the other is a private membership. People had a choice to join the KKK, not everyone volunteered for the Waffen SS. By definition the Waffen SS was a military unit, they had no political wing, agenda, or lobby, like the KKK. The clan has a social agenda and not a military one, so it really offends me that you would compare the two. You might as well compare the Salvation Army with KKK, because they both are for social change. You can draw a correlation between any two groups, just because there maybe a correlation, it does not mean they are equal.

I know the government did not approve or indorse the Somalia incident, but my point was that terrible things occur in war. Funny how you didn't write anything about the Robert S. McNamara comment, and how the US would have been prosecuted if they lost the war. My point is that lets not pretend that the Germans were the only army ever to commit terrible things in war. I know they did, despite that, I admire the Waffen SS, as a fighting unit. Highlander, at least your being a gentlemen and are offering counter arguments, and it is not "Faux-elitism". Funny how after I wrote that your being a gentlemen, you make a personal attack, pity. BTW you better believe I attend grad school, call it what you will I strive to do my best.

Lance Wiebe I did not state that they did not commit those acts, I stated that please be specific about your charges, and all armies engage in those acts.

Bruce thank for the name calling, a real sign of intellect, at least everyone else is presenting arguments.... it is you that should be banned.

 

[Bograt]

As we wait for the forum to be locked, let me hijack it.

Anyone see the baseball game last night? Do you think Boston can pull it together? Also does anyone have a good salsa recipe?

 

[bossi]

Seems like some people have entirely too much time on their hands ...

 

[Inch]

Bograt, I think Boston is done, maybe not a sweep but they won't make it past game 6. If they can't get wins with their 2 aces, they're not gonna get enough wins to advance. Keep in mind I'm kinda biased as I'm a big "Evil Empire" fan.

Waffen, I have taken a few courses in military history, and IIRC, the WaffenSS was a strictly volunteer organization.  All draftees were put into the Wehrmacht, not the WaffenSS. Also, I am completely appalled that you could compare anything to the Holocaust.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

I have a degree in history, have published two books on Second World War subjects, and run the website at http://www.deutschesoldaten.com and will stack up my historical knowledge of the German military against our new friend's any day.

That said, I find his name offensive and this matter will be discussed further among the moderators.  I still suggest, as others have, that it be changed.  This is not a German military forum, it is a Canadian Army forum, and we wish to present a positive image of ourselves to those that come here - we try and type everything with the belief that mothers of prospective recruits come here, for example.  We don't need them seeing some joker calling himself WAFFEN SS or SEPPDIETRICH.  Let's not forget the cold blooded murder of hundreds of Canadian servicemen in Normandy by the Waffen SS, performed as a matter of course.

 

[Infanteer]

Why this continued, I don't know.

Waffen SS, the truth is that your namesake is not a fighting arm of the German state (although it performed well in that function) but rather a private army of a political party.   As such, the term is loaded with political connotations that some may be extremely uncomfortable with.   Although you may have a less then sinister reason for choosing the name, this is an open forum, and we have a wide variety of visitors.   Some may be descendents of Holocaust survivors, etc, etc.

Bottom line, your name is extremely lacking in tact and good taste.   Although it is possible in a mature discussion to argue on the merits of the fighting abilities of the organization, your blaring of it in your screen name is just plain silly.

I don't care what your motives are; if you walked into a restaurant with a shirt with big "SS" runes on it, we'd all most likely assume you were an idiot.   Same applies here.

So, you can either change your name to something that you like in the next little bit, or I will change it for you; perhaps to something that you won't like.   The ball is in your court.

Cheers,
The Staff.

 

[Mike Bobbitt]

The Conduct Guidelines clearly state that offensive information will be removed.

It's been identified that using Waffen SS as a name is offensive to some and therefore I officially ask that you pick an alternate. (Before we get into a pissing match about what's offensive to whom, let's work within the bounds of reason: your name is offensive on reasonable grounds to a reasonable portion of our users here.)

Points have been scored for and against, so let's end the discussion. If you couldn't see that choosing Waffen SS as a name would be controversial at best, you probably need to suck back and reload before carrying on.

 

[Infanteer]

Well, since you haven't done it yet (and have obviously been back), I decided to help you out.