"My SAS hero has been betrayed"

[smithsb1111]

A Special Forces hero jailed for keeping a gun as a war trophy has been ‘betrayed’ by the Army, his wife said yesterday.
Sergeant Danny Nightingale, a crack SAS sniper with 17 years of service, was sentenced to 18 months in military detention after admitting illegally owning a 9mm Glock pistol.
The weapon was a gift from a group of Iraqis he helped train in 2007.

We are hoping to cause some noise to help make the government rethink the decision. Please post as much as possible.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2231266/My-SAS-hero-betrayed-Wife-tells-torment-special-forces-husband-jailed-possessing-pistol-given-Iraqis-outstanding-service.html#ixzz2C2yMXxVG
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Mod edit to clarify the subject header is a headline from MSM

 

[Dissident]

I'll be the first to say it:
He was not betrayed, he broke the law.

That said, I do think the punishment is rather harsh.

 

[OldSolduer]

I'll be the first to say it:
He was not betrayed, he broke the law.

That said, I do think the punishment is rather harsh.

Agreed, but this is excessive. A slight slap on the wrist plush a jacking from the RSM should have sufficed,

 

[Dissident]

Agreed, but this is excessive. A slight slap on the wrist plush a jacking from the RSM should have sufficed,

Something along those lines. Sadly the UK are not as liberal with firearms as we are.

For example: http://www.thisissurreytoday.co.uk/Ex-soldier-faces-jail-handing-gun/story-12659234-detail/story.html

So relatively speaking he got off easy, as sad as that is...

 

[my72jeep]

I read the link provided by NinerSix, it sounds so asinine it could have only come from the Canadian courts, or so I thought. Any sane person should Have said good job thank you very much.

 

[The Bread Guy]

A slight slap on the wrist plush a jacking from the RSM should have sufficed,

Sorry, but would a private in a line regiment caught doing the same thing merit "a slight slap on the wrist (and) a jacking from the RSM"?

18 months in military DB is WAY too much, but I don't agree with going too, too lightly on a very highly-trained senior NCO breaking this kind of rule, either.

 

[57Chevy]

he broke the law.

True enough.

The article is grey and lacks a most important factor, crimminal intent.

There is one thing I find unclear about this ordeal,
How could his son plan to frame the gun and present it to his regiment when it was still in its unopened box when cops discovered it ?

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/4639368/Fury-at-SAS-snipers-trophy-gun-jailing.html

 

[brihard]

He illegally imported a pistol into the UK.

I'm sure that, like us, there are proper mechanisms he could have used to deactivate and import a war trophy for display. He chose not to.

Extreme sentence? Absolutely. Criminally culpable? Just as certain. This is exactly the kind of case where deterrence is the biggest factor in sentencing.

 

[OldSolduer]

It could be looked at it this way:

If you think you are immune to the law or will get an easy break just because you are in the Army, think again. We locked the SAS up for 18 months.


Could it be a zealous prosecutor with a left leaning "I don't like the British Forces" judge?

 

[dapaterson]

Could it be a zealous prosecutor with a left leaning "I don't like the British Forces" judge?

It was a court-martial. Not a civilian trial.

 

[OldSolduer]

It was a court-martial. Not a civilian trial.

Still, sounds politically motivated, "we can jail the SAS so watch out".

 

[FJAG]

According to my reading of the article, he didn't actually import the pistol himself

"The court martial was told that Sgt Nightingale came back to Britain from Iraq in 2007 after two friends were killed in a helicopter crash, leaving behind his equipment including the pistol....
The weapon was packed and put in a container that was sent to the SAS HQ in Hereford and then onto his his home where it remained unopened until 2010, according to the Telegraph.
A year earlier Sgt Nightingale collapsed into a three-day coma while taking part in 200-mile charity trek in Brazil.
Hie suffered a serious brain injury which left him with severe memory loss, according to two expert witnesses."

I won't comment on whether he was guilty or not because he entered a guilty plea but I certainly find the sentence extreme.

You should note that the UK Judge Advocate General (who only deals with trial matters unlike our Judge Advocate General who is involved in just about everything legal except trials) is a civilian as are all the trial judges. They are not senior legal officers like ours but they could very well be retired Brit legal officers.

I've been unsuccessfully trying to confirm if there was a panel of officers involved. My guess is that this was a guilty plea and sentencing before a judge sitting alone.

I tend to follow a number of Brit newspapers. They're in an uproar over this case over there.

 

[dapaterson]

I won't comment on whether he was guilty or not because he entered a guilty plea but I certainly find the sentence extreme.

Do we know the specifics of the charge? And do we know the range of sentences available?  Two key data points needed prior to labelling the result as "extreme".

 

[daftandbarmy]

I owned a pistol while in the Briritsh Army and kept it in the Coy wpns lockup.

Every month I had to meet a PC from the local plod offfice and take them into the armoury (past all the mortars and machine guns and racks of assault rifles) to open the locker where my puny .357 was kept and show them the serial number to prove that this was my pistol and it was still not at large.

And this was before the mass murders (with pistols) that prompted to UK to ban all handguns.

Anyone in the UK who owns a hand gun, or doesn't, knows that to have one and not let the authorities know about it is asking for it. A soldier, in the SAS? Nuff said...

 

[smithsb1111]

Do we know the specifics of the charge? And do we know the range of sentences available?  Two key data points needed prior to labelling the result as "extreme".

He is my brother in law.  He was told that if he didn't plead guilty they would push for a full 5 year sentence and if he pleaded guilty he would get a suspended sentence.  It was a complete shock when he got 18months.  They flat out lied to him.  As usual he was just trying to the best thing for his family by pleading out. He was near retirement and just wanted to get this incident past him as he hasn't fully recovered from his brain injury.

 

[FJAG]

Do we know the specifics of the charge? And do we know the range of sentences available?  Two key data points needed prior to labelling the result as "extreme".

I've looked for it but the UK MOD isn't too good at publishing data on these things. Moreover since he is SAS there probably won't be anything official published. Everything that the papers have come through Nightingale's wife and a bit from his lawyers.

The papers mention "possession of a war trophy" or in others "illegal possession of a handgun". I think the latter is more likely. The offence does carry a five year mandatory sentence they say and that he was warned he could face that term in jail before pleading. According to the Guardian, the judge "promised leniency" before they decided to plead guilty.

I myself have trouble with the concept of five years mandatory but 18 months awarded. Mandatory is mandatory.

Where I see the difference is not so much the fact that a jail term ought to be awarded but by virtue of the fact that in these somewhat extraordinary circumstances a suspended sentence could have been awarded which would keep this man out of serving time in jail.

I know where you're coming from. I'm usually very reluctant to pile on and second guess a finding or a sentence from the scanty facts in a newspaper article but there is something about this case that really bugs me.

Addendum: Just read smithsb1111 post and now I'm even more bugged.

 

[Dissident]

What was the sentence for the Sgt/WO who brought back an AK for a mess trophy, without going through proper channels?

 

[FJAG]

What was the sentence for the Sgt/WO who brought back an AK for a mess trophy, without going through proper channels?

The case was R v Olive 2011 - cite here  http://www.jmc-cmj.forces.gc.ca/assets/CMJ_Internet/docs/en/2011cm2010.pdf

Note there were 2 AK 47s and several 30 rd magazines BUT the weapons had been rendered inoperable by barrel welded shut and bolts and return springs missing.

Sentence was Reprimand and fine of $1,500 payable in monthly instalments of $500

 

[Bluebulldog]

Seems a bit harsh given the circumstances.

He received an award, which it can be argued was not imported by the accused, but rather as an oversight by his unit. Upon receiving the handgun, still in its packaging among his other belongings, he probably was a bit stymied as to how to proceed.

You're in posession of an illegal handgun, which you didn't bring in, but now is in your posession. Even if you had every intention to render it inoperable, you are now faced with the logistics of doing so.

Not adressing it right away was a huge mistake, but hardly worth 18 months in custody. I'd tend to belive, like other posters, that this is more of a statement, and example setting, than having to do anything with actual discipline.

Having seen smithsb's post, I'm not surprised he was lied to about his plea arrangement. Furious, yes, surprised, no.

 

[The Bread Guy]

According to my reading of the article, he didn't actually import the pistol himself

"The court martial was told that Sgt Nightingale came back to Britain from Iraq in 2007 after two friends were killed in a helicopter crash, leaving behind his equipment including the pistol....
The weapon was packed and put in a container that was sent to the SAS HQ in Hereford and then onto his his home where it remained unopened until 2010, according to the Telegraph.
A year earlier Sgt Nightingale collapsed into a three-day coma while taking part in 200-mile charity trek in Brazil.
Hie suffered a serious brain injury which left him with severe memory loss, according to two expert witnesses." ....

How many "containers" would the military process by shipping to a base, then to a person's home?  If that was a personal barrack box or equivalent, then "he" could be seen to have imported it. 

Now, if someone ELSE packed the pistol into the barrack box, then the importation question could, indeed, be dicey. 

It'll be interesting to see how this continues to unfold.