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National Defence in Hansard

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vonGarvin

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Here, unedited, I intend to post converstations taken from HANSARD that have to do with National Defence matters and other defence issues.  Feel free to reply here, or, if a mod jumps in, put the replies elsewhere.  Actually, I'd like nothing but the raw conversations here and comments elsewhere, so that people can read this stuff without commentary.

From 22 Nov 2006 (http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=39&Ses=1&DocId=2528725):
Hon. Jack Layton (Toronto—Danforth, NDP): 
    Mr. Speaker, although there has been no official announcement, it looks as though Lockheed Martin has been awarded a $5 billion contract to build planes for our troops. Of course, one has to wonder how come Lockheed Martin knows. Subcontractors and contractors apparently know already, but ordinary Canadians have not been told. In fact, a press conference was cancelled.
    My question is for the Prime Minister. What is so secret about this deal? Why can Canadians not be told what is being done with their tax dollars when it comes to a major military purchase?

Mr. James Moore (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, CPC):  
    Mr. Speaker, no deal has been signed. The RFP has yet to go out. In fact, the contract will not be awarded until August 2007. Again, the leader of the NDP is barking up an invisible tree.

Hon. Jack Layton (Toronto—Danforth, NDP): 

    Mr. Speaker, I thank the parliamentary secretary for that clarification.
    How about this, will the government at least commit to bringing this contract in front of the Standing Committee on National Defence so that it can be reviewed, so we can find out whether or not this is actually going to be the best plane for the Canadian Forces, and so that we can find out whether it is actually going to meet the needs?
    I know the peanut gallery heckling me at the moment does not like to hear these kinds of questions. Let those members support the idea of having this sort of discussion in front of a standing committee of this House, the way they used to say it should be done when they were in opposition.

Right Hon. Stephen Harper (Prime Minister, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, the government made clear in the last budget its intentions to re-equip our military. That will be done with the best interests of the Canadian military and Canadian taxpayers in mind.
    What I find interesting is that no matter how much the NDP says it supports the military, as soon as we actually want to spend money on the military, the NDP objects. This party will give our military the best equipment.
 
From 22 Nov 2006:
Mr. Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic, NDP): 
    Mr. Speaker, the NDP has learned through access to information that a major fuel spill at the Canadian Forces installation at Alert went unreported at the time. The significant incident report which we obtained states that on September 6 of this year a flex expansion joint failed and 21,000 litres of jet fuel were spilled at Alert.
    Why did the government fail to inform northern Canadians? What actions has the minister taken to ensure this never happens again?

Hon. Gordon O'Connor (Minister of National Defence, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, as soon as that incident occurred, the defence department moved quickly to clean it up. All the necessary actions have been taken.

Mr. Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic, NDP): 
    Mr. Speaker, current and former northern military installations have wreaked havoc on the environment.
    Why did it take the NDP to have this information see the light of day? The government promised to be open, transparent and accountable.
    The minister should apologize. This incident should have been reported to the hard-working people of the north. We are not second class citizens.
    Will he immediately announce that any incident like this will be promptly reported to the Canadian people?

Hon. Gordon O'Connor (Minister of National Defence, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, all the necessary actions were taken to clean up the spill. I should inform the member that DND is spending about $60 million each year cleaning up residue that was left in the north for the last 30 to 40 years. We will continue to do that until all the areas are cleaned up.
 
There was also this exchange yesterday:

Mr. Norman Doyle (St. John's East, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, on Remembrance Day Canadians often reflect upon the sacrifices made by so many of our war veterans. However, over the years a small group of veterans has gone unrecognized.


    The U.K. ministry of defence has identified about 200 veterans including soldiers from Newfoundland serving in the British army who underwent chemical agent testing in England. They have gone unnoticed.


    Can the Minister of National Defence please inform the House what he is doing to rectify this situation?

    [Table of Contents]

Hon. Gordon O'Connor (Minister of National Defence, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, it is my great honour today to announce that our new government will be extending Canada's chemical warfare agent testing recognition program to account for those who volunteered as test subjects in Britain. These 200 veterans, or possibly their primary beneficiaries, are now eligible for a one time tax payment of $24,000. They will finally be recognized for the personal sacrifice they made in the service of Canada.


    Supporting our brave men and women in uniform means giving them the recognition and care they are due when their service is done. Those who served decades ago need our support today. Canada's new government is honoured to be able to give it to them.

================

Forgive me for the self-promotion but we have more on this:

Vets will get compensation for chemical testing

OTTAWA -- The Canadian government will provide compensation to Second World War veterans who volunteered to undergo chemical warfare agent testing done by the British Army.

Documents obtained by CTV News last week under Access to Information laws indicate that the Department of Defence believes that 200 Canadian soldiers volunteered to have mustard gas sprayed on their arms that had been coated with "barrier creams", concoctions the British Army was trying to develop to protect troops in the field from mustard gas attacks. [Read the rest at http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061122/veterans_compensation_061122/20061122?hub=Canada]

and also:

For those who want some more background, I’ve uploaded an electronic version of the briefing note we obtained which provides some more background on this issue.  See our blog post at: http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061122/veterans_compensation_061122/20061122?hub=Canada ]



 
von Garvin said:
From 22 Nov 2006:
Mr. Dennis Bevington (Western Arctic, NDP): 
    Mr. Speaker, the NDP has learned through access to information that a major fuel spill at the Canadian Forces installation at Alert went unreported at the time. The significant incident report which we obtained states that on September 6 of this year a flex expansion joint failed and 21,000 litres of jet fuel were spilled at Alert.
    Why did the government fail to inform northern Canadians? What actions has the minister taken to ensure this never happens again?

Obviously, the local populace was VERY concerned... that was over TWO months ago. I'm not a CFS Alert genious, but I suspect there must be local (read civilian) workers at the station? Considering it took an access to information request one can deduce the member from the Western Arctic is more than a little out of touch with his constituents - could be the distance to Ottawa though. Oh.. and isn't a significant incident report - IAW with the CFS Alert EMS - considered "a report"? Should the federal government hold a national press conference every time an SIR is forwarded?
 
Of course the press needs to know, how else will mole hills turn into mountains?
 
From 23 November 2006:

Mr. Claude Bachand (Saint-Jean, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, another major military aerospace contract is heading for the United States. Lockheed Martin has just been awarded a contract totalling $4.9 billion Canadian, for purchase and maintenance of the Hercules CC-130J tactical aircraft.
    Does the Minister of Defence acknowledge that his procurement process excludes all other companies from a potential transaction, and that he is again going against a tendering process that is equitable, fair and transparent, with all of the negative consequences for employment in Quebec, where 55% of the industry is located—

The Speaker:  
    The Hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services has the floor.

Mr. James Moore (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, my colleague appears to be unaware of what has been said. I told the leader of the NDP yesterday that the awarding of this contract has yet to be decided. A request for proposal will be issued to the sole bidder qualified. The project is proceeding on schedule. The plan is for this contract to be awarded in August 2007. So this has not yet been decided.

Mr. Claude Bachand (Saint-Jean, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, considering Quebec companies make up 55% of the Canadian aeroindustry, can the minister explain why Lockheed Martin should be chosen?
    Also, how does the minister explain the fact that, in his letter of intent posted on the Public Works Canada site, he requires Quebec content of no more than 5% of the total contract? That is absolutely unacceptable to Quebec.

Mr. James Moore (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Works and Government Services and Minister for the Pacific Gateway and the Vancouver-Whistler Olympics, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, as I just said, the contact is not yet written, not yet drawn up. This will not be decided before August of next year, August 2007. So I ask my colleague to wait until then.
    We will comply with all the processes, as will all those who wish to submit their application for this project. We shall do what we can to ensure the best results for our country.
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Ms. Alexa McDonough (Halifax, NDP): 
    Mr. Speaker, on October 26 the defence minister told the House he would discuss Canada's role in Afghanistan any time any place. He then took his so-called cross-Canada tour to sell the Kandahar mission without setting foot in Atlantic Canada. Halifax is home to Canada's largest military community. Soldiers from Nova Scotia have suffered the most severe casualties in Kandahar.
    I urge the minister to reconsider his refusal to come to Halifax on December 4 to participate in a public forum on Afghanistan, or does the minister's Canada end at the New Brunswick-Quebec border?

Hon. Gordon O'Connor (Minister of National Defence, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, I find it odd that a member who belongs to a party that really does not care about the military is talking about the military. I have been to Halifax twice since I have been in office and I will be in Halifax again in the near future, but I will follow my own schedule.
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Hon. Bryon Wilfert (Richmond Hill, Lib.): 
    Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to Bill C-287, a bill to recognize a national peacekeepers' day. It is certainly appropriate. Parliament has passed bills in the past and previous ministers have also recognized special days. I think of Vimy Ridge Day, April 9, to honour our soldiers who fought at Vimy Ridge in 1917. National Aboriginal Day is in June.
    The purpose of the bill is to recognize the tremendous role and the history of peacekeepers in this country since the days of Lester B. Pearson. In 1956 he first proposed at the United Nations a peacekeeping mission with regard to the Suez Canal crisis.
    Historically in the world, armies have been involved in combat and often in peacemaking rather than peacekeeping. After the Suez Canal crisis, in November 1956, for the first time countries in the region, including Egypt and Israel, agreed to the proposal to have peacekeepers there. Canada's foreign affairs minister at the time, Lester Pearson, proposed the United Nations expeditionary force to go there and basically separate Egyptian and Israeli troops. For this he received the Nobel Peace Price in 1957.
    Canadians have been very proud and have been recognized around the world for their peacekeeping efforts. We have trained. Whether it is on the Golan Heights with Japanese troops, whether it is in Cambodia, or elsewhere, our troops have been recognized for their peacekeeping efforts. People recognize the expertise of Canadians in the peacekeeping field. That is very important.
    A national peacekeepers' day would be a day to take time to pause, to think about all of those missions in which Canadians have participated around the world, for example, Cyprus. It would be day to recognize what Canadians have contributed to assist in maintaining not only peace, but also in the promotion of that peace. It is very important to recognize the contribution.
    The United Nations under the Security Council gives the power and responsibility to take collective action when it comes to peace and security around the world. For this reason, the international community looks at these types of operations where Canadians and others have played such an important role in the past.
    I know all members of the House are very supportive and very proud of the role of our peacekeepers. Over 100,000 Canadian Forces participate in peacekeeping and peace support missions around the world. Regrettably, over 100 have been killed in action over the years.
    I would like to stress the importance of a national peacekeeping day. It would be a day to remember, a day to reflect and a day to pause. The Department of Canadian Heritage does a tremendous job in educating Canadians with information packets, brochures, et cetera. I would envision in declaring August 9 national peacekeepers' day, and I will explain why August 9 in a moment, that it would be in part to educate Canadians, particularly young people. It is very important that they understand the role. Why August 9? Because regrettably, 32 years ago on August 9, nine Canadian peacekeepers en route from Beirut to Damascus were killed by a surface missile.
    I congratulate the member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing in proposing this bill and suggesting August 9 as the day, not only to remember those nine brave Canadians who lost their lives in the quest for peace, but also to recognize in a broader sense all of those who have continued to serve and will serve this country in the future, and to pay homage.
    I am the son of a World War II veteran who fought on the shores of Normandy through the Battle of the Falaise Gap, through Caen, through Belgium and Holland. Unfortunately he had shrapnel in his legs until the day he died and suffered from the loss of hearing in one ear from being buried alive when his tank was hit by a shell. I was always instilled with the importance of the role of Canadian soldiers.

It is a fact that freedom does not come cheaply. We are engaged in what I would consider to be a peacemaking mission in Afghanistan. Whether it is a peacekeeping role in Cyprus, the fact is that Canadians have always stepped up and contributed effectively over the years. In situations of civil wars, ethnic cleansing, genocides, Canadian peacekeepers have worked to save the lives of many people around the world. They are heroes.
  Normally when we think of peacekeepers, we do not think of them as being involved in conflict situations. Regrettably from time to time they could be fired upon by other parties as they were in Bosnia, or when they could hit a mine when travelling along a road. Our peacekeepers put their lives on the line every day.
    I am sure all members of this House would join me in supporting the recognition of a national peacekeepers' day on August 9.
    I mentioned that over the last 53 years we have seen Canadians participate in many theatres and also assist other countries in the art and the role of peacekeeping. When Canadians wear their blue berets or blue helmets, people know that peacekeepers are there to improve the quality of life for individuals in very difficult situations. They are there to assist in the peace process.
    There is no question that sometimes Canadians are not aware of the difference between peacekeeping and peacemaking. Some would argue that in 1993 Somalia was not a peacekeeping mission; it was a peacemaking mission. Afghanistan is a peacemaking mission, although we are there obviously to try to improve the lives of people who are in a very difficult situation.
    Recognition is important. We do not do this lightly. We do not declare national holidays. National peacekeepers' day would not be a bank holiday, or something in that regard. In a sense it would be a day to reflect. I think it is important as a recognition.
    Not too far from Parliament Hill there is a monument to Canadian peacekeepers around the world, to their dedication and hard work. It is incumbent upon parliamentarians and Canadians in general not only to recognize the contribution of peacekeepers, but also to help educate people on the role of peacekeeping.
    As a former educator, I can say that nothing is more effective than making sure that materials are available in schools. I commend the Department of Canadian Heritage for the tremendous work it does in ensuring that information material is available.
    I urge members to support private member's Bill C-287. The member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing is no stranger to this issue. He proposed and we adopted April 9 as Vimy Ridge Day.
    This issue is important. I would expect that this would be one of the few debates that would not be acrimonious because I think there is a spirit here for that recognition.
-------------------------------------------------
National Peacekeepers' Day Act

    The House resumed consideration of the motion that Bill C-287, An Act respecting a National Peacekeepers' Day, be read the second time and referred to a committee.
Mr. Laurie Hawn (Edmonton Centre, CPC):  
    Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the issue raised by this private member's bill proposing the establishment of a national peacekeepers' day in Canada. This private member's bill is very sincere and well intentioned but I would, however, like to add some perspective that I feel qualified to offer.
    Fifty years ago, Egypt nationalized the Suez Canal Company and that event gave rise to armed conflict with Egypt on one side and Israel, Britain and France on the other. Eighteen hundred and fifty-three lives were lost. British prime minister, Anthony Eden, was forced to resign and the British, French and Israeli forces withdrew in March 1957.
    However, before the withdrawal, Lester Pearson, Canada's acting cabinet minister for external affairs, went to the United Nations and suggested creating a United Nations emergency force in the Suez. The United Nations accepted his suggestion and, after several days of tense diplomacy, a neutral force was sent, with the consent of Egyptian President Nasser, stabilizing conditions in the area.
    Lester Pearson was awarded the Nobel Peace Price in 1957 for his efforts. The United Nations peacekeeping force was Lester Pearson's creation and he is considered the father of the modern concept of peacekeeping. Since that time, Canada has lost close 115 personnel on what have been called peacekeeping missions.
    In a speech in Edmonton recently, Lieutenant-General Andrew Leslie, Chief of the Land Staff, recalled wryly that it was hard to classify the operations in Croatia and Bosnia as peacekeeping when artillery rounds were routinely whistling overhead. The name that we give to operations in no way changes the sacrifice that Canadian Forces personnel and their families have made in their conduct of those operations.
    Over the past 50 years, many Canadians have become accustomed to the idea that we are a nation of peacekeepers despite the fact that our soldiers have been assigned mainly to missions other than those carried out by the UN blue berets.
    Canada is one of the major military forces in the world for some good and some not so good reasons. The Canadian Forces act as instruments of peace every day. Whether in the First World War, the Second World War, Korea, Suez, Cypress, the Balkans, the first Gulf war, Afghanistan, various missions in the Middle East, roles within NORAD and NATO for about 50 years, and many other missions too numerous to mention, the Canadian Forces have contributed to peace and security.
    Although I do not wear any of the traditional peacekeeping medals, I flew thousands of hours of peacekeeping missions in the CF-104 Starfighter and the CF-18 Hornet in North America and Europe. I spent thousands of hours as a flying instructor teaching others to carry out those missions. My flying helmet was not blue but that did not detract from the ultimate objective of every mission that I flew.
    Several times during the first hour and a half or so of debate on this bill, the tragic and criminal incident of the shooting down of a Canadian Forces Buffalo aircraft by a Syrian surface to air missile on August 9, 1974, was cited. Nine Canadians were killed during this routine supply mission to Egypt. The Syrians maintained that the attack was an accident but no one bought that story.
    I recall very clearly when I heard the news that day. I was driving southbound on the autobahn in Germany between our bases of Baden Soellingen and Lahr. One of the names that was released was Captain Keith Mirau. Keith and I had been flying instructors together at Gimli, Manitoba on our previous tours. The loss of Captain Mirau and his eight crew members was mourned appropriately.
    During and since my career in the air force, I have attended many dozens of funerals mourning the loss of friends and acquaintances who have died in the line of duty in the uniform of the Canadian Forces.
    Every one of those losses was tragic, and the families did not distinguish between deaths caused by a CF-18 crashing in Cold Lake, a diving accident near Esquimalt, a submarine fire in the middle of the ocean, a sniper in Cyprus or Bosnia, a vehicle rollover in Wainwright, a gunshot in the Middle East or fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan.
    Every member of the Canadian Forces who died in the line of duty represents a sacrifice in the name of peace, and they are all worthy of the title “peacekeepers”.
    The hon. member for Etobicoke—Lakeshore wrote in the February 2003 edition of Policy Options that the traditional, almost quaint, notion of Pearsonian peacekeeping is dead. He contended that Canada has not adjusted well to the realities of what has been called peace enforcement. He said, “We not only don't contribute enough to peacekeeping, we are not training to do the right kind of peacekeeping, which is combat-capable peace enforcement in zones of conflict, like Afghanistan and the Balkans”.
    Retired Major General Lewis Mackenzie has argued that the inability of the UN to prevent human slaughter in Bosnia, Somalia and Rwanda would have been solved by firmer military force. He wrote last year that the Canadian Forces needed to adapt by being “light, lethal, strategically mobile and sustainable”.
    What I am trying to say is that there is a very large grey area between what Canadians have been led to think of as peacekeeping and our military's other activities, including wartime combat.
    Like many other countries, Canada sets aside one day to remember Canadians in uniform who gave their lives in the name of freedom, regardless of how they made that sacrifice. That day is Remembrance Day, and we celebrate it every November 11.
    We all spent time in our ridings recently commemorating the courage and sacrifice of Canadian men and women in the cause of peace. Remembrance Day has had more meaning for Canadians in recent years but, as always, the sacrifice to which we pay homage was not in the cause of war but in the cause of peace. Canada has lost over 116,000 courageous men and women in uniform in the cause of peace since 1914.
    The Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association is an organization that promotes Canada's history in United Nations peacekeeping operations. Their members have a right to be very proud of their contributions to peace. On their website, the new Book of Remembrance will contain the names of members of the Canadian Forces who died as a result of duty either overseas, outside of or in Canada. To date the criteria is:
    In addition to those who died from causes related to service in a “Special Duty Area”, the Book will contain the names of all those whose deaths resulted from injury or disease or aggravation thereof that arose out of or was directly connected with military service in other than a “Special Duty Area”.
    The Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association clearly recognizes the equivalence of the sacrifices made by all Canadians in uniform, no matter their mission.
    August 9 is already designated and celebrated as Peacekeeping Day. In my view and in the view of virtually every serving and retired military member whom I have canvassed, that is appropriate. Any additional recognition, such as lowering the flag on the Peace Tower or declaring a national holiday, would dilute the significance of November 11.
    Allow me to quote a few of the many responses I have received.
    A retired colonel and member of UN peacekeeping missions said:
    With the advent of the Seventh Book of Remembrance, peacekeepers are now recognized in the Peace Tower and, in my view fall into the same category as wartime fatalities—they died in military service to Canada. Almost all of our provinces now recognize the 9th of August as Peacekeeper's Day. I equate this to the Battle of the Atlantic Day and the Battle of Britain Day ceremonies—celebrated to show respect, concern, admiration and remembrance but being neither a national holiday nor an event requiring the lowering of the Peace Tower flag.
    A retired colonel and World War II fighter pilot said:
    My view is that a proper recognition of our annual Remembrance Day on November 11th is exactly what we need, exactly what all our generations need as a tribute to the fallen, and those who served our country. I do not favour a special “Peacekeepers Day”.
    A retired lieutenant-colonel and fighter squadron commander said:
    The 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month would seem to me to recognize those who were successful at establishing peace and maintaining the peace or gave their lives in the attempt.
    A retired general and former chief of the defence staff said:
    I for one believe that we should keep November 11 as our ONLY military day of recognition...where all present, past, living, dead military folks who have and are contributing to our security are honoured and recognized. I do not believe we should dilute the importance of this day...to have a Peacekeepers Day is a BAD idea.
    I have heard similar comments, all of which echo that idea, from members of the armed forces at all levels.
    I know that the intention behind this motion is honourable, and I am certainly not questioning the motives of the hon. member who introduced it.
    However, as a veteran and a peacekeeper and representing the virtually unanimous opinions that I have received on this issue, I do not support any initiative that would have the effect of watering down the importance of November 11.
    I know there is a desire to have this bill go to committee for study and to hear more indepth discussion on the pros and cons of this initiative. For that reason, I will support it at this time.
Mr. David Sweet (Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to stand in the House today to participate in the debate on Bill C-287, An Act respecting a National Peacekeepers' Day.
    I have listened very carefully to the remarks made by my colleagues, most recently my colleague, the hon. member for Edmonton Centre. I want to commend the hon. member for Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, who also works with me on the veterans affairs committee, for bringing this initiative forward. I also want to thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo for her comments earlier in the House.
    It is indeed fitting that the debate on the bill has stemmed from the 50th anniversary of the Suez crisis and Remembrance Day less than two weeks ago. Previous speakers have referred to Canada's leadership during the Suez crisis and our country's contribution to many peacekeeping missions in the years since. In fact, I would just like to read a portion from a report from the Library of Parliament, which says:
    Over 100,000 Canadians have served in more than 50 separate missions since 1949. UN peace and security operations form the majority of Canada's international military commitments. While peacekeepers come from all branch of Canadian Forces (Army, Navy and Air Force), the Army has provided the vast majority because of the nature of the tasks involved. More recently, thousands of men and women from police forces across the country, Elections Canada, the Corrections Service of Canada and other Canadian governmental and non-governmental agencies have served in peace support missions as well. 
    Canada's peacekeepers have served their nation with great courage and distinction, and they are continuing to serve the cause of peace in troubled regions all around the globe. Previous speakers have noted that many ceremonies that are organized in communities across Canada on August 9 to commemorate the service and sacrifice of peacekeepers.
    I thank our veterans organizations for supporting the bill. May I take this opportunity to salute the leadership of the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping. They led the campaign to win the support of provinces and municipalities for declaring Peacekeepers Day in their respective jurisdictions. They have also been instrumental in organizing the commemorative ceremonies on August 9 as well.
    My colleague earlier spoke about the missions involved from peace building to peacemaking to peacekeeping. While there is some debate as to the definition of peacekeeper, I would hope that we give it the widest interpretation possible to be fully inclusive of all Canadian Forces members, members of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and other police forces as well as members of the diplomatic corps, who have supported international peace and security operations. This would be very much in keeping with the spirit of recognition and remembrance.
    The ceremonies on August 9 give Canadians an opportunity to pay their respects to all those who have worn our uniform in times of peace and war, especially those who paid the ultimate price of giving their lives. We also take the time to remember those men and women in the Canadian Forces who are now placing themselves in harm's way to defend our values of life.
    My colleagues have spoken about the other ways in which we honour our peacekeepers. We know that tens of thousands of veterans wear the peacekeeping service medal with great pride. Here in the nation's capital, Canadians can visit the peacekeeping monument, “Reconciliation”.
    It is appropriate that the House of Commons should be located only a few paces down from the memorial chamber where seven Books of Remembrance are on display. Those books contain the names of those who died serving our country.
    Until last November, there were six books in honour of Canadian men and women who died in the first world war, the second world war, the Korean war, the South African war and the Nile expedition as well as the fallen from Newfoundland before it joined Confederation and those who gave their lives serving where my dad served in the merchant marines.
    On November 11, 2005, the Year of the Veteran, the Governor General came to Parliament Hill to dedicate the Seventh Book of Remembrance, which is entitled “In Service of Canada”. On its pages are the names of those who died while serving Canada since 1947, with the exception of those who died in the Korean war. It includes the names of those Canadians who died on many peacekeeping missions. It is a permanent testament to the enormous risks taken by those who wear a uniform, both at home and abroad.
    I would be remiss if I did not remind my colleagues that the Seventh Book is unique, because it will never close. It will also commemorate those in future generations when they give their lives in the service of this great nation, Canada.
    We have been reminded all too well in recent weeks of the tremendous sacrifice made by our soldiers. I have visited them, both those who have returned without wounds and those who have returned seriously wounded. I have attended funerals as well.
    We have been inspired by their stories and the courage of their families and friends as they cope with the tragic loss of their loved ones. They are in our thoughts and they are most certainly in our prayers. May they take some measure of comfort knowing that our nation will not forget their service and sacrifice.
    This brings me to the issue of remembrance. In the past few years, especially during the Year of the Veteran, this year called Share the Story, I have been impressed by the increasing number of Canadians who gather at memorials and cenotaphs in their communities in honour of their local heroes.
    That is the essence of November 11 and it is also the inspiration of August 9, to express our gratitude to those who served our nation and to commemorate the sacrifice of those who lost their lives. In fact, if I have any concern at all regarding this bill, if any concerns have been expressed by the veterans community, and if it is in any danger whatsoever, it is because there may be a danger in obscuring the memorial we have on the 11th day of the 11th month at the 11th hour.
    I am also encouraged by the work that our schools are doing to stimulate interest in Canada's military history and heritage. In many schools it was commemorated during Remembrance Week. I would like to applaud the efforts of all those teachers who take the time to organize special learning experiences for their young students.
    As Canadian citizens we should not take for granted the sacrifice made by those who lay down their lives so that others may enjoy peace and freedom. It is our collective duty to remember them. They deserve no less.
    I think too that we also pay tribute to our veterans through the services and programs we provide to them and the way in which we do so. As my colleagues would know, veterans returning from the second world war had access to a veterans charter, a series of programs and services intended to aid their rehabilitation to civilian life. Over the years, those programs were adjusted in line with the changing needs of our aging veterans.
    However, these programs are not well suited to the needs of younger Canadian Forces veterans and earlier this year in April a new veterans charter was put in place. As the Minister of Veterans Affairs said at the time, “The new charter represents a new chapter in Canada's longstanding commitment to take care of those who take care of us at home and abroad”.
    We are also committed to keeping alive the memory of those whose noble and selfless sacrifice represent the very highest ideals of public service. On August 9 and on November 11 at the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them. We will remember them.
The Acting Speaker (Mr. Royal Galipeau): 
    Is the House ready for the question?
    Some hon. members: Question.
    The Acting Speaker (Mr. Royal Galipeau): The question is on the motion. Is it the pleasure of the House to adopt the motion?
    Some hon. members: Agreed.
    The Acting Speaker (Mr. Royal Galipeau): I declare the motion carried. Accordingly the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

    (Motion agreed to, bill read the second time and referred to a committee)

 
If I may quote......
von Garvin said:
     I for one believe that we should keep November 11 as our ONLY military day of recognition...where all present, past, living, dead military folks who have and are contributing to our security are honoured and recognized. I do not believe we should dilute the importance of this day...to have a Peacekeepers Day is a BAD idea.
 
From the Senate, 22 Nov 06
http://tinyurl.com/u47he

Georgina Fane Pope
Bronze Bust in Memory of Contribution to the Army Nursing Service and Medical Corps
Hon. Percy Downe: It is with great pleasure that I celebrate the national recognition of a daughter of Prince Edward Island, Georgina Pope.

A bronze bust of Pope has been erected to commemorate her contribution to Canadian military history as part of the new Valiants Memorial in Confederation Square in downtown Ottawa. This national monument was unveiled on November 5, 2006, as part of Veterans' Week. The memorial honours 14 Canadians for their service during five separate wars.

(1340)

Georgina Fane Pope is fondly remembered as the first permanent member of the Canadian Army Nursing Service, and has greatly contributed to Canadian military service.

Georgina Pope, daughter of William Pope, a Father of Confederation, was born in Charlottetown in 1862. As a member of a prominent Island family, Pope could have easily settled into the expected lifestyle of the times. However, Pope had far greater aspirations. Her journey began at the Bellevue School of Nursing in New York, where she received her medical training. She remained in the United States until 1899, when she volunteered for nursing service in the Boer War. Georgina Pope, as senior nurse, and three other nurses were members of Canada's first contingent to South Africa where they served north of Cape Town. After the initial five months, Georgina Pope and another nurse headed further north, where they took control of a military hospital that had been ravaged by disease. After a year of emotional and physical hardships in South Africa, Ms. Pope returned to Canada.

Georgina Pope returned to South Africa in 1902. This time she headed a group of eight Canadian nurses, which was known as the official Canadian Army Nursing Services, part of the Canadian Army Medical Corps. Ms. Pope and her nursing colleagues remained in South Africa until the end of the war.

In 1903, Georgina Pope was recognized for her service in the field when she was the first Canadian awarded the Royal Red Cross by Queen Victoria.

In 1906, Georgina Pope was appointed to the permanent forces in Halifax, as part of the Canadian Army Medical Corps. After only two years in this position, in 1908, she became the first person to earn the position of Matron of the Canadian Army Medical Corps. Several years later, Ms. Pope returned overseas to assist the efforts of the First World War. She was stationed in Canadian military hospitals in both England and France until the end of 1918. She then returned to Charlottetown where she died in 1938.

The inscription on the wall below the monument in Confederation Square captures the spirit of the new memorial:

No day shall ever erase you from the memory of time.

All Canadians and Prince Edward Islanders can be proud of the dedication and service given to Canada by Georgina Pope.
 
From 24 November:
Ms. Jean Crowder (Nanaimo—Cowichan, NDP):  
    Mr. Speaker, I have two sets of petitions to present.
    The first petition calls upon the Canadian government to immediately withdraw Canadian troops from Afghanistan and to develop an independent foreign policy that promotes world peace and ecological sustainability and to grant residence to American war resistors.
    The second set of petitions is also about Canada's role in Afghanistan. The petitioners call upon the Government of Canada to begin the withdrawal of Canadian Forces from the counter-insurgency mission in southern Afghanistan.
-----------------------------------------
Status of Women
Mrs. Nina Grewal (Fleetwood—Port Kells, CPC):  
    Mr. Speaker, hon. members will know that tomorrow, November 25, is the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women.
    I would like to take this opportunity to express my wholehearted support for efforts around the world to bring an end to the cruel and inhumane violence inflicted on women.
    Could the Minister of International Cooperation tell us what our government is doing for women in developing countries?

Hon. Josée Verner (Minister of International Cooperation and Minister for la Francophonie and Official Languages, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, I want this House to know that Canada has been actively dealing with this issue.
    Take for example our mission in Afghanistan, where women have suffered greatly under the rule of the Taliban. Through our mission, we have already helped the Afghan people achieve progress in asserting their rights and taking control of their own future. Twenty seven per cent of members in the new Afghan Parliament are women and 75% of micro loans have been made to women. Women have access to health care, legal aid and literacy services, not to mention access to schooling for young girls. I have—
---------------------------

 
Mr. Von Scarlett ;>) My wife loves your Mil Exp line " Apparently, not enough. Or too much. Depends on who's talking" She has her Masters and is getting the same response from HR people. Due to my postings she was not able to get started in her career field until into her 30's.Thanks for a Saturday morning smile.

Allen
 
If we are going to go down this route then you can also get valueable info from the Commons and Senate Defence Committees:

Commons Committee  http://tinyurl.com/y45arp

Senate Committee      http://tinyurl.com/y2k8qf

I haven't followed the Senate committee much but the Commons committee has had some very good "witnesses" such as Hillier, O'Connor and Leslie.
 
From 27 November 2006:

Hon. Jim Karygiannis (Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.): 
    Mr. Speaker, I realize how difficult this must be for the minister. Just today we had two soldiers killed in Afghanistan and tomorrow or the next day their remains will be brought home, draped in a Canadian flag and a nation will be very thankful of the work that they were doing in that part of the world, not a nation of nations, but a nation. I am sure that the minister will join me in recognizing that we are paying respect to them as a nation for the work that they are doing in fighting for human rights, justice and peace around the world.
    I am wondering what we tell the parents of the two soldiers who are coming back. Do we say that this is a nation which is grateful to your sons and daughters or is this a nation of nations which is respectful to your sons and daughters? I am wondering if the minister will share with us the exact expression that he is going to use when he meets those two families.
Hon. Peter MacKay: 
    Mr. Speaker, I know that all members would share in our gratitude and our remorse, and our great thanks on behalf of a grieving nation to those families who have lost sons and daughters. It is the ultimate sacrifice in defence of not only our country but the values that we stand for: freedom, democracy, respect for the rule of law, and respect for human rights. These are the very motivations which led us to embark on this mission in Afghanistan with other UN countries as part of a NATO backed mission.
    While tragedy has befallen these soldiers, this is not a time to mix the issues or to somehow skew our gratitude as a country. Quebec is very much a part of this nation, very much a part of the mourning that will follow. To that extent, I know I join the member opposite and all members of the House in expressing our great gratitude and share with the families our thoughts and our prayers at this most difficult time.
 
Captain (Army)  Scarlet said:
 From 27 November 2006:

Hon. Jim Karygiannis (Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.): 
  Mr. Speaker   ....  

I am wondering what we tell the parents of the two soldiers who are coming back. Do we say that this is a nation which is grateful to your sons and daughters or is this a nation of nations which is respectful to your sons and daughters? I am wondering if the minister will share with us the exact expression that he is going to use when he meets those two families.

While two hundred and sixty odd parliamentarians may have deserved that little shot, those soldiers and their families certainly did not. Shame.
 
Captain (Army)  Scarlet said:
I am wondering what we tell the parents of the two soldiers who are coming back. Do we say that this is a nation which is grateful to your sons and daughters or is this a nation of nations which is respectful to your sons and daughters?

what a stupid idiot. 

But then he did support Volpe in the early going
http://www.karygiannismp.com/spip/article.php3?id_article=300
until Hezbollah v Israel broke out.
http://www.karygiannismp.com/spip/article.php3?id_article=334
 
The Hon. Jim Karygiannis  is Liberal Member for Scarborugh Agincourt. Here is his contact info...

Ottawa
Phone: (613) 992-4501
Fax: (613) 995-1612
EMail: Karygiannis.J@parl.gc.ca
Web Site:* www.karygiannismp.com/ 

Constituency Offices
3850 Finch Ave East, Suite 206
Scarborough, Ontario
M1T 3T6
Telephone: (416) 321-5454
Fax: (416) 321-5456
 

Perhaps members would like to contact Mr Karygiannis and share their thoughts on his latest elocution, mixing up the deaths of two Canadian servicemen with unrelated politcal meanderings (intended, no doubt, to score gratuitous points with the electorate), whilst, I might add, collecting an ample salary from the Canadian taxpayer.

Anywho, just a thought....
 
For Hansard-geeks, here are two important debates about the Afghan mission.

'Take note debate' during early stages of Operation Archer, November 15, 2005.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=38&Ses=1&DocId=2110734#SOB-1471141
(hit ctrl+F "Afghanistan")

The famous '2009 extension debate' that split the Commons, May 17, 2006.

http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Language=E&Mode=1&Parl=39&Ses=1&DocId=2215122
(hit ctrl+F "Afghanistan" a few times)
 
From Hansard (House of Commons), 28 Nov 06
Direct link to statement

Mr. Yvon Godin (Acadie—Bathurst, NDP): 
    Mr. Speaker, as the member for Acadie—Bathurst, I rise in the House to mark the deaths of two Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan, Chief Warrant Officer Bobby Girouard, 46, originally from Bathurst, New Brunswick, and Corporal Albert Storm, both with the battle group, First Battalion of the Royal Canadian Regiment, based in Petawawa, Ontario. They were killed yesterday by a suicide bomber while travelling in their armoured car.  These deaths are a reminder of the daily danger faced by the military at work both in Canada and abroad.  On behalf of the NDP caucus and myself, I offer my sincere condolences to the families of Chief Warrant Officer Bobby Girouard and Corporal Albert Storm, to their friends and the military community.


From Hansard (Senate), 28 Nov 06
Direct link to statement

The Late Chief Warrant Officer Robert Girouard
The Late Corporal Albert Storm
Silent Tribute

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, before we begin, I invite you to rise and observe a minute of silence in memory of Chief Warrant Officer Robert Girouard and Corporal Albert Storm, who were killed tragically yesterday while serving their country in Afghanistan.

Thank you, honourable senators.

Honourable senators then stood in silent tribute.
 
From Hansard (House of Commons), 29 Nov 06

http://tinyurl.com/uumtp

Hon. Andy Scott (Fredericton, Lib.): 
    Mr. Speaker, Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan tried to put aside the tragic deaths of their comrades for a few hours yesterday as musicians from across the country entertained them.

    Two eminent artists from the greater Fredericton region, Canadian Idol contestant Casey LeBlanc and Matchstick Mike Bidlake, performed at the three hour concert.

    This event provided an important reprieve, and I am pleased Casey and Mike joined so many other entertainers to support the troops. They will undoubtedly return to Canada and spread the word about the great work done by our soldiers.

    Before the concert, they paused to remember Chief Warrant Officer Bobby Girouard of Bathurst, his battalion's regimental sergeant-major, and Corporal Albert Storm, who were killed Monday in a suicide bomb attack.

    We cannot thank them enough for their lives of bravery and honour. We offer our condolences to their families and to their communities.



http://tinyurl.com/y7uaea


Afghanistan 

Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, at the NATO summit which wrapped up today in Riga, Latvia, member countries all agreed that their key priority is contributing to peace and stability in Afghanistan and pledged that NATO troops would stay as long as it takes to bring peace to the country.

    Can the Prime Minister explain what this NATO commitment means for Canada?

Hon. Lawrence Cannon (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, with regard to NATO's priority and the mission in Afghanistan, as we all know, our allies greatly appreciate the efforts and sacrifices being made by Canada and Canadians to help the people of Afghanistan. Progress was of course made during the summit, by our Prime Minister, in particular, who did a wonderful job at this meeting.

Mr. Gilles Duceppe (Laurier—Sainte-Marie, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, the mission of Canadian troops in Afghanistan will end in February 2009.

    Can the minister assure us that the Prime Minister clearly indicated that he will not prolong the mission beyond that date without first obtaining the consent of the House of Commons?

Hon. Lawrence Cannon (Minister of Transport, Infrastructure and Communities, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, some progress has been made, which is what matters to this side of the House. This progress was made together with our allies. We successfully cut down on a number of restrictions previously in place. We were able to increase development assistance, and other NATO countries pledged to work towards the same goal. All signs are that the Canadian initiative is bearing fruit.

Mr. Claude Bachand (Saint-Jean, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister knows that he cannot withdraw troops from Afghanistan without giving his allies reasonable notice.

    Knowing that the mandate of the Canadian mission in Afghanistan ends in February 2009, should the Prime Minister not be very clear with his partners and tell them, right now, that he has no mandate to extend the presence of Canadian troops in Afghanistan after this date of February 2009?

Mr. Deepak Obhrai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister was very clear. Any deployment anywhere will be brought in front of the House of Commons, as was the deployment motion that was brought to extend it until 2009. He has been very clear that the House of Commons is where he will bring the motion and I can assure the member that the Prime Minister will keep his word.

Mr. Claude Bachand (Saint-Jean, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister deplores that other NATO members present in Afghanistan are not helping Canadian troops who are based in the south.

    Is it not all the more important, in that context, to indicate to his allies that they cannot assume that Canada will continue to pursue its efforts and to tell them, right now, that they have to plan to replace our troops after February 2009?

Mr. Deepak Obhrai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, there was progress made in Riga and it was a step in the right direction. The removal of national caveats is a very welcome development as it will enable increased troop mobility in Afghanistan.

    We welcome as well the willingness of allies in Riga to deploy troops to the south to reinforce our Canadian troops.

*  *  *



http://tinyurl.com/yxo8y6

Afghanistan 

Ms. Caroline St-Hilaire (Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, BQ): 
    NATO member states have confirmed they will maintain their military presence in Afghanistan. However, the humanitarian aspect of this operation seems to have been largely forgotten at the conference.

    Can the Prime Minister tell us how he tried to convince his allies to discuss the humanitarian aspect of the NATO mission in Afghanistan during the summit?


Mr. Deepak Obhrai (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister, with NATO allies, reinforced the commitment to help Afghanistan with reconstruction. We have an approach there that takes reconstruction into account. The Riga summit, through the communiqué, has even asked for the regional countries to come along and help in the reconstruction of Afghanistan.

    We know this is a priority. The reconstruction of Afghanistan is a must. That is what NATO is concentrating on as well.


Ms. Caroline St-Hilaire (Longueuil—Pierre-Boucher, BQ): 
    Mr. Speaker, all rhetoric aside, will the Prime Minister agree that re-establishing the necessary balance between the military and humanitarian aspects of the mission in Afghanistan is crucial to counteracting Afghans' disillusionment with the international community and the Afghan central government?

Hon. Josée Verner (Minister of International Cooperation and Minister for la Francophonie and Official Languages, CPC): 
    Mr. Speaker, I would like to remind the member that one of the first things our government did when we were elected was our Prime Minister's announcement of increased funding for reconstruction in Afghanistan. That is much more than the Liberal government committed to doing to help with reconstruction in Afghanistan. In addition, we have extended our commitment to 2011.

*  *  *


 
In the Senate, 29 Nov 06
http://www.parl.gc.ca/39/1/parlbus/chambus/senate/deb-e/055db_2006-11-29-E.htm?Language=E&Parl=39&Ses=1

Gagetown—Testing of Agent Orange and Agent Purple—Response to Reports
Hon. Norman K. Atkins: I have one question for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. It deals with Agent Orange and Camp Gagetown.

Two reports have been released in almost six months. As a result of those reports, the Minister of Veterans Affairs has indicated that they will deal with the legitimate applications with regard to the effects of Agent Orange on certain individuals.

Can the Leader of the Government in the Senate inform me as to whether the government has followed through on that undertaking? If so, how many people have been compensated?

Hon. Marjory LeBreton (Leader of the Government): I thank the honourable senator for his question. He has asked questions on this very serious matter on previous occasions.

Minister Thompson is currently involved in an ongoing process with the families and the people who live in the CFB Gagetown area. I know that the last time he spoke of the subject in my presence there were a number of issues that still had to be addressed.

On the basis of the honourable senator's question, I will go back to my colleague the Minister of Veterans Affairs, Mr. Thompson, and ask for an update on where this file is at the moment.

 
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