Need Advice - Reporting a Possible Lying Applicant

[SOES_vet]

After searching around this site, and reading some CF policies, I realize that the best course of action I should take, is to probably talk to the people at my local CFRC, but I also wanted to throw this out here as well to get some opinions.

So here is the situation. Someone I know, very personally, informed me of that he suffer from a psychiatric condition. I also know this person to be a pathological liar(another problem he has). In fact, this person was unceremoniously booted from this forum for his imagined "warrior" adventures. I also know this person may be applying to the CF, and I am legitimately concerned that he will withhold his psychiatric condition, from the medical staff, because I believe that he has done this before when he was previously enrolled in the CF as a NCM of the primary reserves. I believe he now wants to apply as an Officer.

Here is where I need some advice:

1) I don't have any solid proof of him telling me all of this, other than my memories of our conversation, which I am sure he will deny. As a result, I don't know if I have any grounds to report anything. Do I?

2) Other than trying to talk to someone from the CFRC, is there any other avenues I should explore?

3) Am I over-stepping any boundaries here? I haven't even done BMOQ and I am wondering if me trying to report someone is in some way inappropriate? I also recognize that some people could abuse any type of reporting system, so I want to make it clear that I am just doing this because I am legitimately concerned about having someone, who is not mentally fit, serving in the CF for the safety, and integrity of everyone.

Hope some of you can help

Thanks
SOES_Vet

 

[George Wallace]

Perhaps you will be lucky and he fills in his application and uses you as a Reference. 

There isn't much else you can do.  The Recruiters will have him fill out the application and interview him.  There is where he will likely provide a number of inconsistencies that should attract the attention of a skilled Recruiter and the alarm bells are raised.  Don't forget that he also has to have BackCheck done and that can also illuminate problems with his integrity.

A liar is a thief.  A person who steals your trust.  The CF doesn't need this type of person, especially if they are applying as an officer.

 

[Staff Weenie]

George, sadly I cannot agree with your assessment of CFRC's capabilities. We had an NCM with some serious personality disorder issues, and a severe allery to honesty. In a matter of a few years he racked up several RW's and a C&P, and countless hours were put into delaing with his threats and attempts to blackmail people. He went to the CFRC for a component transfer and commissioning as an Infantry Officer. We called the CFRC and detailed his behaviour. We offered to send his file over for their review. We insisted they needed to know the info. They outright refused to listen, or review the material. In the end, he was removed from training, and thrown out of the CF - all at a great expense to the taxpayer. Had CFRC payed attention, this wouldn't have happened, and we would have been able to release him after he would have inevitably breached his C&P.

 

[George Wallace]

George, sadly I cannot agree with your assessment of CFRC's capabilities. We had an NCM with some serious personality disorder issues, and a severe allery to honesty. In a matter of a few years he racked up several RW's and a C&P, and countless hours were put into delaing with his threats and attempts to blackmail people. He went to the CFRC for a component transfer and commissioning as an Infantry Officer. We called the CFRC and detailed his behaviour. We offered to send his file over for their review. We insisted they needed to know the info. They outright refused to listen, or review the material. In the end, he was removed from training, and thrown out of the CF - all at a great expense to the taxpayer. Had CFRC payed attention, this wouldn't have happened, and we would have been able to release him after he would have inevitably breached his C&P.

I agree with you, as I too have seen/known persons who have been extreme manipulators of the truth who have made it into the CF, the most recent only within the last year (and as an officer at that).  I was trying to qualify my statement with "a skilled Recruiter" as well as taking the tack that SOES_vet would not have much recourse, other than if the "liar" were to use him as a Reference. 

 

[Staff Weenie]

As a sidebar to this issue, I cannot understand why when a person does a CT, their pers file doesn't follow them! We've inherited some serious problems over the years, and I've seen some horrid troops head to the Regs - if we were only allowed to see their pers files prior to the CT, that could end the problem.

 

[SOES_vet]

Perhaps you will be lucky and he fills in his application and uses you as a Reference. 

There isn't much else you can do.  The Recruiters will have him fill out the application and interview him.  There is where he will likely provide a number of inconsistencies that should attract the attention of a skilled Recruiter and the alarm bells are raised.  Don't forget that he also has to have BackCheck done and that can also illuminate problems with his integrity.

A liar is a thief.  A person who steals your trust.  The CF doesn't need this type of person, especially if they are applying as an officer.

Hummm.

I must confess, I am a bit miffed that it would appear that there is nothing I can actively do. But if that is the name of the game, I guess, that is just it.

@ Staff Weenie - I will say, I am shocked that someone who was having serious issues within the ranks would have the gall to apply as an Infantry Officer! Then again, you did say they have a serious personality disorder.

As  for this individual using me as a reference... I don't think he would be that dumb. I recently confronted him about some of his serious misuses of adjectives, and his actions on this site. Either way, like you said, something may/will come out. He is a pretty toxic individual and I am sure he has a paper trail somewhere.

Thanks for the replies thus far!  :nod:

*edited for spelling

 

[chrisf]

As a sidebar to this issue, I cannot understand why when a person does a CT, their pers file doesn't follow them! We've inherited some serious problems over the years, and I've seen some horrid troops head to the Regs - if we were only allowed to see their pers files prior to the CT, that could end the problem.

Wait, your pers file doesn't follow you? I was under the (mistaken?) impression that your pers file was your pers file for life?

 

[PuckChaser]

Wait, your pers file doesn't follow you? I was under the (mistaken?) impression that your pers file was your pers file for life?

The pers file isn't reviewed for the CT process, just your quals and anything in EMAA/Peoplesoft. Its a two way street though, I've seen some horrible pers end up in the PRes after CTing from the RegF.

 

[chrisf]

The file does follow you to the new unit though?

 

[dangerboy]

The file does follow you to the new unit though?

When I did a CT my reserve pers file did not follow me.  Of course this was back in 93 so things are probably differant.

 

[the 48th regulator]

When I did a CT my reserve pers file did not follow me.  Of course this was back in 93 so things are probably differant.

We kept it to protect your reputation..... 

dileas

tess

 

[Stoker]

I believe starting soon a CT will be based on your last few PER's. That should change things to the better somewhat.

 

[CountDC]

When I did a CT my reserve pers file did not follow me.  Of course this was back in 93 so things are probably differant.

even in 93 your file should have followed you and been placed at the beginning of your reg f pers file.  Of course it would have depended on the reg f clerk receiving it how much of the file made it and how much was eaten by the shredder.  It was not uncommon for entire files to disappear as the clerk felt that the reserve crap was not needed (almost happened to my file until another clerk stepped in and saved it).

I think the recruiting centre should be looking at the files prior to processing the members in to the regs.  As for regs to pres - doesn't the reserve unit have to agree to accept the member prior to the ct or did that change?  Perhaps they should request to see the file prior to agreeing to take the member in.

 

[George Wallace]

....  As for regs to pres - doesn't the reserve unit have to agree to accept the member prior to the ct or did that change?  Perhaps they should request to see the file prior to agreeing to take the member in.

Yes.  Reserve unit CO's have to approve accepting the member, and then it is passed up for Area approval.

 

[Trick]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but wouldn't the psychiatric condition come up in the medical? They also do a medical history check. I would have enough faith in the system that someone who's just 100% rotten wouldn't make it through- especially these days.

 

[kawa11]

Someone I know, very personally, informed me of that he suffer from a psychiatric condition. I also know this person to be a pathological liar(another problem he has). In fact, this person was unceremoniously booted from this forum for his imagined "warrior" adventures. I also know this person may be applying to the CF, and I am legitimately concerned that he will withhold his psychiatric condition, from the medical staff, because I believe that he has done this before when he was previously enrolled in the CF as a NCM of the primary reserves. I believe he now wants to apply as an Officer.

I don't have any solid proof of him telling me all of this, other than my memories of our conversation, which I am sure he will deny. As a result, I don't know if I have any grounds to report anything. Do I?

Am I over-stepping any boundaries here? I haven't even done BMOQ and I am wondering if me trying to report someone is in some way inappropriate? I also recognize that some people could abuse any type of reporting system, so I want to make it clear that I am just doing this because I am legitimately concerned about having someone, who is not mentally fit, serving in the CF for the safety, and integrity of everyone.

Firstly, I'm not in the CF nor am I a social worker, HR, psychiatrist, etc.

If the person is a pathological liar, how can you be sure they weren't lying about said condition?
Related to that: If they were able to function in the CF reserves is it possible that this condition is something that doesn't exist or may not hurt their ability to function?

Is the condition something that could be a matter of concern to the person or the people immediately surrounding the person? ie. untreated violent schizophrenia? homocidal/sexual sublimination?
Or is it something less extreme: they have treatable depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, treatable paranoia, etc?

NOTE: These are just questions to ask yourself not to be answered in an open forum.

If you're genuinely concerned, there's no harm in calling the CFRC anonymously. Police or mental health professionals is another route.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Perhaps I'm wrong, but wouldn't the psychiatric condition come up in the medical? They also do a medical history check. I would have enough faith in the system that someone who's just 100% rotten wouldn't make it through- especially these days.

It's been more than a couple of decades since I had any direct involvement with recruit medicals and it is likely that many things have changed.  However, the "medical history check" is still probably the same - asking the applicant if he has had any previous medical history of "X".  There is no central repository of all personal medical information that can be accessed and thus verify if the individual was telling the truth.  There is a likelihood that something may be uncovered during the physical examination or by noticing unusual behaviour during the encounter, but that is about it. 

Not all unusual behavior is a "psychiatric condition" and despite an increasing trend (especially if a drug company can develop a product to deal with it) to provide a medical sounding name for everything, sometimes it is just unusual behaviour, idiosyncrasies.  Such people can be usually capable of fully functioning regardless of the social or work setting despite having personality traits that may be outside the accepted norm.  Even when such unusual behaviour may reach the level of an accepted "psychiatric condition", in a military setting it may often be considered being "unable to adapt to military life" and results in administrative (with no medical input) or disiplinary action.

 

[Fanfreluche]

i personally believe people who lie usually end up tangled in there own web of lie and pay for it at the end.... 
this is the army.. i very much doubt any mental illness or liers can remain hiden very long,
i think it take a strong heart and a clean soul to do this job

 

[57Chevy]

I don't have any solid proof

1. You are not a doctor so you cannot make any diagnosis of his alledged mental state.

other than my memories of our conversation

2. He could tell you anything that he wants to.

I don't know if I have any grounds to report anything. Do I?

3. I think you should mind your own business.

Am I over-stepping any boundaries here?

4. Definitely so !

I haven't even done BMOQ and I am wondering if me trying to report someone is in some way inappropriate? 

5. Yes it is.

I also recognize that some people could abuse any type of reporting system, so I want to make it clear that I am just doing this because I am legitimately concerned

6. Are you ?

about having someone, who is not mentally fit, serving in the CF for the safety, and integrity of everyone.

1. You are not a doctor so you cannot make any diagnosis of his alledged mental state.

I also wanted to throw this out here as well to get some opinions..

1. You are not a doctor so you cannot make any diagnosis of his alledged mental state.

this person was unceremoniously booted from this forum for his imagined "warrior" adventures.

I don't think you should be coming here putting someone down even if that member was banned.
Where do you get off ?

I also know this person may be applying to the CF

He may be applying. He may be pulling your leg too.

and I am legitimately concerned that he will withhold his psychiatric condition, from the medical staff

1. You are not a doctor so you cannot make any diagnosis of his alledged mental state.

because I believe that he has done this before when he was previously enrolled in the CF as a NCM of the primary reserves. I believe he now wants to apply as an Officer. 

And you are allowed to believe whatever you like.

Unlike you,
At least he has gained some kind of experience wearing the uniform.

Most importantly is #1, (You are not a doctor so you cannot make any diagnosis of his alledged mental state.)
and #3 ( I think you should mind your own business.)

Furthermore, you sound like a busybody meddling in the affairs of others.
Are you sure you want to join the military ?

 

[SOES_vet]

Unlike you,
At least he has gained some kind of experience wearing the uniform.

I'm working on that.

Most importantly is #1, (You are not a doctor so you cannot make any diagnosis of his alledged mental state.)

Yes, I am indeed not a medical doctor. Yet I feel I don't need to be a medical doctor to feel concerned about a possible dangerous situation. This is why I asked for more input. Furthermore, he told me of his mental condition, and to be quite frank I don't know what to believe.

and #3 ( I think you should mind your own business.)

Furthermore, you sound like a busybody meddling in the affairs of others.

I am sorry if this all came off that way. I just felt uneasy about this situation, but I am glad I posted because I also gained some input, and knowledge from this forum that I did not have before. Which I feel is valuable.

Your opinion is also duly noted.

Are you sure you want to join the military ?

Yes. I do want to join the military. My reasons, and motivations for joining, run far deeper than a single inquiry questioning it.