New Aircraft in the Offing?
- Thread starter GGboy
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-Dragoon, my gut feel is that we (1 Wing) will operate "composite" squadrons (i.e. 2 a/c types, or more) at many of the units. This was similar to what used to occur at 402/408/427/430 with Kiowa and Twin Hueys, and at 450 Sqn (my alma matter) with Chinooks and Twins flying RCMP SERT (albeit a short overlap of about a year and a bit). Here's my total guess at how things will bed down
403 Gagetown - CH146 OTU (ops trg unit) and TALC (Med/Hy lift) Ops
408 Edmonton - CH146 Ops unit and CU161 (Sperwer and follow on TUAV) OTU and Ops
427 Petawawa - CH146 SOA, TALC SOA (and TALC OTU?)
430 Valcartier - TALC Ops and CU161 Ops
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Herewith my first post on this forum:
My bet would be that the 20 machines would work out to either 4 x 5 (with one responsible for OTU), 3 x 6 (with two attached to an OTU) or 2 x 9 (with two attached to an OTU). 403 should be ending CH146 OTU soon as the 412 (bailed CF machines?) will be used for advanced training in Southport. I suspect that the idea of composite squadrons is right, a mix of Griffons and Chinooks. Far better would be to also address the shortcomings of the Griff as a recce and armed helo and get a batch of ARHs from Bell. These aircraft could provide cover for the larger Chinooks.
403 Gagetown - CH146 OTU (ops trg unit) and TALC (Med/Hy lift) Ops
408 Edmonton - CH146 Ops unit and CU161 (Sperwer and follow on TUAV) OTU and Ops
427 Petawawa - CH146 SOA, TALC SOA (and TALC OTU?)
430 Valcartier - TALC Ops and CU161 Ops
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Herewith my first post on this forum:
My bet would be that the 20 machines would work out to either 4 x 5 (with one responsible for OTU), 3 x 6 (with two attached to an OTU) or 2 x 9 (with two attached to an OTU). 403 should be ending CH146 OTU soon as the 412 (bailed CF machines?) will be used for advanced training in Southport. I suspect that the idea of composite squadrons is right, a mix of Griffons and Chinooks. Far better would be to also address the shortcomings of the Griff as a recce and armed helo and get a batch of ARHs from Bell. These aircraft could provide cover for the larger Chinooks.
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PMars, welcome. Like Zoomie mentioned, even CH146 bailed to Southport as B412CF's of some configuration would still only instruct basic rotary, albeit now on the 412 (I understand there will be some intro NVG flying at BHS) but the tactical portion is what 403 would continue to instruct.
Cheers,
Duey
Cheers,
Duey
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PMars, I believe that the C27J/CASA295/whatever was supporsed to provide both the FWSAR and Northern tpt capabilities (i.e. replacing Buff, SAR Herc and Twotter all in one...shades of the CH146 doing the job of the CH147, CH135, CH136, CH118 :
) uh-oh......
Cheers,
Duey
) uh-oh......Cheers,
Duey
I can see the problem in many cases of replacing several aircraft with only one, but it seems that c-27j is more capable then all 3 of the aircraft it's replacing...which was clearly not the case with the Griffon, as several folks on this board have pointed out. Is the C-27j less capable in some respects? Short field performance? Overall numbers?
Note-Clearly the C-27j does not outperform the Herc, put it does not need to have the same lift capabilities for SAR right?
Note-Clearly the C-27j does not outperform the Herc, put it does not need to have the same lift capabilities for SAR right?
>PMars, I believe that the C27J/CASA295/whatever was supporsed to provide both the FWSAR and Northern tpt capabilities (i.e. replacing Buff, SAR Herc and Twotter all in one...shades of the CH146 doing the job of the CH147, CH135, CH136, CH118 ) uh-oh......
Cheers,
Duey
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Yes, I understand that. However, the 15 C27J mentioned in the article would not be enough to cover off the four Twotters with 440. I figure the 15 aircraft would work out to four with 413, three with 424, three with 435 (or some other sqauadron --- 429??) at Winnipeg, and five with 442 which would also do the conversion training. That all adds up to 15. The budget spoke about four aircraft to replace the Twotters which is behind my comment. In other words, why not 19 C27J?
The C27 or CN295 could certainly replace the Buff or Twotter and either could replace the Herk's SAR tasking.
There is an interesting conversation going on at CASR around whether or not the CF should even continue doing SAR in today's environment. [ducking from rounds ranging overhead...don't shoot the messenger...go read the site.] www.sfu.ca/casr
While on the subject of the Twotters, can anyone explain why the Twotter's nose has been painted black as on a/c 803?
Cheers,
Duey
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Yes, I understand that. However, the 15 C27J mentioned in the article would not be enough to cover off the four Twotters with 440. I figure the 15 aircraft would work out to four with 413, three with 424, three with 435 (or some other sqauadron --- 429??) at Winnipeg, and five with 442 which would also do the conversion training. That all adds up to 15. The budget spoke about four aircraft to replace the Twotters which is behind my comment. In other words, why not 19 C27J?
The C27 or CN295 could certainly replace the Buff or Twotter and either could replace the Herk's SAR tasking.
There is an interesting conversation going on at CASR around whether or not the CF should even continue doing SAR in today's environment. [ducking from rounds ranging overhead...don't shoot the messenger...go read the site.] www.sfu.ca/casr
While on the subject of the Twotters, can anyone explain why the Twotter's nose has been painted black as on a/c 803?
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I don't put much gump into what CSAR says. I find it to be much like those books you find in the dollar bin in the book store. Pretty pictures but not much fact. And that which is fact is out dated or speculation.
The Twotter has a role in itself that requres it to land in small communities and it is suited to the northern life. If it ain't broke, why try to fix it. by giving them aicracft we don't require.
The Herc as it is doesn't necesarilly land to do Sar missions. It is just a part of a Sar operation to drop people where needed quickly.
If we had the C27J would we require it to do transport or would the SAR kit be permanently mounted inside as per the cormorrant?
I would hate to see my trade loose a loadmaster posn, at the same time I would love to stop doing SAr changes.
The Twotter has a role in itself that requres it to land in small communities and it is suited to the northern life. If it ain't broke, why try to fix it. by giving them aicracft we don't require.
The Herc as it is doesn't necesarilly land to do Sar missions. It is just a part of a Sar operation to drop people where needed quickly.
If we had the C27J would we require it to do transport or would the SAR kit be permanently mounted inside as per the cormorrant?
I would hate to see my trade loose a loadmaster posn, at the same time I would love to stop doing SAr changes.
QUOTE: The Twotter has a role in itself that requres it to land in small communities and it is suited to the northern life. If it ain't broke, why try to fix it. by giving them aicracft we don't require.
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Well someone from 440 could clarify this but the Twotter isn't built anymore and my understanding is that ours are relatively hightime and have already been rewinged (can only be done once). Therefore, if it ain't broke, it soon will be. Therefore the intent to replace the aircraft sooner rather than later. Hence my observation that the FWNOR (fixed wing, northern) had not been addressed in the newspaper article about the new transport fleet.
There was a mention in another newspaper on the same topic that included an order for two AN-124. The An-124 dash 150 is proposed for series production of 50 aircraft. It would have new engines (although not western), EFIS, and some other improvements.
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Well someone from 440 could clarify this but the Twotter isn't built anymore and my understanding is that ours are relatively hightime and have already been rewinged (can only be done once). Therefore, if it ain't broke, it soon will be. Therefore the intent to replace the aircraft sooner rather than later. Hence my observation that the FWNOR (fixed wing, northern) had not been addressed in the newspaper article about the new transport fleet.
There was a mention in another newspaper on the same topic that included an order for two AN-124. The An-124 dash 150 is proposed for series production of 50 aircraft. It would have new engines (although not western), EFIS, and some other improvements.
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An update according to the Globe and Mail:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051008/DEFENCE08/TPNational/Canada
It seems that delays and additional costs will now occur and most likely the same conclusion will be drawn... Good one :
Mike
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051008/DEFENCE08/TPNational/Canada
It seems that delays and additional costs will now occur and most likely the same conclusion will be drawn... Good one :
Mike
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mjohnston39 said:An update according to the Globe and Mail:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20051008/DEFENCE08/TPNational/Canada
It seems that delays and additional costs will now occur and most likely the same conclusion will be drawn... Good one :
Mike
Oye vey, my head! :-\
Duey
