New Canadian Shipbuilding Strategy

[Navy_Pete]

In a perfect world, you'd have both Arctic icebreakers built by the same yard, using the same design, with presumably commensurate savings from doing so. Since it's been determined that either the schedule or perhaps dearth of voting being spread out in the most satisfactory manner (to the G's way of thinking), I wish that they had both been given to Davie and a 3rd AOR had been allotted to Seaspan by way of compensation.

Doing it in both yards definitely increases costs; even with the same design they have to redo all the detailed planning and manufacturing engineering to suit the specific facilities/processes used at Davie, so we're paying for the same thing to be done twice for each location. Additionally they haven't actually built anything there yet, so there is a huge efficiency penalty as part of that learning curve, and there may be some redesign required if the facilities don't allow for the same kind of block size as VSY.

Plus Davie had tens of millions in facility upgrades needed to come up to the 2010 NSS shipyard standard, so there will be a lag time to do all that. Those facilities wouldn't have been needed for their current work, so unless they did it anyway will be a while before they are ready to go.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Keeping the old CCG fleet floating and going as we wait...and wait...and wait for all those replacements Seaspan supposed to build somehow as it has the two JSS, the OOSV and one polar icebreaker also (somehow the "up to 16 Multi-Purpose Vessels to support a variety of missions, including light icebreaking, environmental response, and offshore search and rescue. These ships will be built by Vancouver Shipyards" Prime Minister announces renewal of Canadian Coast Guard fleet now seem to have been reduced to ten https://www.seaspan.com/building--have seen no official announcement):

1) "Canadian Coast Guard announces over $28 million in vessel maintenance contracts to shipyards across Canada"

Canadian Coast Guard announces over $28 million in vessel maintenance contracts to shipyards across Canada

Ensuring that the members of the Canadian Coast Guard have the equipment they need to keep Canada's waterways navigable and safe is a key priority for the Government of Canada. To help ensure that Canada's waterways remain open to allow for the free movement of people and goods, the Coast...

finance.yahoo.com

2) "Coast guard ship maintenance work coming to two B.C. shipyards"

Coast guard ship maintenance work coming to two B.C. shipyards

www.timescolonist.com

Mark
Ottawa

 

[YZT580]

The Amundsen is already in drydock for its major. That was announced months ago. Seems they try to take credit for doing something more than once rather than actually doing something new.

 

[Good2Golf]

…Seems they try to take credit for doing something more than once rather than actually doing something new.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

The Amundsen is already in drydock for its major. That was announced months ago. Seems they try to take credit for doing something more than once rather than actually doing something new.

rinse and repeat as required, have to wring every vote out of every dollar.

 

[Swampbuggy]

The Amundsen is already in drydock for its major. That was announced months ago. Seems they try to take credit for doing something more than once rather than actually doing something new.

I saw her at Welland a few weeks back. Came upon her by chance and I'm looking forward to getting a better look next time I go through there. First time I've seen one of that class in person. Impressive.

 

[Czech_pivo]

No surprises here. The first story of what I fully expect to be of many.

Military shipbuilding facing fresh delays as a result of COVID-19: procurement chief​

"warning of fresh delays in the delivery of already overdue warships"
"The shipbuilding projects ... are the ones where we probably are going to see cumulatively the largest impacts," he said, adding: "There's going to have to be a schedule adjustment."
"predicted a one-year delay in delivery of 15 new warships for the navy would add $2.3 billion to his current estimated cost of $77 billion, while a two-year delay would result in the fleet costing $4.8 billion more."

Ottawa's talks with Quebec shipyard to build much-needed icebreakers shrouded in fog

Questions are swirling over yet another delay in Ottawa's nearly $100-billion plan to rebuild the fleets of Canada's navy and coast guard -- only this time the delay isn't due to the stalled construction of a ship.

www.ctvnews.ca

There's a relatively easy solution to all of this (besides the Pandemic ending) and its implementing a 6 day work week and/or mandatory overtime in order to begin to get the schedule back on track. That is what is done in the business world (think auto industry as a prime example, prime example is Chrysler's old 'Plant 3' facility for years and years operated on a 6 day week scedule) and it does address the issue of meeting timelines and holding budgets. I highly doubt it will be done, the Unions have too much clout, management/government doesn't have the testicular fortitude to enforce it and the gravy train will continue and our navy will continue to rust out.

I've plainly laid out on here previously the reality of the impossible existing timelines and age of the Halifax's and the fact that our 12 Halifax's will NOT retire one a 1 to 1 ratio of a new CSC coming online. The 12 of them will be written off well before there will be 12 new operational CSC's.

 

[suffolkowner]

No surprises here. The first story of what I fully expect to be of many.

Military shipbuilding facing fresh delays as a result of COVID-19: procurement chief​

"warning of fresh delays in the delivery of already overdue warships"
"The shipbuilding projects ... are the ones where we probably are going to see cumulatively the largest impacts," he said, adding: "There's going to have to be a schedule adjustment."
"predicted a one-year delay in delivery of 15 new warships for the navy would add $2.3 billion to his current estimated cost of $77 billion, while a two-year delay would result in the fleet costing $4.8 billion more."

Ottawa's talks with Quebec shipyard to build much-needed icebreakers shrouded in fog

Questions are swirling over yet another delay in Ottawa's nearly $100-billion plan to rebuild the fleets of Canada's navy and coast guard -- only this time the delay isn't due to the stalled construction of a ship.

www.ctvnews.ca

There's a relatively easy solution to all of this (besides the Pandemic ending) and its implementing a 6 day work week and/or mandatory overtime in order to begin to get the schedule back on track. That is what is done in the business world (think auto industry as a prime example, prime example is Chrysler's old 'Plant 3' facility for years and years operated on a 6 day week scedule) and it does address the issue of meeting timelines and holding budgets. I highly doubt it will be done, the Unions have too much clout, management/government doesn't have the testicular fortitude to enforce it and the gravy train will continue and our navy will continue to rust out.

I've plainly laid out on here previously the reality of the impossible existing timelines and age of the Halifax's and the fact that our 12 Halifax's will NOT retire one a 1 to 1 ratio of a new CSC coming online. The 12 of them will be written off well before there will be 12 new operational CSC's.

The shipyards only work 5 days a week?

I find it hard to believe that we are even at the stage where the CSC is being delayed by 1 year or that it would cost $2.3B. Years ago I warned about the dangers of inflation eating away at the CSC budget but that is ridiculous. They can and have been ordering some long lead time items and there is lots of time to in the work schedule before they are too even start construction.

It wouldn't surprise me that there will be some serious management issues with the Halifax replacement or that we end up with only 12 CSC, although if we manage to get into some sort of continual build process that can be mitigated. We are paying the price for decades of mismanagement but at least there looks to be a light at the end of the tunnel here and the Made in Canada hopefully guarantees some continuation.

Still would have preferred that Seaspan built the third AOR/JSS and Davie the two Polar icebreakers as others have noted

 

[dapaterson]

I think the forecast of $2.3B is lifetime, inflated, not NPV.

 

[suffolkowner]

It looks like my favorite icebreaker project has finally found a new job, wonder if this is a long term thing, a trial run or just as needed? A long way to go from Tampa to Antartica but another case of the limited icebreaker capacity out there

"Two charter ships will support RSV Nuyina over the summer, the ice-strengthened heavy cargo ship Happy Dragon and a smaller icebreaker Aiviq."

Antarctic icebreaker launched in Hobart

"Aiviq (Alaskan Inuit for 'walrus'), currently in Hobart, is a 110-metre US icebreaking tug and supply vessel to provide additional icebreaking capability and undertake station refuelling."

New icebreaker RSV Nuyina heads south – Australian Antarctic Program (News 2021)

RSV Nuyina departs Hobart on first voyage to Antarctica

www.antarctica.gov.au

 

[Colin Parkinson]

It would be neat if one of our AOP's took part in a summer expedition to the Antarctic.

 

[MilEME09]

No surprises here. The first story of what I fully expect to be of many.

Military shipbuilding facing fresh delays as a result of COVID-19: procurement chief​

"warning of fresh delays in the delivery of already overdue warships"
"The shipbuilding projects ... are the ones where we probably are going to see cumulatively the largest impacts," he said, adding: "There's going to have to be a schedule adjustment."
"predicted a one-year delay in delivery of 15 new warships for the navy would add $2.3 billion to his current estimated cost of $77 billion, while a two-year delay would result in the fleet costing $4.8 billion more."

Ottawa's talks with Quebec shipyard to build much-needed icebreakers shrouded in fog

Questions are swirling over yet another delay in Ottawa's nearly $100-billion plan to rebuild the fleets of Canada's navy and coast guard -- only this time the delay isn't due to the stalled construction of a ship.

www.ctvnews.ca

There's a relatively easy solution to all of this (besides the Pandemic ending) and its implementing a 6 day work week and/or mandatory overtime in order to begin to get the schedule back on track. That is what is done in the business world (think auto industry as a prime example, prime example is Chrysler's old 'Plant 3' facility for years and years operated on a 6 day week scedule) and it does address the issue of meeting timelines and holding budgets. I highly doubt it will be done, the Unions have too much clout, management/government doesn't have the testicular fortitude to enforce it and the gravy train will continue and our navy will continue to rust out.

I've plainly laid out on here previously the reality of the impossible existing timelines and age of the Halifax's and the fact that our 12 Halifax's will NOT retire one a 1 to 1 ratio of a new CSC coming online. The 12 of them will be written off well before there will be 12 new operational CSC's.

Let's go one further, rotating shifts, 2 shifts per day, 7 days a week. With overlap, that's 14-15 hours of production per day. Could get us back on track I bet.

 

[Kirkhill]

Let's go one further, rotating shifts, 2 shifts per day, 7 days a week. With overlap, that's 14-15 hours of production per day. Could get us back on track I bet.

2 shifts a day
7 days a week
14 shifts per week

Current staffing
5 shifts per week

Where are you going to get/train the extra 9 to 10 shifts per week? A 200% increase in trained payroll.

 

[MilEME09]

2 shifts a day
7 days a week
14 shifts per week

Current staffing
5 shifts per week

Where are you going to get/train the extra 9 to 10 shifts per week? A 200% increase in trained payroll.

Well we have a lot of time till the CSC cuts steel, let's just start ramping up. Add some OT in the short term as well. Over all a 7 day schedule may seem like war time levels of production, but we could then roll into CSC, a Kingston replacement, refit, and start the cycle again.

 

[Czech_pivo]

2 shifts a day
7 days a week
14 shifts per week

Current staffing
5 shifts per week

Where are you going to get/train the extra 9 to 10 shifts per week? A 200% increase in trained payroll.

Moving from 5 days a week to 6 is a 20% increase, easy to implement and cost effective.

 

[dapaterson]

Other than labour laws, you're set.

 

[MilEME09]

Other than labour laws, you're set.

In what regard? By labour code you are actually only entitled to one 24 hour period off in a 7 days period of continuous work.

 

[dapaterson]

I stand corrected; NS Labour Code does include that provision (https://novascotia.ca/lae/employmentrights/docs/labourstandardscodeguide.pdf).

And it appears Irving tries to keep copies of their collective agreements off the internet. (The only thing I could find that alleges to be one appears to be a JavaScript file).

Any radical restructure of the normal work would require negotiation with their unions, and Irving's recurrent threats to lay off most of their workforce if they aren't provided sufficient federal contracts suggest that they're happy to stretch things out.

Almost as if the shipbuilding strategy is more of a regional economic support program with a potential side effect of possibly getting the CAF ships.

 

[FJAG]

The problem in stepping up the pace is finding enough skilled labour to fill the shifts and the extra days. B teams are frequently less efficient and output drops while expenses increase particularly for shifts that do not match Circadian rhythms.

The same happens when you start increasing hours per day and days per week for a given worker as you start having a loss of efficiency output per unit of time worked as workers become tired while at the same time you are paying overtime rates thereby dramatically escalating costs.

 

[Stoker]

No surprises here. The first story of what I fully expect to be of many.

Military shipbuilding facing fresh delays as a result of COVID-19: procurement chief​

"warning of fresh delays in the delivery of already overdue warships"
"The shipbuilding projects ... are the ones where we probably are going to see cumulatively the largest impacts," he said, adding: "There's going to have to be a schedule adjustment."
"predicted a one-year delay in delivery of 15 new warships for the navy would add $2.3 billion to his current estimated cost of $77 billion, while a two-year delay would result in the fleet costing $4.8 billion more."

Ottawa's talks with Quebec shipyard to build much-needed icebreakers shrouded in fog

Questions are swirling over yet another delay in Ottawa's nearly $100-billion plan to rebuild the fleets of Canada's navy and coast guard -- only this time the delay isn't due to the stalled construction of a ship.

www.ctvnews.ca

There's a relatively easy solution to all of this (besides the Pandemic ending) and its implementing a 6 day work week and/or mandatory overtime in order to begin to get the schedule back on track. That is what is done in the business world (think auto industry as a prime example, prime example is Chrysler's old 'Plant 3' facility for years and years operated on a 6 day week scedule) and it does address the issue of meeting timelines and holding budgets. I highly doubt it will be done, the Unions have too much clout, management/government doesn't have the testicular fortitude to enforce it and the gravy train will continue and our navy will continue to rust out.

I've plainly laid out on here previously the reality of the impossible existing timelines and age of the Halifax's and the fact that our 12 Halifax's will NOT retire one a 1 to 1 ratio of a new CSC coming online. The 12 of them will be written off well before there will be 12 new operational CSC's.

So are you insinuating that the yards responsible for the NSP will use Covid and the global interruption to the supply chain as an excuse to delay the projects and intentionally drive up costs or do you think these things do not exist?

Building a ship and building cars are a bit different don't you think? Do you really think workers will stand for working 6 days a week in such a job regardless of their unions. Its hard enough to now to get skilled labour let alone bring on extra shifts or mandatory overtime.

Do you know something I don't in regards to the Halifax Class lasting until we start to take delivery of the CSC? That's a pretty bold statement saying that all 12 ships will be written off before we have 12 operational CSC's. What do you base that on?